Patch 5.4 PvP Mounts, In Game Store Update, 5.4 PTR Notes Update, Blue Posts, Comic

Key Details on Console Gameplay, Security is Still Overlooked by Players, Testing of RMAH SMS System Continues

Hearthstone Coming to China, Client Localizations, Make a Card

Patch 5.4 -Skeletal Warhorse and Warsaber Mounts
Patch 5.4 adds two new PvP mounts, the Reins of the Vicious Skeletal Warhorse and Reins of the Vicious Warsaber.

Currently, the mounts are sold by Netharian. on the PTR for a Vicious War Saddle, but it isn't very clear where those come from yet though, as we saw two different answers on the same day from two developers:







Patch 5.4 In Game Store Update
It looks like the Asian regions will be the first to be able to purchase faster leveling and Lesser Charms!
Originally Posted by Bashiok (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Thanks for all the feedback so far, everyone. We’re still pretty early in the exploration process, but we did want to go into more detail about our rationale for introducing an in-game store, as well as provide some insight into what you might ultimately see available there.

For players who are already interested in the in-game items we offer, such as Pet Store pets and mounts, the benefits of an in-game store are pretty clear. We think everyone would appreciate the convenience of being able to make such purchases without having to leave the game, and ultimately that’s our long-term goal for the system, though there’s quite a bit of work involved in retrofitting those existing items into the new system.

First, we’ll be testing the in-game store with some new kinds of items we’re looking into introducing (in Asian regions, at the outset) based on player feedback: specifically, an experience buff to assist with the leveling process, as well as an alternate way to acquire Lesser Charms of Good Fortune. We’ve had a lot of requests from players in different regions for convenience-oriented items such as these, and as with other new ideas we’ve introduced as WoW has evolved—including Pet Store pets, mounts, and more—your feedback plays a hugely important part in determining what we add to the game.

Ultimately it’s still too early in the process to make any final determinations about our plans, but in the meantime, we hope you’ll check out the in-game store once it’s implemented on the PTR and let us know what you think.

Patch 5.4 PTR Notes Update
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
General
New Feature: Flexible Raid Difficulty
  • Player spells with different target limits depending on raid size will gradually increase their limits based on the number of players in Flexible Raid difficulty.

Classes
Death Knight (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • Blood
    • Scent of Blood now also has a chance to activate when the Death Knight dodges or parries a melee attack.

Druid (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • Talents
    • Force of Nature
      • Guardian: Guardian Druids now gain Vengeance when their Treant takes damage.

Hunter (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • General
    • Counter Shot is now a baseline interrupt ability learned by all Hunters at level 22.
  • Talents
    • Silencing Shot is no longer a talent and is now an ability that replaces Counter Shot for Marksman Hunters.

Monk (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • Talents
    • Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger's summoned version of Xuen will no longer taunt off players that are tank-specialized.
      • For Brewmaster Monks, they now gain Vengeance when Xuen takes damage.
  • Glyphs
    • Glyph of Afterlife now increases the chance to summon a Healing Sphere by 100% (up from 25% chance).
  • Brewmaster
    • Keg Smash now deals 18% less damage.
  • Windwalker
    • Mastery: Bottled Fury has been redesigned. The Mastery now gives a chance to generate an additional charge of Tigereye Brew when the Monk gains one normally.
    • Tigereye Brew received a number of adjustments.
      • Stacks up to 30 charges (up from 20 charges).
      • Can be consumed 15 at a time (up from 10 at a time).
      • Increases damage by 5% per stack, (up from 1% per stack) but is no longer increased by Mastery.
      • The Monk gains 1 charge of Tigereye Brew for every 4 Chi spent (down from 1 charge per 3 Chi spent).

Paladin (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • General
    • Seal of Insight no longer has a chance to restore mana on attacks.
  • Glyphs
    • Glyph of Battle Healer has been redesigned. The glyph now causes Seal of Insight to heal the most wounded raid or party member instead of the Paladin.
  • Protection
    • Grand Crusader no longer has a chance to activate from Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous, but now has a 30% chance to activate when dodging or parrying a melee attack (up from 12%).

Priest (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • Shadow
    • Shadowy Apparitions now creates a shadowy version of the Priest that floats towards the target and deals damage. The apparitions are now treated as a missile, and is no longer an attackable creature.

