PTR 1.0.8 Patch Notes

Bugged Ra-Den Kill
It seems a group in China was able to defeat Ra-Den today due to a bug in the encounter, which may have been addressed by tonight's hotfixes. This did confirm that Ra-den does not die at the end of the encounter, which we assumed from the sound files.

Patch 5.2 Hotfixes: April 8
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
  • Zandalari Beast Handler is now properly seated in a saddle while riding a Direhorrn.

Raids, Dungeons, and Scenarios
  • Throne of Thunder
    • Giorgio's Caduceus of Pure Moods is no longer being awarded to Elemental and Restoration Shamans on Raid Finder difficulty or via bonus rolls.
    • Primordius
      • During the Primordius encounter, spells which dispel a single harmful effect (Sear Magic, Single Magic, or Mass Dispel) will no longer work if any of the positive effects are active on the target (Improved Synapses, Keen Eyesight, Thick Bones, Clear Mind, or Fully Mutated).
    • Ra-den
      • Fixed an issue that could prevent Ra-den from absorbing Essences of Anima/Vita as intended.
      • Engaging Ra-den now resets the cooldown on Reincarnation for Shamans.

Bug Fixes

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
WoW Subscriber Numbers and Content Release Speed
You're point? WoW is still doing well compared to it's aclaimed "killers" GW2, Tera and SWTOR all which went F2P except for GW2 which already was. I'm not seeing a single point in this whole OP.

Other than lost jobs? Or are they still employing the same amount of people that they did when they had 12 million?

The WoW development team has more members now than ever before!

You're seeing less time between content cycles as we continue to grow and essentially restructure our production pipeline, so that some designers within each WoW development team can focus on alternating patches. Mind you, there's no black-and-white divide in the team -- everyone's contributing in some way to each patch and expansion -- but we can have members from each team focused sharply on 5.3, while others are already working hard on 5.4 and beyond.(Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

WoW Changes Over Time
I think any new player who has been exposed to more than a couple of hours of online gaming would feel insulted by how stupidly easy it is. The only challenge is not falling asleep within 10 minutes of starting a session.
Any new player would probably try to understand what's going on, what is he/she supposed to do, how that particular class plays, familiarize himself/herself with the area where he/she's playing...

Generalizations like this one aren't really helpful in these discussions.

You mean about 1 afternoons work for a new intern? There have been literally dozens of constructive posts on how to do this. One very easy way of beginning to reimplement challenge to the levelling process is to re-introduce orange/red quests.
Changing anything in a game is not as simple as going in and changing numbers. It's easy to pull numbers out of thin air to make an argument look stronger, but the fact is, at the end of the day it's just made up numbers. (And there's also the underlying discussion if the leveling experience should be challenging for newcomers and veteran players alike, and so on).

Orange quests still exist. But keep in mind the color of the quest is only an indicator of how hard that quest will be based on your character level. If your character is level 40, and the quest you want to do is for level 44, it'll be displayed orange. While, if the quest is for level 30, it'll be grey.

Back in Vanilla WoW, if you were in, say, Eastern Plaguelands, at level 50, maybe you'd be able to take quests for levels 52 and 59, while one would be yellow, the other one would be displayed red. Now, since Eastern Plaguelands is a level 40-45 zone, you'll get quests within that level range.

I would have to dedicate myself to do challenge mode dungeons, as I would have to be online together with four other people. PvP is not challenging, only part of that which is challenging is high end arena and what do you know, you need time and dedication to get there. Soloing raids... is that really all that is left? In Rift you find challenge in almost everything you do, from zone events to normal dungeons.
You can also do the Brawler's Guild content, which is quite challenging (particularly at Rank 7 and above).

for example, once upon a time you had to play a class to really understand how to play it, all the little nuances
now, i honestly believe i could roll a lvl90 (insert class ive never played) and excel at it within minutes.

