Armory Stats - Player Raid Completion Rates, Blue Tweets, GW2 on Sale, Fan Art Update

More Paragon 2.0 Clarifications, More on "Create a Legendary", Community Commentary: Quality of Life, Curse Weekly Roundup

Armory Stats - Player Raid Completion Rates
Today we are taking a look at the overall raid completion rate of players. Now that achievements are account wide, we can group characters by account and get an idea of what percentage of players (not characters) have completed a raid at least once, based on earning the achievement for the final wing.

The data used today is a sample from 6.3 million characters from 2.5 million accounts. The sample is slightly biased, as players who are not in a guild are much less likely to appear in our sample. You can leave suggestions for future stat posts in the comments!

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Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Raid Finder
GC, lack of tanks has to be one of the main problems you guys need to work on - 45+ min LFR queue as DPS, is just not cool.
It seems to have gotten worse with 5.4. We're looking at the data to try to understand what's going on. (Source)
If you want to know why there is less tanks. Please tank a lfr and you will have your answers.
If that was the only issue, it would likely be a gradual decline not a sudden drop at 5.4. That implies it's flex (or a bug). (Source)

then take a look at it before you say it doesnt guarantee everything.
There are guys in LFR doing 10K dps because they don't realize that e.g. you should use abilities as fast as you can. (Source)
In that environment, being able to do any kind of PG will help teach that player how WoW combat should really be played. (Source)
And yet the enrage timers in SoO LFR are tuned as though this was not the case.
Hitting enrage timers in LFR is nearly always a lack of understanding the mechanics rather than just low DPS. (Source)
That's still on us to fix, but we'd rather not just dial down all the mechanics until you can just ignore them. (Source)
My concern and experience is that SoO LFR seems to be tuned for a level of skill and gear that the mode no longer attracts.
The feedback was very similar for ToT LFR until players knew the fights better. (Source)

No PG experience can be a substitute for the 10 years of raiding that many of us have, but it can serve as an introduction. (Source)
Did i get you wrong that it should be an additional prerequisite? Or would it either be ilevel or pgs?
Yeah, we would never require PGs for LFR. It would just be a way to demonstrate that you didn't need the ilevel. (Source)

Just heard the best description of LFR "If someone tells me to eat a pile of crap for $10 million, I'll eat the pile of crap"
I get that, but there are also heroic raiders who get bored once the loot stops rolling it. (Source)
So you can't just argue that every activity must be so fun that the rewards don't play into someone's desire to do it. (Source)

Please don't remove the ability to enter LFR purely on iLevel. Forcing PG medal would effectively shut off LFR for too many.
The idea I floated, and Olivia even referenced, was PG letting you enter with a lower ilevel because you know what you're doing. (Source)

what is the future for lfr now you have split its community in two with flex raiding. it seems from in game play lfr is done.
LFR is still more popular than flex. However we think flex will be more fun for many of our players so we don't mind some transition (Source)

Why is kick protection a thing? having people do nothing and be toxic intentionally is rather frustrating
It was originally to protect folks in 5-player content from e.g. being kicked so they couldn't roll on loot. (Source)
We are considering that kick rules might be too strict on 25-player LFR, where one toxic player can affect a bunch of others. (Source)

I dont understand why people get so hyped about LFD being unsocial. It isnt.Without it, only a few would see content
It's pretty unsocial but it still serves a valuable purpose. (Source)

Class Balance Discussion
there are dozens of fan sites for that. The entire point of having an official forum is to talk to the devs directly.
Just to be clear, that is not our goal for the official forums. (Source)
question and run stats on the collected data. Allows massive and robust sample.
Agreed, but it has one massive downside, in that there is no back and forth discussion among players, which I really value. (Source)
Regardless, the forums serve two purposes: people complaining to Blizzard; people trolling those people.
While that exists, I find that view a little cynical. There are good discussions with a lot of back and forth as well. (Source)
We learn a lot when there is back and forth between two sides, especially if we can ascertain why they feel a certain way. (Source)

I always see the same people trolling for nerfs and crusading against certain classes. Everyone Is OP except me
As a team, we're a lot more interested in fun than balance. It's just for some players they are tightly connected. (Source)
And of course fun is subjective, so one can't just play the "X isn't fun for me - change it" card. (Source)
That there is too much content that requires balance and not enough content that encourages variety?
It's concern, but we're a lot better at making the "balance" content than we are the "variety" content. (Source)

Guild Wars 2 Sale
It looks like Guild Wars 2 is on sale today, but only until Sunday night at 11:59 PM PDT. This is the lowest sale price so far, so now is a decent time to pick up a copy if you wanted to give it a try. You can find regular GW2 news updates over at GW2Guru.



Fan Art Update
Blizzard has updated the art gallery to feature ten new pieces.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Armory Stats - Player Raid Completion Rates, Blue Tweets, GW2 on Sale, Fan Art Update started by chaud View original post
Published on 2013-10-20 10:41 PM
99 Comments
Comments 99 Comments
  1. Goretex's Avatar
    I think what sucks for me at least this expansion is. I wasn't able to complete HoF, ToeS, on norm because guild I was in fell apart. I got into I thought was a good guild we got to Lei Shen hit a slight wall. Then a week before the patch 5.4, the raid leader decides to replace 3 or 4 of us core raiders with pugs to down lei shen. I came every week prepared and ready to down him so after that happened without the raid leader letting us know I left the guild. Now I'm in a friends guild he said he was gonna rebuild but he is never on, it only has 16 people and can't get any recruits to join the guild.