Rogue (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • General
    • Eviscerate now deals 10% less damage.
  • Talents
    • Burst of Speed's cost has been reduced to 15 Energy (down from 30 Energy).
    • Cheat Death now reduces damage taken by 85% after activating (up from 80%).
    • Cloak and Dagger now allows the Rogue to use Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot from 40 yards away (up from 30 yards).
    • Shadowstep now has a reduced cooldown of 20 seconds (down from 24 seconds).
  • Assassination
    • Assassination Rogues should no longer be eligible for any other weapon types except daggers in situations where loot is automatically awarded(Raid Finder, Bonus Rolls, Heroic/Normal Scenarios, and the upcoming Flexible Raid difficulty.)
  • Subtlety
    • Backstab now deals 315% weapon damage (up from 275%).
    • Hemorrhage now deals 160% weapons damage (up from 140%); 232% weapons damage if a dagger is equipped (up from 203% for daggers).

Shaman (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • General
    • Chain Heal's effectiveness will no longer decrease with each jump (up from a 30% reduction to healing with each jump).
    • Earth Elemental Totem's summoned Greater Earth Elemental will no longer taunt off players that are tank-specialized.
    • Healing Rain's radius has been increased to 12 yards, up from 10 yards. For 25-player instances, Healing Rain will heal for a reduced amount when healing more than 14 raid members. It remains the same in 10-player instances, healing for a reduced amount when healing more than 6 raid members.
  • Talents
    • New Talent: Rushing Streams. This new talent replaces Healing Tide Totem, increases healing done by Healing Stream Totem by 100%, and causes the totem to heal 2 targets at once.
    • Healing Tide Totem is no longer a talent and is a baseline ability for all Shamans. Additionally, this totem will now heal 12 raid members (up from 5) when used in a 25-player instance. now heals for 50% more.
  • Class Armor
    • Elemental Shaman 2-piece PvP set bonus has been changed. It now allows Lightning Shield to be triggered once every 1.5 seconds instead of once every 3 seconds.

Warlock (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • Talents
    • Archimonde's Vengeance has been redesigned. For the passive portion of the talent, each time the Warlock or their pet takes damage, the Warlock now gains 1% of the unmitigated damage back as spell power for 20 seconds.
  • Glyphs
    • Glyph of Everlasting Affliction will be redesigned.
    • Glyph of Soul Swap will be redesigned.
  • Affliction
    • Agony now deals 5% more damage.
    • Drain Soul now deals 40% less damage, and if other periodic Affliction damage effects are triggered by Drain Soul, they now deal 60% of their normal damage (down from 100%).
    • Haunt now deals 50% more damage, and increases damage done by all of the Warlock's other spells against the target by 45%.
    • Malefic Grasp now deals 40% less damage, and causes all of of the Warlock's other periodic Affliction damage effects to instantly deal 30% of their normal periodic damage (down from 50%).
    • Nightfall now gives Corruption a 7% chance to generate a Soul Shard (up from a 5% chance), but the increased chance only works on the most recently applied Corruption.
    • Soul Swap no longer does any damage, and now copies damage-over-time effects instead of just moving them without needing a glyph. Copied effects now once again preserve their power and duration. Duration has been reduced to 6 seconds (down from 20 seconds).
    • Unstable Affliction now deals 10% more damage.

Warrior (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
  • Protection
    • Revenge now generates 20 Rage (up from 15 Rage).

Battlegrounds and Arenas
Battlegrounds
  • Conquest Point rewards for winning a random or call-to-arms Battleground match has been increased.
    • First win of the day now awards 150 Conquest Points (up from 100).
    • Subsequent wins now awards 75 Conquest Points (up from 50).
  • Strand of the Ancients
    • Bombs are no longer an item held in the player's inventory and will now do considerably more damage, 4500 (up from 1250).
    • Players carrying a bomb now have a button that allows them to place it with a spell effect over their heads.
      • Placing a bomb takes 2 seconds, and can be interrupted like a Battleground capture point.
      • Disarming a bomb takes 2 seconds, and can be interrupted like a Battleground capture point.
    • Demolishers will no longer have the Ram ability and only one will spawn at each stage.

Legendary Cloak Effects
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Legendary Cloak Effects and Druid/Warlock Forms
As the legendary spell effects are tied to the procs and not the cloak graphics themselves, they will still display even if your cloak is hidden. That includes Druid forms.