The game does a much better job these days to tell you the basic things about your class (such as the most important abilities of the talent spec you pick), if you pair that with the amount of online resources available, I wouldn't be surprised if someone can excel at a particular class in a short amount of time after playing with it.

On the other hand, shouldn't the fun of playing the game be at overcoming challenges rather than making the game be obscure at things like not telling you what Hit or Critical strike chance are for? In fact, do you think the raid content would be as difficult as it is these days (mechanic wise) if people were still trying to figure out obscure class mechanics?

Just curious to see what do you mean when you talk about challenges in the game. There's the artificial challenge (understanding what your character does because the game just isn't telling you) or killing an innately difficult raid boss (for which the argument of not having enough time doesn't really work, since you could argue that finding the time required to kill a heroic boss should be, in fact, considered part of that challenge you crave for). (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
What's the point of vengeance Why not just make tank abilities scale better with AP in tank spec with high threat modifier?
High threat modifiers were often invisible and confusing. We want tanks to care about damage not just spamming threat. (Source)
DPS specs scale with many stats (such as haste and crit). Tank damage (for the most part) scales from just Strength or Agi. (Source)
Prob with veng is tank swaps. Taunt not updated from vanilla. Gives prior tank's threat, but not his vengeance.
Because we want your attacks to matter, not just coasting on what the previous tank did. (Source)
I think what Oatz means is that Tank 1 has to stop attacking so he doesn't pull back from Tank 2 which just taunted.
Understand that we're not trying to make threat no longer a thing. We just don't want it to throttle the DPS. (Source)
Threat does matter. Tanks care about it+dmg. We don't like stopping attacks on switches, especially with high Veng.
You get half Vengeance from taunting. We think it's fine. (Source)

any chance of bringing back vengeance for pvp tanks?
Generally when tanks are having fun in PvP, nobody else is. (Source)

Do u believe that players now have to push to many buttons to effectively play their class? More buttons = less fun. Thoughts?
A rotation with say 4-5 core buttons and 1-2 cooldowns is ideal. It's the situational buttons that complicate things. (Source)
Consider that these days the expectation is for a different AE rotation than single-target. (Source)

Death Knight (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Vanilla class (Warrior) outshined in every area it excels by a (newer) DK class. WTG Guys.
So monks must be outshining DKs then? (Source)
DK's can dps all day long in Blood. Warriors? No. One or the other has to change, so maybe monks will shine more down the road
We don't like Unholy DKs sitting in Blood Presence. Frost generally could not afford to. (Source)
Does that mean you'll be adjusting Unholy DKs but not Frost?
That's the plan. Something like Sudden Doom requires Unholy Presence. Switch to Blood if you need the defenses. (Source)

DW frost CAN NOT dps in blood presence. I say it again: The changes made to DW and 2h frost in MOP, IS STUPID!
As I said, Frost can't sit in Blood Presence. Unholy can, and it's a concern for PvP. (Source)

Hunter (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
any chance on removing some hunter ability bloat in 6.0?(maybe before?) seems too many buttons since MoP
We tried to remove some before but still get "Bring back Eyes of the Beast!" requests. We'll try again. (Source)
If you don't want to use EOTB you don't have to, but having readiness means the class has to use it for bestDPS
Sure, but we could buff every shot to compensate and call it a day. Hunters have plenty of ways to demonstrate skill these days. (Source)
We think the core rotation buttons are fine. There are a LOT of situational hunter buttons though. (Source)
when I complain about bloat, I mean abilities that are part of my dps rotation, like Glaive, DireBeast, Crows, Stampede.
You have a passive option to Dire Beast. We could add one to the Crows row. Rapid Fire and Readiness could probably be pruned. (Source)
any change you make, you'll have a portion of the hunter base complaining, I wouldn't want to be on you shoes.
Yup. All the hunters happy with the number of buttons (or specific ones) won't say much until they are gone. (Source)

Priest (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
If mass dispel's defensive utility is too powerful, then increase the mana cost significantly.
We considered that, but if you make it expensive enough to really hurt, it does affect Shadow utility in PvE. (Source)

