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Siege of Orgrimmar Heroic Progression
Method is still leading progress with 12/14 bosses down now, followed by Blood Legion, also at 12/14. There are now 12 guilds at 11/14. Over in the 10 player column, Paragon is currently leading with 12/14 bosses down, followed by 3 other guilds at 11/14.

Manaflask got a count of 195 pulls on Blackfuse from Paragon in order to down the boss!

Heroic Norushen Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
I entirely understand the frustration felt by guilds that have already defeated Heroic Norushen this week, or invested significant time attempting his current incarnation. It's never particularly enjoyable to have to relearn a fight you've already defeated and from which you've already received loot and an achievement. Changing an encounter meaningfully once it's in players' hands is not an action we take lightly. I'd like to offer a few general points of clarification:

First, we did read and closely consider all feedback received as a result of Norushen PTR testing. We made a number of adjustments to the encounter as a result of both player feedback and our own observations over the course of testing. Notably, we removed the Draw mechanic that was present for most of the PTR testing cycle, since it caused players to have to throttle their damage as their gear and execution improved. That mechanic was originally added to completely shut down any chance of a brute-force approach, but we believed that the damage penalty from the initial Corruption would be sufficient to require players to use Look Within to purify themselves in order to meet the berserk timer. Clearly we were mistaken, and I'd like to personally apologize for that.

Second, we are not looking to meaningfully increase the difficulty of the encounter. It should, on balance, be a small to moderate step up in difficulty from Heroic Fallen Protectors, and should be easier than Sha of Pride. While we're still iterating on the exact changes, they will likely entail something along the lines of entirely removing the additional pulsed Corruption received from Burst of Anger and Residual Corruption, increasing players' starting Corruption to 75 as is the case on Normal, and adjusting the health of the Amalgam accordingly. We don't expect that most guilds that defeat the encounter this week will experience any notable struggles with the revised version.

Third, in keeping with the general philosophies laid out in the Encounter Tuning Dev Watercooler, a major factor when it comes to deciding whether to make changes to address an unintended strategy is whether the approach actually involves interesting gameplay. Yes, a really tight Patchwerk-style DPS check absolutely can be fun even without any other mechanics involved, and many players had nailbiting kills and wipes on the encounter this week. But in a few more weeks, with a bit more gear, that fun would largely be gone. And for the healers that most raid groups benched in order to add damage-dealers to meet the DPS check, it likely was never there to begin with. Ultimately, this is a change made for the sake of the thousands of guilds that have yet to attempt the encounter, but will in the future. To those who are experiencing the disruption of having the boss change mid-progress, I again apologize. There are many parallels to our handling of Heroic Primordius (and, yes, those parallels do begin with us screwing up the tuning in the first place).

Finally, I've seen a few references in this thread, and elsewhere, to Thok. The change made to Thok last week was entirely a bugfix. Based on our final days of Raid Finder testing on PTR, we decided to completely disable the Acceleration mechanic that increases Thok's energy generation in Raid Finder, since he changes phases based on health % thresholds in that mode. That change inadvertently removed the mechanic from all difficulties, and the 20-hour time period for which the bug was active represents the time it took us to track down the cause, implement a fix, and test that fix before applying it to the live environment. Thok's current energy regen rate is identical to the values seen for the better part of PTR testing. Had we changed nothing, Thok would have been the easiest encounter in the zone rather than one of the more challenging ones, and we are always going to fix bugs that completely trivialize raid encounters. That was a bug that we fixed ASAP. The upcoming Norushen adjustments, however, are design changes that we're going to roll out along with raid resets next week so that they affect everyone equally.