How's it work with Meta for demo locks I wonder? I'd love to know it's all gonna be smooth sailing
I haven't confirmed Meta form specifically, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Will players that haven't been doing the quests or chose to level a new character have a chance at getting these cloaks?
You won't get them quite as quickly as someone who's already on the most recent step of the quest chain when 5.4 releases, but we do have plans to shorten the amount of time it takes to "catch up." We made similar changes for the 5.0 steps of the chain when 5.2 launched. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Legendary Cloak and Transmogrification
How many of you are concerned that legacy legendaries will become the new Paladin Tier 2, in that everyone and his dog will be equipping them? Wouldn't it somehow ruin the novelty of owning these items when you get to see them being used constantly, even by levelling characters? Alright, I guess the argument for items that aren't available anymore is a little stronger in my eyes.

But hey, we're not ruling it out completely—one day, who knows? We purposefully made it very limited when transmogrification started, so we could maybe open things up further down the road. I've seen plenty of people argue against this is all.

I mean, allowing players to transmog into legendaries isn't gonna automatically increase the number of players having, say, Thunderfury
Are you sure? One of the reasons I've never gone for the Twin Blades of Azzinoth is because I know I wouldn't be able to show them off constantly. All that work for a few minutes posing in Stormwind? But if I could transmogrify them, I'd be in BT every waking moment trying for those things, and I think there'd be a few more like me. Just a guess, of course. At least now when you see someone taking those few minutes to /flex in the city with those awesome old school legendaries, you're impressed. Well, I am. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Patch 5.4 Hunter Updates
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
As I've mentioned before, we're still discussing Hunter concerns. When we have an update, we will share it.
I said this 5 days ago, before a holiday weekend. We haven't somehow jumped ahead several weeks in development while everyone's been out of the office.

I know it can be frustrating to be patient, but that's just how our development process works. We're still pretty early in that process. As I've mentioned before, balance tuning typically takes place towards the end of the PTR cycle. Hunter sustained DPS in the wake of the Readiness nerf is a concern that we're well aware of and fully intend to fix -- when we get to that point.

For clarity: we know there are other issues than just Readiness. Arcane Shot vs Kill Command is one such issue that, again, we intend to fix. I will make sure to bring up the other concerns to the team as well.

He can be our man on the inside and a champion for our class. It would be risky and challenging, but, if he cares about this game and us, he absolutely should do it. If I could walk down the hall and force Greg to hear these issues I would do so in a heartbeat.
This is starting to get pretty off-topic, and I apologize, but I want to be clear: this is exactly what I do. Daily. For every class. My job as a World of Warcraft Community Representative, as it turns out, is to represent the community. I take my job very seriously. We all do.

I know all too well how frustrating it can be when you're concerned about something and it appears that we're being silent. I was in those shoes myself until very recently. Just please be aware that silence isn't necessarily a bad thing. In many cases, including this one, it means we're still actively discussing things and just don't have anything we're comfortable sharing yet.

We really do appreciate all of the feedback, both on Hunter concerns as well as how we can communicate better. This thread in particular should probably stick to Hunter concerns, but I want to be the very best (like no one ever was) and can always work to improve how we interact with you guys.

Alright, I have a few updates, followed by a request. Here’s what the developers are currently thinking about several of the issues brought up in this thread:

Regarding Stampede: We’re happy with the damage it’s currently putting out in PvP. For PvE, we’re planning to buff its damage pretty heavily, so it becomes a substantially more potent DPS cooldown. We don’t want to give it any more utility than it has now, for reasons we’ve explained at length already.

Readiness is still under heavy discussion, and we haven’t made a final decision on what we’re going to do with it in 5.4. At the moment, we’re leaning towards just removing the ability entirely and giving the affected abilities shorter cooldowns or charges to compensate. If we end up taking that route, we will buff Hunter damage (most likely across the board, not just specific abilities), but as I mentioned, we’re still discussing.

Murder of Crows vs Blink strike is also still under heavy discussion. Our goal (with all talents) is that active abilities used properly will outperform passive ones. We haven’t decided yet what adjustments we’ll make to achieve that in 5.4.

Scatter/Silencing Shot: We don’t consider interrupts to be mandatory in PvE. If a Hunter would rather not take the Glyph of Scattered Thoughts, there are plenty of other players in the raid who could take on the responsibility. We like Silencing Shot as a Marksman perk overall, but we’re still discussing things. We may end up making a baseline Interrupting Shot that gets upgraded to Silencing Shot if you spec Marksman.