Old Mass Dispel glyph (cast time) is baked in for Holy and Disc. (Source)
Way overnerfing shadow. You said yourself that you didn't want to weaken shadow's raid utility.
We tried not to. Glyph of Mass Dispel isn't super popular with Shadow PvE and you rarely need to Void Shift on short cooldowns. (Source)
Raid utility? Mass dispel nerf is slap on the face for ARENA utility. Something you didn't want to touch.
Shadow has plenty of PvP utility and really high damage to boot. (Source)

How about you give Shadows a replacement spell instead of Voidshift? It's hardly worth the level 87 slot.
Shadow can still use VS for occasional PvE utility. It was causing problems in PvP giving the rest of the Shadow arsenal. (Source)

whats the reasoning for doubling the cool down practically on Shadow Void Shift? It's now just a worse vers of LoH but same CD
We have to balance around the whole package, not individual spells. (Source)

I've played disc forever and I do not spam one spell. I utilize just about all of my spells.
Good priests do. The concern is more that bad priests can still be pretty effective with a lot less effort. (Source)

Is atonement really that OP?
Yes. It should trade off healing for some DPS. Didn't feel like it was much of a healing loss. (Source)

Shaman (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Does Glyph of Unleashed Lightning being changed mean LB can be cast on the move baseline now?
Yes. (Source)
Will it be castable on the move for other specs too?
Not sure yet. Might be okay, but Resto for one doesn't need any kind of PvP buff. (Source)

The game needs less cast while moving.. atleast for pvp.
Agreed in general, but it's a benefit Elemental already had and doesn't seem like a big balance risk. It's also not instant. (Source)

Old Unleashed Lightning glyph benefit is baked in for Elemental. Cast time penalty just goes away. (Anything can change before 5.3 launch.) (Source)
So buff for Ele which is doing pretty well and an extra glyph Enhance has to try to make room for when already bloated?
Giving you a potentially useful glyph is a nerf? Is removing a useful glyph a buff? (Source)

Warlock (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Careful what you wish for.. remove the word clunky and ppl use "bad design".On topic, 34sec CD tremor needs a look at
What they usually mean is "I don't like" which then at least can get into why they don't like something. Clunky conveys nothing. (Source)

I know its story yet untold but, is there any reason why this quest is not obtainable?
Originally the warlock quest continued but we feared what came later would not be able to compete with the awesome of BT. (Source)

Why don't we have the option to help Akama in the warlock quest? The ring reward seems to be in game at least, glitch?
We removed the choice because we felt like there would generally be a right answer and folks would have to stop and wiki it. (Source)

Warrior (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
I'm still wondering why the heck you changed the Rage system for Warriors. I preferred Cata Style.
For the most part, the Cata style was that rage didn't matter and you just hit buttons as fast as you could. (Source)
I like the new rage system, but HS/Slam don't feel as integral to dumping rage as before for Arms.
If rage isn't unbounded, then there will be less HS use almost by definition. (Source)

PvP: Execute Melee/Needs Rage(issue) 30k noncrit : Shadowburn Ranged/mana(nonissue) 130k noncrit, can you explain?
We try not to design abilities to be mirror images of each other. (Source)

Blizzard Acquires IGN Pro League Assets
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
As an important next step in its ongoing efforts to provide world-class entertainment, Blizzard has purchased IGN Pro League technology and assets from IGN. Along with this purchase, Blizzard is bringing onboard members of the IPL staff as the foundation for a new team based in San Francisco whose primary focus will be on creating high-quality web and mobile content in support of Blizzard games, while some IPL staff have joined Blizzard's existing eSports team.

“This new team will help us to further develop the rich media experiences that extend the fun and engagement of our games online,” said Itzik Ben-Bassat, Blizzard’s executive vice president of publishing. “This is a team of passionate gamers with a proven track record, and we’re looking forward to now leveraging their expertise and technology to support a variety of online efforts.”