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Item Level Squish
so essentially everything will feel the same? We'll just be putting out smaller numbers?
Exactly. If it takes you 6 seconds to kill a level 90 mob, it still will post squish. (Source)

is there no sense at all that 30 ilvls per tier or equivalent is excessive?
At max level, no. If the numbers don't jump by that amount, the gear feels like side grades. (Source)

Raid Finder
Why delay it? But OK for normal/heroic to blaze through everything in one week.
Your argument would be apples to apples if only 1% of LFR players would blaze through in one week. (Source)

Have you ever thought about ex: "You were present the entire fight, here's an extra bonus roll" in LFR to deter afks?
Yeah, we just have to be careful about detecting that to not punish legit players. (Source)

Hey Greg, any thoughts on gating LFR wings more heavily in future expansions? Influence people to try organized raiding(?).
What we have found historically is the LFR players just don't raid, or even don't play if there isn't enough content. (Source)
We'd love to encourage more players to try organized raiding, but I think we have to lure them in, not beat them in. (Source)

Your purposely trying to push aside people that use LFR as there only means to see content. Way to stick people in a box.
I'm confused. That's not what we're trying to do. (Source)
We would like someone who has run many LFRs to consider Flex for better loot now that they know the fights pretty well. (Source)
Why? If i am happy in lfr why do you want to push me out of it?
Because it provides you more content. Compare: Run LFR until finished vs. Run LFR until finished, THEN run Flex. (Source)

You got a mess on your hands with mobs of 40-50 blood coin raids killing people tryin to farm coins. Huge backlash.
You only earn coins on KBs (by design) so forming big raids isn't super efficient. (Source)

on the topic of PVP being a battle to balance, why not take a queue from Riot and do very small, weekly changes?
It's just a different approach. LoL has 4ish abilities per champion, so you are rarely re-learning whole rotations when they patch. (Source)
For us, small number tweaks rarely cause major differences in PvP. Things like CC, survival or burst move the meter more. (Source)

Regarding PvP? Don't listen to forums. Try to get some in depth from established, skilled legitimate players
We actually do, but that doesn't help the 99% out there who want to be heard but have their message get lost in the noise. (Source)
Trust your own experienced developers instead of forums. Cant democratize art. Too Many Cooks Spoil the Broth
We agree, and this isn't a democratic process, but we do like to gather feedback to make informed decisions. (Source)
The process of gathering feedback is made less efficient when players over-reward shallow points or squelch dissent. (Source)

so why does below 90 pvp don't matter? hunters disc, dks all broken, fix their scaling for 85+ please op/not fun/imbalanced
It matters. It just matters less than max level, which is what by far most players express concern about. (Source)

How is that any different from normal pvp gear being required to compete in pvp?
Presumably a PvP legendary would come with a process more involved than normal Conq gear. (Source)
Which makes me ask what would the motivation for PvP gear taking longer to acquire? (Source)

Proving Grounds
in Top100 healers on proving grounds there are only 5 priests, dont you find it a bit strange for class with 2 healing specs?
Like any encounter, the specific PG mechanics are more favorable to some specs than others. (Source)
We could make spec-specific tweaks, but does that violate the spirit of PG? (Source)

Timeless Isle
The albatross taxi service on timeless isle is the single most frustrating and annoying thing implemented in WoW.
If that's truly the case, then I'd say we're doing pretty well overall. (Source)
Also a sad commentary that players would rather kill something than see another player benefit from it. (Source)

do you think the emperor shaohao rep is a little over bearing? Or is there something missing, daily quests not giving rep..
Path of the Mistwalker will soon provide some rep. Overall though that rep is intended as a long term goal and investment. (Source)

Poll: Best World PvE Content
Which patch had the best daily quests and solo / small group content so far? Feel free to share what you liked (and didn't like) in the comments!

Fan Art Update
The World of Warcraft Fan Art Section has been updated with new pieces of fan artwork.

This article was originally published in forum thread: SoO Progression, Heroic Norushen Changes, Blue Tweets, Poll: PvE Content, Fan Art started by chaud View original post
Comments 82 Comments
  1. lanstarfire's Avatar
    China has three guilds already passed the H12
  1. Rioo's Avatar
    Voted for Timeless Isle because fuck dailies. Even still, there really isn't enough to do on the island. It's really small.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunneh View Post
    One reason it's doing well on the poll, is as everyone has said, it's new.
    If you actually read the comments you'd see that has nothing to do with it and that people hating dailies is why it's winning.
  1. raps's Avatar
    Either this poll shows that people are excited by whats currently in front of them, or that they just love places that throw free gear at their alts. (Or maybe 5.4 is just that much better than everything else this patch.)

