Patch 5.4 - Flexible Raid Preview
Patch 5.4 will add a a new raid difficulty:

  • Bring anywhere from 10 to 25 people to your raid and the difficulty will automatically scale.
  • Works with battletags, so you can bring friends from other realms.
  • Item level of loot is between Raid Finder and Normal and loot is awarded with the Raid Finder style loot system.
  • Separate lockout from Raid Finder and Normal, allowing you to do all three difficulties.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Raids in World of Warcraft have a long history of not just challenging players, but changing and evolving as the years and expansions go by. As with everything in the game, we’re always thinking about what more we can bring to raiding to improve the experience for an even wider range of players. While Normal and Heroic Raids are a great fit for many, we feel there’s another gap worth filling—and to that end, we’re currently working on the development of a new type of Raid for the next major content update: Flexible Raiding.

One Size Does Not Fit All
While it’s impossible to fit every player into a neat, tidy archetype, we recognize that we could be providing a better experience to one broad category of raider: social groups comprised predominantly of friends and family, and smaller guilds that do their best to include as many members in their Raid outings possible.

During the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, the 10-player Normal difficulty served these groups of players pretty well, but the unification of 10-player and 25-player into a single difficulty effectively eliminated that niche. While Raid Finder mode is extremely accessible, it doesn’t provide smaller groups with a tight-knit social experience while progressing through the content. In Patch 5.4, we’re planning to introduce a new mode of raiding that allows us to deliver the sort of experience that we think these players are looking for.

/Flex
To fill this void, we’re in the process of developing a new Flexible Raid system, which includes a new difficulty that sits between Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, while still allowing friends, family, or pick-up groups to play together. This difficulty will be available for premade groups of 10–25 players, including any number in between. That means whether you have 11, 14, or 23 friends available for a Raid, they’ll all be able to participate.

The Flexible Raid system is designed so that the challenge level will scale depending on how many players you have in the Raid. So if you switch between 14 players one week and 22 the next, the difficulty will adjust automatically. Keep in mind that unlike Raid Finder, no matchmaking is available, so you’ll need to make sure you invite people to attend—but if some can’t make it, it’s not the end of the world (or the Raid). You’ll also still be able to invite Real ID or Battle.net friends cross-realm. Who you choose to bring and what Item Level gear they’ll need to join your merry band is up to you, too—there’s no Item Level requirement for this Raid difficulty.

Dressed to Kill
A new Raid difficulty also means a new Item Level. Flexible mode will award loot with an Item Level that falls between Raid Finder and Normal quality, and will use the Raid Finder’s “per person” loot system, specialization choices, and bonus rolls, so you won’t need to worry about bringing the “wrong” person and having them win that piece of gear you’ve long been waiting for.

You Have the Keys
We plan to unlock the Flexible Raid difficulty in wings, similar to Raid Finder, but on an accelerated timetable. This new difficulty also has a separate Raid lockout from Raid Finder and Normal difficulty, allowing you to take part in all three if you so desire. You’ll also be able to complete portions of your “Glory of the Orgrimmar Raider” raid meta- achievement in Flexible mode as well as in Normal or Heroic to earn cosmetic rewards such as an epic mount. This will allow Raid groups the opportunity to switch off nights between raids to complete achievements. Finally, taking part in Flexible, Normal, or Heroic difficulty will provide access to additional rewards that won’t be available in Raid Finder.