Speaking of spec differences, we agree that Hunter rotations feel cooler when your signature shots do a lot more damage than other shots, and we’ll discuss that some more. That’s part of the reasoning behind the Arcane Shot changes – our hope is that saving up more Focus for a bigger hit will feel better than firing off smaller shots more regularly.

As to overall Hunter performance and utility, we don’t think the issues are with the Hunter class specifically. Instead, we think that certain other classes are overperforming (in both) at the moment. Fixing those outliers will, in turn, make a good Hunter more attractive for their raid spot. You may have seen some (but not all) changes along those lines on the PTR already.

Pet pathing errors are unfortunately extremely difficult to fix. A lot of the time, the problem isn’t with the pet AI but with the environment or encounter. That means there’s no blanket fix here; we have to resolve every such error individually. When reporting these problems, it’s most helpful to be very specific. “My pet has trouble getting to the boss during this phase transition on this encounter” allows us to reproduce the issue and come up with a fix. “My pet is dumb” does not.

Which brings me to my request. This thread has a lot of great feedback put together by a good handful of Hunters who just want their class to be fun – which is amazing! The issue is that, in order to find those helpful posts, we have to dig through hundreds of other posts that contain no helpful information whatsoever (and instead focus on how class X got more blue posts this week, or employee Y must just hate Hunters, etc.). There’s always going to be some of that, and we expect as much, but this thread has been particularly out of hand.

I’m not bringing that up because it hurts my feelings or whatever. That sort of thing doesn’t really affect me. I’m bringing it up because it makes it incredibly difficult for us to figure out what you’re actually upset about. When we have to sift through so much noise just to find something we can actually bring up in our meetings and discuss, the end result is that we have less to talk about in our meetings. I’m sure there are still some concerns that I didn’t address above – if that’s the case, it’s 100% because they got lost in the pile. That sucks.

So please, try to keep things constructive. You’re only hurting yourselves and your fellow Hunters otherwise. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Dark Legacy Comics #397
DLC #397 has been released! The series starts with #395.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 5.4 PvP Mounts, In Game Store Update, 5.4 PTR Notes Update, Blue Posts, Comic started by chaud View original post
Published on 2013-07-09 06:52 AM
139 Comments
Comments 137 Comments
  1. Dazzy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Whopoppedhero View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen, behold the massive hyperventilation that's going on here. Actually, it's not akin to selling gear. It's akin to buying Charms, which DO NOT guarantee gear. It's a gamble (everyone has the same chances), it's limited per week (everyone has the same limit), and more often than not, leaves you empty handed. That's the luck of the lottery. Let's be honest about what the real issue is here for all the whiners, at least regarding Charms, as we really have no other clue as to what Blizzard may or may not offer from an In-Game Store. It's not the purchase of Charms or other said convenience (EXP boost) items that irks them; they're butt hurt that others would be able to bypass doing dailies or other grinds for Charms. The real issue is time commitment; the whiners see their time and effort in game as more valuable than someone's time and effort out of game. Believe it or not, people who will pay for Charms are putting themselves more at risk that those who don't; if they lose on their bonus rolls, at least the person who didn't pay can say "well, my there goes the time I invested in grinding, better luck next week" whereas the person who paid loses both time AND money. Such is the nature of gambling. I say if people want to pony up and chance the odds, let them. Bonus rolls don't guarantee anything, you can't say otherwise.

    I'm not arguing for or against an In-Game Store, but you make it seem as if heroic thunderforged BiS gear is going to rain from the skies. Guess what? It won't, just like it doesn't currently.
    Everyone has the same chance IF they farm the max amount of them every week, those that don't have an infinitely worse chance of getting bonus loot over a purchaser. That is the definition of pay to win, look it up.

    Idc either way but they are headed down a slippery slope (yeah I said it, wanna fight about it?). If it were to go live without massive sub loss, you would have to be corky from life goes on naive to believe everything in game wouldn't be in the store for cash.