Regarding the transaction, Peer Schneider, executive vice president of IGN, stated, “With the continuing evolution of the eSports space and the renewed focus on our core media brand, we made the decision to sell the IGN Pro League technology and assets and become agnostic in our competitive gaming coverage. Following Blizzard’s acquisition of IPL assets, IGN will partner with multiple organizations and cover their events.”

Fan Art Update
The World of Warcraft Fan Art Section has been updated with three new pieces of fan artwork.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Bugged Ra-Den Kill, April 8 Hotfixes, Blue Posts, Blizzard Buys IPL Assets, Fan Art started by chaud View original post
Comments 87 Comments
  1. badmadz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythor View Post
    ardent follower of the World First race, has reported that the final bonus boss of this tier has been defeated by a Chinese guild named * 煌. So why the question mark? Manaflask has looked deeper into the kill, and it appears that there's something fishy afoot.

    Asia's guilds are already considered to be on a separate racecourse, so to speak, to the EU and NA guilds we habitually report on, thanks to their increased item levels and higher HP bosses, but this is far beyond that. Manaflask reports the following:
    Apparently * 煌 switched to 10 man after downing Lei Shen in 25 and that made all of Ra-Den's abilities work as it if were 10 man (except they had 25 people there fighting him) [...] The guild supposedly reported the issue to Blizzard so there isn't any actual exploiting going on, just a bug due to the different way in which 10s and 25s are handled in Asia (different lockout etc).
    What's more, and this is unconfirmed so should be treated as such, theories have surfaced that there is a bug with the boss. The guild's raid leader is quoted as having said that they also "met something usual in the encounter". We assume they mean unusual, and Manaflask also has theories that, by preventing Ra-Den from reaching his adds, he is prevented from gaining any of his abilities. They also mentioned that Ra-Den turns friendly at 5.5%, which seems likely to be an intentional feature, given what we've heard already in sound files and the like.

    The guild have, as mentioned above, reported this to Blizzard, and are convinced that, given all the aforementioned, their kill shouldn't be considered valid. Ion Hazzikostas previously asserted that if he was badly bugged the limited attempts would be lifted, but that seems unlikely at this late stage. We will wait and see, but for now, he's down.


    This is what the guild said

    Here's their official statement:


    事情是这样子的,我们在开荒25H莱登的过程中遇到一些不符合常*的 技能机制(也许是现阶段莱登并未设计完善),当时尝试通过不断以这 方式将它打到更低的血量来进行阶段性的*息获取

    结果5.5%的时候BOSS就变*友方*位,并且跳出刷屏*就,我们确*这 是莱登“正确”的击杀方法,也已经将相关问题提交给网易官方, 望得到关注。



    And's Google Translate. Yeah.

    I to respond to this "world first kill

    The thing is this, that we encounter in the wasteland 25H Leiden process skills mechanisms are not consistent with common sense (perhaps at this stage Leyden did not design perfect), then try to continue in this way, it hit more low blood stage access to information

    Results, 5.5% of the time BOSS becomes friendly unit and out of Shuabing achievements, we are convinced that this is not the Leiden "correct" kill related issues have also been submitted to the Netease official, hoping to get attention.

    Next week we will continue to Leiden wasteland attempt until the correct method to kill so far!

    Well.....if Blizz still has some balls left, they will call this kill invalid.
    It was a "perfect" exploit......switching from 25 to 10 seeing it "works" somehow and going to "try" a boss. Thats bullshit. Let a EU/US guild do this and a few "moments" later you would read an offizial blue-post like "Guild xy did intential bug using. Well they reported it, but f*ck it, we are Blizz and call the kill invalid and ban the whole raid for x days"
  1. Salech's Avatar
    haha, GW2 was never said as a WoW killer, only be a few idiots, and it's not free to play at all, i wish people would use facts instead of stupid non facts to ask questions
  1. Nightanthem's Avatar
    First of all, the so-called bug does not mean the guild defeated 10-man difficulty Ra'den with a 25-man team. Those were all bad rumors and u can just judge it yourself: Is it possible that a dungeon is bugged when u switch from 25m to 10m and there is no other problem except before Ra'den? How could it happen?