Getting Down to Brass Tacks
As with any in-development feature, we’re continuing to refine how the Flexible Raid system will work, and we look forward to hearing your constructive feedback from your experiences on the Public Test Realm when the new system goes live.
This article was originally published in forum thread: A Raid for All Seasons: Flexible Raid Preview started by Boubouille View original post
Comments 807 Comments
  1. SodiumChloride's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    I bet that's an eventual result. Back in Wrath there was ample opportunity to pug raids and the biggest limitation would often by that you could find 15 or 16 people, but not enough after, and then people start dropping, etc. With this, "shout in trade" for pugs works again and it can go with pretty much any reasonable composition. Renders Looking For Retards obsolete, hopefully.
    Nah. Getting groups to kill world bosses on some servers is like pulling teeth. Stand around for half an hour spamming trade chat isn't exactly fun. LFR will still be needed as a "reliable" way to raid. Flex will be something the LFR crowd do on the side if a PUG raid starts up.
  1. RoKPaNda's Avatar
    I've said it for LFR many times and I'll say it again for this: If your guild FORCES you or GUILTS you into doing LFR/Flexible Raiding, your guild is ABUSING YOU and you should find a new guild.
  1. Mormolyce's Avatar
    Hoooooly crap I wasn't expecting this!

    Most interested in the "you can do the achievements in this difficulty" part myself. Sounds like an awesome addition. I've often thought that if WoW started from scratch then something like this would be the way all raiding works.

    My only concerns are the complexity of having 4 difficulty levels (and 3 different sizes) and the ILVL bloat... although they did say they're going to slide the ILVL in between LFR and NM so... I wonder if they will expand the difference between LFR and NM to accomodate it or if the gap will stay the same.
  1. mikeakanice's Avatar
    This idea is okay. However it won't fix pugs because the playerbase is stupid. Remember in Wrath when pugs were formed and the Raid leader always wanted some ridiculous gear score that was 30 points higher that was needed and you had to have every achievement under the sun. That will return.
  1. Mormolyce's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by tangers58 View Post
    yay! Now we get to do the exact same thing 3 times a week to keep up on gear! And raids get to be even further dumbed down
    If you're clearing HM bosses what the hell would you want LFR and Flex gear for?

    But of course, your "further dumbed down" comment tells me you don't do HM anyway :P
  1. Frostyfire14's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Korthas View Post
    I was with them until they said it would drop a different iLvl gear than Normal.
    Basically this. Why scale down the difficulty if you have 10-24 people.

    The guilds with the numbers should be able to support as many guild members as needed without a negative attached to it.
  1. mmoc5cdcc17479's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by xerus View Post
    Worst idea ever.

    Here's how to improve it: remove 10 man normal, remove 25man normal, add flex size normal. Done.

    Screw 3 ilvl tiers, 3 lockouts and 3 difficulties.
    worst idea ever, there are ppl like me that want the challenge in heroic mode.

    Dont be such a ego.
  1. Xalzel's Avatar
    I think being able to run with 8+ would be better
  1. VanishO2's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Don't really see how other people getting content to do and getting gear "concerns" you.

    Don't like it, don't do it. Please don't say it's to gear up for normal/heroic. Do those in normal/heroic gear from the previous tiers. Man up and stop trying to cheese the challenge. The challenge is why you are doing normal/heroic no?
    It's a real concern since they alread messed with LFR ilvl because of that. This will be required to run for normal/heroic raiders as LFR used to be.

    More of the same, faster burn-out. Wotlk taught that for everyone.

    And, will fragment even more the raiding comunity. Is it hard now to get ppl into 10/25? Guess what will happen?
  1. Pisholina's Avatar
    The concept is great but... Another raid difficulty? Do we really need that? I think the Flexible Raid could be put into the normal difficulty just fine. Also, make it scale from 6 to 40 people.
  1. smokii's Avatar
    trade chat pug setting

    edit: up to 40 would be awesome too
  1. Mormolyce's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mikeakanice View Post
    This idea is okay. However it won't fix pugs because the playerbase is stupid. Remember in Wrath when pugs were formed and the Raid leader always wanted some ridiculous gear score that was 30 points higher that was needed and you had to have every achievement under the sun. That will return.
    I see it today in pug MSV runs that ask for 520 ILVL. When it drops gear that's 489. And my guild cleared it the week it opened in 463s lol.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-07 at 01:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyfire14 View Post
    Basically this. Why scale down the difficulty if you have 10-24 people.
    Because it's also easier than NM. The assumption is that you're bringing pugs.
  1. Chult's Avatar
    I hope that isn't the big feature they were discussing.