    I can afford to max them out for every registered user on this forum every week, I personally just can't see paying for something to advance in a game that already charges a subscription. To each his own I guess.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Oh lawdy! It's so hard to get out of the game to buy pets and mounts! Bull shit, it's an in game cash shop to charge us for crap that should be included in the subscription. Pay to win, gg.
  1. derpkitteh's Avatar
    more lame pvp BS :/

    f**king hate pvp, but that horse would be perfect for my dk.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by blaxter View Post
    I will gladly pay for a 100% buff experience. Or to avoid farming fraking coins
    I bet you would, why work for things when you can just use your welfare check for it?
  1. Kitterfly's Avatar
    They're greedy, it's a big part why I've quit.

    I understand every company wants to make money. However, you best understand that I also have a right and really a duty to give them the middle-finger when I feel they're crossing a line as a consumer.

    1) We pay a monthly subscription.

    2) Their services are insanely overpriced.

    3) You still have to buy the expansions.

    4) Interestingly enough, even with this revenue, their customer service continues to degrade.

    5) They've already got quite a few items up for digital download, just aesthetic. I already disagreed with this to begin with but it never did get too out of hand.

    6) Now they're adding in bonuses, temporary boosts, etc. like many games have incorporated except, oh wait, they're non-subscription.

    In other words, their greed officially has no bounds and I am exhausted with it. Remember how they were discussing creating a "membership plus" model for extra features like cross-realm partying? Yeah, that, should've been a very clear and evident sign they have no interest in playing nice with people who already bleed coin to play their game.

    Not to mention, Blizzy, your shit is getting boring and repetitive. You're not doing enough to refresh the formula and make dealing with this kind of crap not tempting in the least.

    Great game but it's age is showing bad and it's publisher's gluttony is even more glaring.
  1. Idletime's Avatar
    Let's see, 2004 the sub was 14.95 US, 2013 the sub is 14.95 US. Not a single raise in the price in all that time, they've merely stood on the quality of the game to insure the income. They introduce something that will be test marketed in Asia (where transactions like these are extremely common and already accepted, and even demanded) to possibly make some more money and keep the lights on and even enhance the game for others even further, people flip right out.

    This will have no bearing on anyone's in-game success, and if it makes it to the US/EU servers, then it enhances QOL giving those with actual *gasp* paying jobs that have the disposable income but not the time except to raid and enjoy the game for what it is in their spare time. Maybe your raiders that are always late for raid because they have work, or those that didn't have the time to grind dailies will be able to further benefit your raid with rolls they wouldn't have before. For those that commit way too much time, you'll still enjoy the benefits of your time in-game the same way. The difference is they are starting to recognize that there is a market for those that will pay for a little assistance. For me, I'm ambivalent about how a person achieves their raid group responsibilities, just that they achieve them.
  1. Kitterfly's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Idletime View Post
    Let's see, 2004 the sub was 14.95 US, 2013 the sub is 14.95 US. Not a single raise in the price in all that time, they've merely stood on the quality of the game to insure the income. They introduce something that will be test marketed in Asia (where transactions like these are extremely common and already accepted, and even demanded) to possibly make some more money and keep the lights on and even enhance the game for others even further, people flip right out.

    This will have no bearing on anyone's in-game success, and if it makes it to the US/EU servers, then it enhances QOL giving those with actual *gasp* paying jobs that have the disposable income but not the time except to raid and enjoy the game for what it is in their spare time. Maybe your raiders that are always late for raid because they have work, or those that didn't have the time to grind dailies will be able to further benefit your raid with rolls they wouldn't have before. For those that commit way too much time, you'll still enjoy the benefits of your time in-game the same way. The difference is they are starting to recognize that there is a market for those that will pay for a little assistance. For me, I'm ambivalent about how a person achieves their raid group responsibilities, just that they achieve them.
    You crack me up.

    Thank you for acting like the subscription is the only way they make money and even more humorously, dismissing it as if it's not an insane revenue unto itself.

    This is what makes corporate America so awesome to deal with. We have companies figuring out ways best to screw us out of our hard-earned money while there are consumers figuring out the best way to graciously accept said screwings. We can't possibly lose with this winning combination.

    Awesome, awesome, double-scoop-of-fracking-ice-scream awesome.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Not sure if serious...
    So imagine if you can pay to get your weekly 50 lesser charms.. you choose to get them that way...
    How exactly is it P2W when you are still, just like everyone else, limited to 3 runes per week?