    5.0 was great for variety, but ended up being too much work to get anywhere. Along with having gating a few reps to extend the pain and suffering.
    5.1 had a great storytelling aspect. It definitely felt like you were progressing and the solo senario's worked well. The patch lacked real content though.
    5.2 was insane to start. Too many people crammed in such a small space. The solo senarios did a decent job telling the story, but they felt a little boring (maybe the story just wasn't that good.) As the island opened up, I started to enjoy the dailies more. The gating was a waste though. You unlocked a world boss and different dailies. Not very exciting.
    5.3 was good. A decent storyline, along with a pretty simple catch up mechanic for alts. There wasn't a ton of content, but it was done well in my opinion.
    5.4 is a waste of time. It doesn't add anything to the story of the expansion. All you do is kill anything that moves. Its good for people who like to grind. It gives people the option to burn through the content as quickly as they like, without being gated by daily quests. It's not really for me. Too many people in a small area fighting over the same mobs. It seems to bring out the worst the game has to offer.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lanstarfire View Post
    China has three guilds already passed the H12
    Asia doesn't count.
  1. caballitomalo's Avatar
    Timeless Isle would have been "perfect" to me if they had added just a few more daily quests. Not as many as Thunder Isle but a few that changed every day.

    I still think Thunder Isle was a better design. Long term rep goals. Lots of Rare spawns that gave VPs. Solo scenario, trove chests, summoned bosses and weekly quest. It was really fun and had lots of optios.

    Timless Isle responded too strongly to the "we hate dailies" chant. But is still a solid design.
  1. F-Minus's Avatar
    If they don't make tons of dailies like they did with Thunder Isle, you get the Timeless Isle where you have nothing to do at all if you're not achievement hunting and looking to gear alts. To me, the Timeless Isle feels like a tack-on, and bar the legendary cloak quests and killing Ordos and the Celestials each week, I was there exactly 3 times and am already super bored of it. I don't want to grind through 1000 mobs to get the rep up either.

    I raid normal/heroic but I still like solo content and even daily quests if the rewards are appropriate, I was doing the Thunder Isle every day until the rep was done, but this new island is just boring, with nothing to do, except for the weekly boss kills.
  1. Laylriana's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    That is what I think the devs are missing.. they always have this all-or-nothing attitude. The probelm with 5.0 wasn´t dailies.. it was SO MANY GOLDEN LOTUS DAILIES.. There should always be a mix of things.. Storytelling dailies with scenario arcs like in 5.1, unlocking content like Isle of thunder, and then just a bunch of little cool things like timeless island.

    Golden Lotus was terrible, the rest of the 5.0 dailies were fine.

    But as others said.. in a few months, this poll will change when TI becomes nothing ( well, already is) but running in big circles looking for skulls on your minimap.

    A little of this, a little of that, keeps things fresh. Shao really should have 4 daily quests per day out of a pool of 12 or so.
    You have to love the way Blizz fixed the problem of too many Golden Lotus dailies - they just had Garrosh blast them all away except for 3 in the west. LOL.
  1. Gniral's Avatar
    i'm quite shocked to see the timeless isle on top. i have no idea how could somebody enjoy it.
    its the most horrible grind ever introduced in wow... basically everything in it is a massive grind with 0 story.

    5.1 was far superior in terms of story, while the isle of thunder was superior in every other aspect: ambience, long-term objectives, variety, lore.
    i'm an achievement whore and i absolutely hate the thought of staying there any longer...
  1. Spotnick's Avatar
    If you don't collect pets or mounts, and you are a heroic raider, there really isn't anything interesting on Timeless Island.