    Sweet, now we have 4 flavors of the same content: Utterly hopeless, mediocre at best, average, and somewhat difficult. It's like TOGC every tier!!
  1. mmocb2ea88a996's Avatar
    Ha! I called this nearly a year ago (also posted it to official suggestions forum at that time)
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post18330764
    Quote Originally Posted by Drii View Post
    I'd much prefer size scaling
    Give the option to raid with x members where 6<= x <= 25
    and scale the enemies HP/Damage and loot in [5 member brackets]

    So
    6-10 members in raid?: You're raiding 10man (go with less than 10 if you're good, want to challenge yourself and have more chance at loot)
    11-15 members in raid? You're raiding 15man
    16-20 members in raid? You're raiding 20man
    20-25 members in raid? You're raiding 25man

    There's no setting for raid size, the raid adjusts to your group size automatically when you cross a subzone trigger before a raid boss.
    (think zone trigger dungeon quests, zone trigger events like gauntlets etc for the mechanism)

    Basically take what Blizz is doing now when scaling raids from 10 -> 25 in terms of HP/dmg/loot,
    make it instead 4 brackets and make the raid adjust itself automatically to your raid group with no player setting for raid size.
  1. thunderdragon2's Avatar
    [QUOTE=SodiumChloride;21370372]No it doesn't.

    If you are doing normal mode. Why are you in LFR? Normal mode is designed to be beaten with last tier's gear. Cheesing it with LFR gear is just being a wuss.[/QUOTE


    i do it on my main to get peices that wouldnt drop in normal, if it wasnt for lfr hed still have 3 483 peices
  1. VanishO2's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    If you're clearing HM bosses what the hell would you want LFR and Flex gear for?

    But of course, your "further dumbed down" comment tells me you don't do HM anyway :P
    If you question that, you're clueless.

    Ppl going for HM or even the harder Normal fights will want any kind of upgrade that they can manage to get. gap between LFR and Normal was increased for a reason.

    There will always be a OP tier set bonus, OP trinket effects, etc. that are totally worth farming for any kind of ilvl.

    If you take into consideration the ilvl upgrade feature + a higher ilvl than LFR (without sharing lockouts). Things will get crystal clear, even for you.
  1. Nobleshield's Avatar
    I wonder if it will be something you queue for like LFR or if its a difficulty you can select like Heroic. In other words, if you're struggling on a boss on Normal 10M, could you drop to Flexible 10M and down it, then switch back to Normal 10M for the next boss?
  1. 1up's Avatar
    Openraid is going to go crazy for this!
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Korthas View Post
    I was with them until they said it would drop a different iLvl gear than Normal.
    Same here. I want to get the same item level rewards from Normal so much, but when Blizzard used Looking For Retard as an excuse to up Normal to "where it should've been" (or so it's claimed), guess what? That really laid the hurt on raiding in general, even more so than the Cataclysm changes had. And this is their solution? To add yet another difficulty tier with sub-par gear as usual?

    Thanks for nothing, Blizzard.
  1. Animaneth's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    My only critique, (since I love this feature) is why bother to keep Normal mode now?

    The Hardcore raiders clear normal anywhere inside the first month (many in the first week) and then move onto Heroic. May aswell just have LFR > Flexi(normal) > Heroic. Normal just feel redundant now imo.
    The solution you propose is totally correct. However, you would end up removing something from your customer. And at the same time you would end up with the failing-elitists crying because "blizz only nerfs content".

    Don't let that sentence misguide you I agree with you.

    Also, I can't help but think that this is something expected to bring back that "niche" that was 10man in WotLK, the expansion with the biggest number of subs, even thought I dont think that people is a "niche", niche refers to a small ammount of elements in the sample, and I don't think that group was so small...

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