    If they let you somehow gain additional Runes, then you'd have a point.
    Not sure if serious...
    So imagine you can pay to get gear off ji-kun..you choose to get it that way...
    I mean you're still limited to just what ji-kun drops, just like everyone else that chose not to pay and went and got to him in game. If they let you somehow get more gear off ji-kun that everyone else then that would be a point? Yeah thought so. Think before you post.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganksinatra View Post
    It's entitled whiners like you that have made this community toxic, and a large reason why I left.
    Um...you're still here. You wiped on leaving. l2leave.
  1. Sting's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    I think ppl have every right to wonder what will happen. Lets not forget that Blizzard managed to turn D3 into RMAH joke rather than good solid long term gameplay and character progression. Thats the real concern for many players atm with WOW.
    Again, your opinion.
  1. Berethos08's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Idletime View Post
    The difference is they are starting to recognize that there is a market for those that will pay for a little assistance. For me, I'm ambivalent about how a person achieves their raid group responsibilities, just that they achieve them.
    There's always been a market for those what will pay for a little assistance - what assumption do you think the western F2P market has been operating under for several years now?

    The real difference is that these other companies don't believe the market will widely accept required fees alongside monetized convenience (pay to win isn't exactly a common occurrence in the western market, the vast majority of cash shop items are vanity, cosmetic, or convenience, with a few including content, and even fewer selling legit gear...and even fewer than that selling useful, end-game gear)...it's typically seen as a trade-off.

    None of these companies think they could get away with having required fees and monetizing convenience items at all - Blizzard, as of right now, seems to think they can.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    Again, your opinion.
    The fact that you could spend 6 months grinding for an item and not get it, or spend less than a days pay (even at minimum wage) and get it in a few minutes shopping on the RMAH, lends more than enough credibility to that idea. The game itself is pretty good, has gotten better, and hopefully sees even better refinement when they get around to finishing the itemization patch...but the RMAH and its buddy the GAH, with the current system, do actively undermine the gameplay of a game focused around farming for loot.

    Still, the RMAH surrounds a separate issue (the black market of goods sold between players) than issues that come with a company created cash shop.
  1. Sting's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post

    None of these companies think they could get away with having required fees and monetizing convenience items at all - Blizzard, as of right now, seems to think they can.
    I guess being market leader by a fair margin gives them the confidence to try and do it. As far as I'm concerned, nothing changes.
    The Blizzard Store already exists, and except for an authenticator, I've never bought anything. I don't need xp boosts, I don't need to buy tokens that are faceroll easy to get, I don't need mount skins that are "tainted" by a RL price tag. The only thing I'd consider buying are extra professions slots if they'd implement those.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Berethos08 View Post



    The fact that you could spend 6 months grinding for an item and not get it, or spend less than a days pay (even at minimum wage) and get it in a few minutes shopping on the RMAH, lends more than enough credibility to that idea. The game itself is pretty good, has gotten better, and hopefully sees even better refinement when they get around to finishing the itemization patch...but the RMAH and its buddy the GAH, with the current system, do actively undermine the gameplay of a game focused around farming for loot.

    Still, the RMAH surrounds a separate issue (the black market of goods sold between players) than issues that come with a company created cash shop.
    Random loot is just that, random. On the flipside, good items that you do find but which aren't suited to your specific needs/wants can be sold on the GAH/RMAH, effectively cancelling out each other. You have to keep in mind that blizzard isn't selling stuff on the RMAH, other people are.
    I could argue that you don't even have to use the AH, but the terrible drop system they have right now kinda screws me over there. I sincerely hope they improve the quality of found items like they promised to, that should make self found gameplay more viable.
  1. Woakerio's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    Everyone has the same chance IF they farm the max amount of them every week, those that don't have an infinitely worse chance of getting bonus loot over a purchaser. That is the definition of pay to win, look it up.

    Idc either way but they are headed down a slippery slope (yeah I said it, wanna fight about it?). If it were to go live without massive sub loss, you would have to be corky from life goes on naive to believe everything in game wouldn't be in the store for cash.

    I can afford to max them out for every registered user on this forum every week, I personally just can't see paying for something to advance in a game that already charges a subscription. To each his own I guess.
    Getting 50 lesser elder charms is stupidly easy..."infinitely worse chance"? Do Isle of Thunder quests/kill mobs/dailies/etc. Now if the charms were a random drop off a handful of mobs at a rate of 1%, then we're talking P2W. As long as lesser elder charms are ridiculously easy to earn in-game, its not P2W.
  1. Taeloria's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Woakerio View Post
    Getting 50 lesser elder charms is stupidly easy..."infinitely worse chance"? Do Isle of Thunder quests/kill mobs/dailies/etc. Now if the charms were a random drop off a handful of mobs at a rate of 1%, then we're talking P2W. As long as lesser elder charms are ridiculously easy to earn in-game, its not P2W.