    Of course after there guild made the declaration, a reasonable explanation is that they kite the mogu energy to prevent Ra'den to absorb them and gain power, which is OBVIOUSLY not Blizzard's intention. This is a failure in instance-design but not a fault to player that detected it especially those who did not decide to kill the boss with it. No one knows that Ra'den will fall at 5.5%, also no one knows if the boss will enrage and instantly kill the team at like 10min. They are just experimenting. You can cancel there first-down achieve; you can ignore them as world first kill (in fact they also admitted it not count as world first kill, and will try more times in the following weeks); however you should not put all the crime on them, espeially frame a case against them.

    As to the loot, one saying is that they knew that a bugged kill didn't count so they had not loot the boss, and even they loot the boss it is quite possible that the system will remove them. In the screenshot we can see that the treasure box is just behind them, and the only gear they get is from a mogu fortunate coin.
  1. Ausr's Avatar
    Bugs happen, man. Get over it. Players are creative and Blizzard knows this, regardless of how much testing they do.
  1. ControlBlue's Avatar
    The big news here is that IPL buyout by Blizz.

    They want to invest in E-Sports, and that could affect WoW's PvP!
  1. zaneosak's Avatar
    How does blizzard fuck things up so badly like this. Hire a QA team that has some experience playing the game and arent some mouth breathing keyboard turners. An internal QA Team should of ran at every heroic boss with multiple raid comps for at least a month. Also the being able to throw 25 people at him on a 10 man lockout is just ..... wow. Blizzard needs to get their shit together. The game has been out long enough that there should be no excuses. TEST TEST TEST TEST
  1. wintervictor's Avatar
    Be it bug or not, they shouldn't be banned if not using intentionally, (I can tell you, there are many people suggested the group use bug intentionally in zhTW's LFR/G, so I can't judge this), but reporting to GM is a right decision after downing the boss, everyone will know that you've encounter the bug in this internet era. However, local team can't do much on this as they usually report to Blizzard and wait for decision, don't know how it will turn out but the data shall will valuable for all to try the boss.

    Can't blame blizzard fully for this, intentionally testers are restricted by what they known, and beta-testers are not there for testing, More important it how they react, some MMOs even fix bugs when all players used for years in the old day...
  1. dark666105's Avatar
    That staff change for shammys is baffling, also noticed that the other staves in the instance aren't listed for shammys for some reason as well.
  1. Ronin47xx's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Salech View Post
    haha, GW2 was never said as a WoW killer, only be a few idiots, and it's not free to play at all, i wish people would use facts instead of stupid non facts to ask questions
    Who made you the fact checker? Whoever did should get fired. If you never saw the hype for GW2 (b4 it came out obviously) it was suppose to kill wow. If you didn't see the rants about it then you either live in denial or you simply didn't visit any mmo forum or youtube for half a year. Also it is free to play. Do you mean pay to win perhaps? Either way your trying to contort the truth the simple fact is that its a game that you pay to own and then don't pay monthly for. Which is commonly known as free to play.

    Side note, female panda art kinda revealing don't you think?
  1. Dasn's Avatar
    lol at people criticizing the chinese guild who went on with the kill, implying they wouldn't do the same
  1. Eiffeltower's Avatar
    This is the world first 25 Man Kill of Raden.

    It doesnt matter if there was a bug. Blizzard release the encounter in this state, therefore everyone had the same chance.

    Now on the low down, yes it's absolutely outrageous Blizzard has a PTR, asks people to join and test, then tells us the testers are not really good to use data, and then release bugged encounters, or nerf encounters after 1 week ... It should be clean when released. If its not, dont release it.
  1. Soeroah's Avatar
    I'm surprised China caught up so fast. They didn't get Wrath for like a year, I thought they were fairly far behind, not on the bleeding edge of updates.
  1. SanderZammy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    This is the world first 25 Man Kill of Raden.

