WoW Down to 8.3 Million Subscribers

And here's most likely the reason: http://www.osnews.com/story/26885/Ub...stem_for_China

Originally Posted by Sargerus

out of curiosity, what are GW2 number of players? i know SWTOR have over 2 million

Its completely irrelevant, its B2P, people can pull numbers like 4 million out but what is the actual player base is not answerable because there are no subscriptions. Out of 4 of my friends who bought it, we've averaged about 40 hours each since release, units sold is not an indictment of the actual players.

Originally Posted by Tott3

And here's most likely the reason: http://www.osnews.com/story/26885/Ub...stem_for_China

Last time I checked wow ran just fine under Linux. (Although it's been a few years.)

Originally Posted by Mormolyce

If you knew anything about this game you'd know that's not true. They haven't stubbornly refused to change for 9 years, no. They've tried new things. Some worked and some didn't, but between in-game developments and dev posts like the one you quoted, it's abundantly clear that they have learned from every one.

And they're quite conservative about the game design, frankly

They make changes for the sake of changes. Look at the raiding model. They decided to equalize 10 and 25 mans and destroyed 25 mans in the process. They wanted to give people something to do, but they didn't improve their traditional gameplay elements like quests and dungeons. They just made dailies tiresome fillers content designed to gate and dungeons redundant.

Instead of correcting their mistakes with 25 man raiding and hard heroic dungeon content they strayed away with ridiculous new models like LFR and heroic scenarios... The dailies should have been a bonus that rewards non essentials like in TBC. They constantly change stuff for the worse and refuse to acknowledge and reverse that.

Originally Posted by Tott3

And here's most likely the reason: http://www.osnews.com/story/26885/Ub...stem_for_China

Throughout WOTLK, I raided on an Ubuntu box that ran World of Warcraft and Ventrilo via. Wine. The only issue was that my microphone didn't always work.

Originally Posted by Zephre

Don't share your opinion at all sounds like that of a GW2 fanboy trying to bash WoW.

WoW has it's fair share of crap and upcoming crap (5.3) but the 5.2 raid is one of the best they've made in years.

Right. Which is basically what the majority on this forum has been saying to anyone who actually made the right criticism to WoW in the last few years. Too bad they were right. If you really care about WoW you should have rather joined the crowd which was telling Blizzard this wasn't the right direction: not enough stuff, too late, too expensive. You are still waiting patch 5.3 eight months after release, 8 months. While paying a monthly fee. That's absurd, really. Other online games receive content patches every single month for free. And no, sorry, WoW hasn't superior quality content. Not anymore, and it has been for quite some time now. In EU and US MoP didn't even sold that much more close if compared to other recent MMOs, and those are now increasing their player base while WoW's is diminishing.

Wake up call: you should rather strongly raise your voice with Blizzard instead of bashing people who are just pointing to you these simple evidences. If you love WoW you should raise your voice: you should ask for more content, more often, at a cheaper price. Still paying a monthly fee for so little content is honestly absurd in 2013.
Or you could just bash me as a GW2 fanboy, as usual with anyone who raises criticism. FYI, I played WoW since release, when most of the naysayers here didn't even know about it. And if now so many people gravitate to other games maybe, just maybe, it's simply because they offer quantity and quality. If you don't like this, ask for WoW to become a better game instead of being in denial.

Don't stick your head in the sand, raise your concerns to Blizzard, loudly. Otherwise you are just going down with the Titanic (not Titan...) while screaming at those who were simply pointing at the obvious iceberg...

Originally Posted by crakerjack

does anyone else want to admit that MoP was a good expansion or throw out their illogical opinion that we'll look back and say MoP was great... that person, whoever you are... you are wrong. WoW is nothing like it used to be and people are finally realizing that. I'm glad, I really am... no one deserves to make money off of a game when it was amazing and then turned to crap and made into a cash cow. Lets wait for Q2... maybe subs will be under 5 million.

I doubt it

Originally Posted by draykorinee

I was going on holiday and had 2 days to play, generally I dont worry, was just highlighting that before you could run heroics back to back and cap fairly quickly.

Here folks is part of the problem. The sooner they delivery a way to progress your character without the addicted need for god damn gear the better. The game is plagued by it. It should be part of progression for sure, but its the only avenue, the game is centred around gear grinds each expansion and tier and is getting very boring.

@Tott3 : WoW runs under Linux using WINE

Originally Posted by Vulcanasm

What I think the problems are: (Ranked from most to least significant)

• It's been out 8 years.
• Player models have needed updating 4+ years. Graphics engine needs an overhaul. Can't compete with visual appeal of new games.
• No new player retention. Two major reasons: (a) Cataclysm turned WoW from sandbox to rail-rider; (b) 7 years of "innovations" that discourage all social interaction, when most new gamers start as social gamers. Social gamers who make no friends in WoW ... leave.
• Developers so nearsighted/insular that their thinking is cult-like. Majority of development seems to be content most never see: (hard mode) raids. No amount of lost subscribers convinces them WoW's big draw was never raids. No major new "things to do" since arenas.
• Highly toxic community, e.g. thinks "casual" is a dirty word, but "casual" means "anyone who puts in less effort or fewer hours than me".
• Developers embraced the fallacious idea that easy can't be fun. WoW's popularity skyrocketed in BC, but it became much easier. It peaked in WOTLK, when normal mode raids got pugged while current. "WOTLK raids were too easy", says the Cataclysm team, and they lose more subscribers than most MMOs ever had. You'd almost think there was a correlation between accessibility and subscribers ...
• MoP is two clumsily cobbled, disparate games: a pleasant, casual-friendly leveling game, and Raid or Die! The Sequel. The middle ground where they meet is a graveyard of short-sighted, bad decisions.
• PVP balance changes are too little, too late. Five years too late. The best PVPers left no later than Cataclysm. Thanks, Mages.
• Ham-handed 5.3 PVP re-gear shows total ignorance of human nature -- if gear lacks everyday utility, who needs it? If your car outperforms a Ferrari everywhere except one race track, do you buy the Ferrari?
• Developers, and many players, think good players attract players. Yet there are more ways to see good players than ever (e.g. twitch), and players have raised the bar continuously from vanilla. So, if that's true, why'd 1.8 million up and leave?