    That's how I feel. I won't be buying any out of principal, also in part that I get my mogu runes every week and still have more lesser than I know what to do with. If someone wants to purchase some lessens on their own I don't see the problem, my personal experience isn't affected one bit by it. My main point is, I'm not going to complain about ant true p2w schemes (aka auto h-raid clears or even h quality items dropping in lfr, etc) until there's really something to complain about.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    You're naive if you think they'll keep lesser charms insanely easy to get. Why would they charge for them if they were easy? That makes no sense, they'll make no sales. They'll make them harder to acquire to tempt you into purchasing them. That's just insanely obvious.
  1. shadowfyre27's Avatar
    I'm genuinely surprised at how many people are ok with Blizzard selling gear in a cash shop because that is precisely what they are doing with the lesser charms. Alot of people seem to constantly overlook the fact that the lesser charms in a very direct way lead to gear. I pointed this out earlier in the thread. As others like the person above me pointed out if you believe that they will allow non "premium*" players to be able to get the lesser charms as easy as they do now 1 of 2 things is happening. Either your just deluding yourself and don't want to believe the writing that is currently appearing on the wall or Blizzard is even more stupid and idiotic then any of us could have ever thought. Personally I'm leaning towards people deluding themselves, because Blizzard has in the past shown that they are willing to try anything and do anything to make an additional buck.
  1. mmoca9d0c481a5's Avatar
    Bahh, everyone about p2w and mounts. I burst into laughter at Dark Legacy Comics when she proposes to him !
  1. MasterHamster's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowfyre27 View Post
    The funny thing is that's pretty much what they are offering. Technically speaking by offering to sell lesser charms they are by proxy offering to sell you the best gear in game. You can't truthfully say that they aren't. As I pointed out lesser charms lead to a chance at gear. For heroic raiders this means that you can technically speaking purchase thunderforged heroic items. Is it a sure thing you will get a thunderforged heroic item? no, but then you can therefore it is by proxy technically selling BiS gear and that you can't say it isn't.
    Since they'd be paying just to get their 3 Runes faster than other people that week, yes I can safely say it is not p2w to buy Charms. I don't care that Charms -> Runes -> Chance at HC Thunderforge items, so are the ones you get from dailies. If someone is willing to pay to skip the dailies, then they can do it. All they are getting for paying is lesser time spent getting runes. EVERYONE GETS THREE RUNES EVERY WEEK.

    As said, if they allowed you to gain more Runes per week, then we'd have a problem.
    Think for a moment before you jump to these ridiculous conclusions. Runes are capped, therefore the only thing you can earn by buying charms is time, not power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Not sure if serious...
    So imagine you can pay to get gear off ji-kun..you choose to get it that way...
    I mean you're still limited to just what ji-kun drops, just like everyone else that chose not to pay and went and got to him in game. If they let you somehow get more gear off ji-kun that everyone else then that would be a point? Yeah thought so.
    What are you even trying to argue? Paying to get runes faster is like paying to get an extra chance from a boss? Or are you comparing someone who paid for getting his runes versus someone who didn't get theirs at all? Zero sense.

    Think before you post.
    How ironic.
    I figured that buying charms can't be p2w since it doesn't allow you to gain more runes than anyone else that week. Paying for convenience, not power.

    This is the outcome if we are allowed to buy charms (we still don't know details but for now I'm going to go as if we could buy 50 charms for a set sum). Things that theoretically could come after, such as increased charms required for the weekly so people are more likely to pay, or any other conspiracy theory, isn't relevant:

    Player A doesn't want to pay for charms. He does his 20 dailies and gets the rest from other sources.
    He exchanges them for 3 Runes. The weekly maximum.
    Player B doesn't want to do his dailies. He pays [sum] to get 50 lesser charms.
    He exchanges them for 3 Runes.     The weekly maximum.

    Player B did not buy character power. If anything he bought time and convenience.
    Case closed. It's not p2w, no matter how people want to twist and turn it, or speculate about lesser charms becoming harder to get just to boost sales.
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