    It doesnt matter if there was a bug. Blizzard release the encounter in this state, therefore everyone had the same chance.

    Now on the low down, yes it's absolutely outrageous Blizzard has a PTR, asks people to join and test, then tells us the testers are not really good to use data, and then release bugged encounters, or nerf encounters after 1 week ... It should be clean when released. If its not, dont release it.
    It doesn't really work the same for Europe and Asia actually. On Asian servers, 10 and 25 man have seperate lockouts, 25 drops better gear, and 10 is significantly easier, some bosses even have less abilities. This article doesn't seem to mention that the bug was only possible because of the lockouts - they somehow switched to 10 man while keeping 25 people in the group. Killing it within hours of the Asia first Lei Shen kill should be enough proof of *something* being wrong. EU/US guilds, who were good enough to kill Lei Shen 2/3 weeks earlier didn't kill Ra-den in those 2/3 weeks.
  1. Mic_128's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratra View Post
    Giorgio's Caduceus of Pure Moods-- why are shamans excluded from this now?

    It's not as if shamans were taking away the staff from the more deserving (?) caster classes, as raid finder loot doesn't work like that. While MH/OH is better when an enchant is factored in, this would be like excluding 1H strength weapons from DKs because currently 2H frost performs better.
    Not sure why either, but they did the same thing with Ti'tahk, the Steps of Time back in Dragon Soul a few weeks after LFR was available.
  1. paruru's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapzer View Post
    They killed 10 man Ra-den with 25 people and 3 people were alive at the end, you call this a LEGIT world first? You sir, are plain dumb.
    show ur evidence that they killed 10m Ra-den with 25 people plz
  1. Freia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    It's not sad if they did it after reporting it to Blizzard. They knew right after they killed it everything would be stripped from them, and that's what they wanted to happen.

    I also expect Blizzard got some valuable data from it to improve upon the fight.
    No it is sad. They exploited a bug to kill it. When Paragon almost 1 shot Sinistra after their DK stole her ability and used it back on her they waited for blizzard to fix it. This guild knew something was wrong and went with it anyways.
  1. Kathranis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightanthem View Post
    First of all, the so-called bug does not mean the guild defeated 10-man difficulty Ra'den with a 25-man team. Those were all bad rumors and u can just judge it yourself: Is it possible that a dungeon is bugged when u switch from 25m to 10m and there is no other problem except before Ra'den? How could it happen?
    As far as I know, it's because the Chinese region uses different lockout mechanics and those mechanics didn't properly interact with the Ra-den fight. It wasn't an intentional exploit and the guild reported the bug when it happened. It's not as if they were trying to seek world first glory for it.

    Most people don't treat the race the same between the West and East as the same race anyway, because the Chinese version also has differences in ilevel and boss health, to cater to the nuances of Chinese playstyles.
  1. Vexacus's Avatar
    how can people say this isn't exploiting on purpose. the raid leader changed the difficulty too 10 player. and they didn't remove 15 people from the raid. and they attempted the boss. they where clearly looking for exploits. see how many people are alive in the end. there is no way they are even close on killing it the fair way. they exploited so they should receive a 72 hour ban for it.
  1. Kathranis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    I'm surprised China caught up so fast. They didn't get Wrath for like a year, I thought they were fairly far behind, not on the bleeding edge of updates.
    Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm were both substantially delayed, but starting with Mists of Pandaria they went worldwide simultaneous content releases.
  1. Poorperson's Avatar
    PvP: Execute Melee/Needs Rage(issue) 30k noncrit : Shadowburn Ranged/mana(nonissue) 130k noncrit, can you explain?
    We try not to design abilities to be mirror images of each other. (Source)

    Hahahhaha this is going to my sig.

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