1. There is probably WoW fatigue.

2. The game engine has been updated (SSAO, etc.). On "ultra" it exceeds the graphics of most MMO games.

3. There will always be "obnoxious" people in any online community.

4. As far as quest design, etc... it's open to conjecture. I, personally, found reputation gating obnoxious. I feel the expansion isn't "alt" friendly due to the reputation grinding. If Blizzard put rep tabards back in the game and added a new BG every 5 months.... I feel things might change for the better. Also, they stated subs rocket back up with new PvE content. They'll have to examine content delivery.

Originally Posted by Cybran

They make changes for the sake of changes. Look at the raiding model. They decided to equalize 10 and 25 mans and destroyed 25 mans in the process.

What the hell are you talking about? They did that for an extremely important and very obvious reason.

How many 10m guilds do you see nowadays compared to 25m? Exactly.

Originally Posted by Tott3

And here's most likely the reason: http://www.osnews.com/story/26885/Ub...stem_for_China

been using wow under linux for almost 3 years now, never had a real problem except 1 update that segfaulted game.

Players consume content faster and subscribe and unsubscribe as new content is added.

What did they expect when they added a means to log in, queue up in LFR, get carried to victory and feeling of completion...sadly going back to linear progressions and long term goals isn't a possibility anymore due to the spoiled nature of todays MMO gamers.

Originally Posted by Dolus

2. The game engine has been updated SSAO, etc. On "ultra" it exceeds the graphics of many MMO games.

Hint: No, it doesn't.

Sorry, but some people here are really just in denial. And I am sorry, because I loved WoW and played it much more than most of you.
You should SCREAM with Blizzard for moving faster and eliminating the subscription fee (largely unjustified with so little content released). Instead you claim that WoW "exceeds the graphics of many MMO games"...
If this is how the playerbase advocates for a better game, this game is clearly doomed...

Originally Posted by Zivy

They need to make guilds more important again... like back when you didn't really get to raid unless you were in a guild and had committed yourself to that guild..

from where did you come from with that middle ages idea??
LFR was invented to prevent such human trafficking and raid gating which was in the hands of the GMs/RLs.

who are those GM/RL ? normal players that pay same fee as you ?
what you suggest is to bring in game dirty and corrupted real life politics tipical of human beings.

get ready to sit on the bench for hours or days while seeing your GM selected his friends to raid with him and eventually it will make them better geared which leave you on the bench even longer or without a guild wondering the forums for hours looking for a guild who will accept you with your out dated gear.

in other words - slavery, and slave masters thats what you are suggesting.

Originally Posted by Dolus

1. There is probably WoW fatigue.

2. The game engine has been updated SSAO, etc. On "ultra" it exceeds the graphics of many MMO games.

3. There will always be "obnoxious" people in any online community.

4. As far as quest design, etc... it's open to conjecture. I, personally, found reputation gating obnoxious.

Rep gating is one of the decisions I consider short-sighted and bad. Great idea for a month. Really bad if the people who lack 20 hours a week are *expected* to do 20 hours a week of *dailies*.

As for the game engine: What's the last other MMO you played? Because I've only seen one MMO since WoW with worse graphics, and that was 6 years ago (Dark and Light -- you've never heard of it, it was awful and it's gone now). In most recent MMOs -- GW2, Rift, ToRtanic, even AoC -- game visuals on "Low" exceed WoW on "Ultra". The only category where WoW wins is color depth, but that's hard to care about when your game models all look like 80s cartoons.

I still say its because Like in cata they took a step backwards and caved into the minorities once more on issues. This time they made the game far grindier than it had been in Cata or Wrath with the tabard removal for reps, the huge dependencies on the dailies which at launch took hours of time (not sure about now). No flying till 90 (which is cool for your main, but when you force everyone to do it on their alts it gets really old really fast). Needing to do hardcore grinding to stay with your best buff food, get your flasks, and pots instead of it being a guild effort its now sole responsibility thing (pros and cons to it) on top of having to make enough gold to pay for repairs, get the things you cant farm if you dont have the means like gems, enchants ect ect. When I stopped raiding I was spending 8 hours a day to keep up with it all just to raid two nights for 3 hours. I have a full time job and a child on the way. I don't have time to do that just to stay current on normal raids, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case for many others as well.

more dailies, less players...

The complete revert on dailies and other grinds such as coins suggest to me they were a large culprit here.

Originally Posted by Mormolyce

What the hell are you talking about? They did that for an extremely important and very obvious reason.

How many 10m guilds do you see nowadays compared to 25m? Exactly.

There was no obvious reason. There was only whine. In a 25 man guild you needed 2 tanks, 5-6 healers and rest was dps. This meant that some players got to experience real raiding without being absolutely perfect at their game. There was less pressure on indiviuals and a better sense of community. The 10 man lockout was for maxing out points on the weekend with some random pugs. People who wanted to min-max had that option and people who didn't want didn't feel forced to.

By the end of Wrath there were around 2 million raiders, more than now. The 10 and 25 merge meant that the number of Tanks and Healers needed to sustain raiders had to dramatically increase which wasn't possible. All of the people fortunate enough to be part of large and forgiving guilds were left out. The addition of LFR didn't solve this, it just added a toxic environment where no one cares about anything except himself. People don't organize themselves and don't know each other anymore.