    Sure I got loot for my alts, but it's kind of pointless. What am I gonna do on them? LFR?
  1. Rolly's Avatar
    Timeless Isle is the laziest, cheapest content patch in the history of WOW.
    Stumble around on an island opening chests for epic gear, what a fucking joke. This is what they came up with after saying 5-mans were "too easy to gear up in".
    I'll bet some intern got a pat on the back for coming up with the idea of zero quest lines or story on the island and calling it "player directed".
    And hey let's not forget making areas "exclusive" with access only if you have the right gear, got to get people to do the RNG clusterfuck that the legendary quest line is somehow I guess.
    What they have done to professions is beyond stupid. Blathering about getting people out in the world while removing any need to do so for mats and turning them into a daily RNG pile of shit.

    This dev team that took over mid Wrath is destroying the game and in the process they are removing just about every single thing the previous team did that made the game so popular, kind of like that new grocery store manager who moves everything around just to show everyone who's the boss.

    Here's hoping one of the new games coming out don't suck ass.
  1. Bullderp's Avatar
    Manaflask got a count of 195 pulls on Blackfuse from Paragon in order to down the boss!
    Jesus. How anyone could find that fun boggles my mind. To each their own, I guess.
  1. Freia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lanstarfire View Post
    China has three guilds already passed the H12

    Wouldn't matter anyways because their 25m geared players could probably just go faceroll 10m.
  1. Toadstone's Avatar
    That post about Norushen reads like an apologetic love letter to WoW's small group of heroic raiders. I don't remember a time when changes to other areas of the game came with a big, wet, sloppy "i'm sorry".
  1. Pandiocko's Avatar
    For me, the most fun at Klaxxi reputation. This is a really powerful story same like quest for Anduin Wrynn. Actly, all of Operation: Shieldwall.
    Black Prince got me perfectly to fight, his dialogues are excellent. I would like to experience something similar in the future.
  1. Rizendragon's Avatar
    5.0 and 5.1 were my favorite with 5.0 only slightly pulling ahead.

    I felt like I was actually part of the storyline and it felt like we had to slowly gain trust with the Pandaren before being allowed to tackle some of the real issues that faced the continent.

    The same goes for 5.1 except that we were facing off against the opposite faction and the Mogu in a race for an item of power.
  1. Bubblykiss's Avatar
    I was a bit surprised that anybody voted for the barrens weekly quests. I did them twice. One on 2 different toons for the title.
  1. Pacster's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubblykiss View Post
    I was a bit surprised that anybody voted for the barrens weekly quests. I did them twice. One on 2 different toons for the title.

    Yeah, I spent quite some time there...but I didn't enjoy a minute.

    I like the timeless isle. Some interesting new mechanics(for open world PvE and PvP) and a lot to discover.
    Okay, the reputation grind was uncalled for(yes, you don't have to do it...on the other hand: Stupid grinding is NO content, Blizz!!!) idea why hunters and warlocks get a free ride when it comes to solo killing whatever they want on the isle due to easy mode tanking pets(and that after Blizz already had the same problem mit zandalari warbringers. You'd think they learned out of that)...and the bird-taxi could fly A LOT faster....but that's about all the things I can complain about.
    I'm on a completely dead server(and server pool) I can see it all without of getting killed every 5 minutes and I only have to fight for rep-mobs at high traffic(means 50 players are online) hours...and usually I'm then competing with xrealm players that try to farm on my server.
  1. Zokten's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Maho View Post
    World PvP? Lol. I tell you what is world PvP right now: 60+ players standing all in one place, spamming AoE, and everyone and everything around are lagging like hell. This is your "world PvP".

    I don't like Timeless Isle. It's just non stop killing everything around. Very boring.
    Way to not talk about PvP
  1. ashblond's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post

    Wouldn't matter anyways because their 25m geared players could probably just go faceroll 10m.
    wowprogress never updates Chinese servers.

    There is already a Chinese guild 13/14 now.

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