    I would like to get more of my friends into the guild and raid but most of my friends are on at different times and have RL stuff and don't have time to raid. So yeah didn't get lei shen kill yet, and I'm in a pickle I would kinda like to server Xferr all my toons but I have to watch my budget. So right now it looks like it's lfr for me I guess I need new friends or something since my friends are all on at different times.
  1. mmoc1cd97851be's Avatar
    Beararmz - I was there, it sucks. Is your server really quiet?
  1. Goretex's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    I hope that it is realised that you can unlink your characters (as I have done) by using an option in game. This means that there can be many characters not tied together via achievement.
    Why would you do that though? Seems shady to be honest, like you have something to hide by not showing your achievements.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by faerierhona View Post
    Beararmz - I was there, it sucks. Is your server really quiet?
    Yeah I think it's dying, but I'm hesitant to server Xfer because of virtual realms coming up. Our server does have a few guilds recruiting, but they're willing to replace people constantly because of 25 man raiding and some guilds just have too many of one class. That's not what I'm looking for I don't want to be put on boss X and sit out on boss Y then put back in on the next boss. I'm just in a place where I really don't know what to do except lfr and pug flex if I want to raid. I miss my friends I used to raid with but now they're online at different times, don't want to raid, or are not online at all And it seems like most the guilds recruiting are a bunch of douche bags who are willing to kick you because you make a mistake or two.

    I don't mind LFR but que times are rediculous, plus I'd like to raid normal or flex.. LFR is a bit below my skill lvl.
  1. xenogear3's Avatar
    36% first wing.
    That is really low.
    Many people must unsub or never come back.
  1. Osmeric's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    36% first wing.
    That is really low.
    Many people must unsub or never come back.
    I wonder if this is people who were doing LFR for gear rather than fun, then getting to the last tier, and thinking "wait, this isn't fun, why am I gearing up again?"

    It's not a good thing for the game if people fall off the gear treadmill like that.
  1. mmoc85b5fb0de1's Avatar
    I just always felt that Blizzard had something against tanks having fun.

    Cataclysm I mained my Blood DK and I loved everything about it. I could compete in PvP in both arenas and BG's doing what I wanted to do (Tanking). I loved running dungeons and raids because it was fun rather than purely loot driven.

    But taking vengeance out of PvP (It definitely needed adjusting, not scrapping), the changes to tanks in PvP in regards to flag carrying, queueing as a tank rather than just queueing as a player, vengeance getting nerfed every other patch. They have taken away so many times and rarely give anything back.

    The drop in 5.4 is from the mechanics of SoO LFR. Its just frustrating to play through and coordinate. I'm not saying take them out so we can ignore them, i'm saying tone them down so that if a few guys get it wrong once or twice, its not a complete wipe for everyone.

    I read the reply to the lack of tanks as "We are taking away your fun toys one by one and we have no idea why don't you like playing as much any more."
  1. Pacster's Avatar
    *GC, lack of tanks has to be one of the main problems you guys need to work on - 45+ min LFR queue as DPS, is just not cool.
    It seems to have gotten worse with 5.4. We're looking at the data to try to understand what's going on. (Source)
    If you want to know why there is less tanks. Please tank a lfr and you will have your answers.
    If that was the only issue, it would likely be a gradual decline not a sudden drop at 5.4. That implies it's flex (or a bug). *

    The better players have flex on top of normal and maybe heroic now. As a result the quality of lfr-players did drop. This in addition to some pretty hard lfr mechanics(stop-damage+very crucial waves of adds) results in many wipes. Why should tanks that always have an instant invite go lfr if they can get better loot at flex with less wipes...while the mechanic pretty much stays the same for the tanks? And not to forget: The tanks are the princess of WoW...for many expansions already they got instant invites and jump ship whenever something isn't working instantly. In lfr we got 2 tanks...5 or so healers...and the rest is dd's....still I think I see way more healers and tanks leave than dd. That shows the attitude of many, many tanks...(how about some "can't join another flex or lfr untill group finished and 30 minutes penalty on top of that"? That would make them think twice).
  1. Thunderball's Avatar
    These percentages are ridiculously high. By the looks of it the game has nothing to do but to raid.
  1. mmoc1cd97851be's Avatar
    [QUOTE= Yeah I think it's dying, but I'm hesitant to server Xfer because of virtual realms coming up. Our server does have a few guilds recruiting, but they're willing to replace people constantly because of 25 man raiding and some guilds just have too many of one class. That's not what I'm looking for I don't want to be put on boss X and sit out on boss Y then put back in on the next boss. I'm just in a place where I really don't know what to do except lfr and pug flex if I want to raid. I miss my friends I used to raid with but now they're online at different times, don't want to raid, or are not online at all And it seems like most the guilds recruiting are a bunch of douche bags who are willing to kick you because you make a mistake or two.

    I don't mind LFR but que times are rediculous, plus I'd like to raid normal or flex.. LFR is a bit below my skill lvl.[/QUOTE]

    For raiding normal I do recommend oQueue, it's pretty good for finding folks and of course is XRealm. A few months ago I bit the bullet - Bronzebeard EU was so dead I could play for hours and not see anyone. I transferred one toon and deleted the rest - best decision ever!
  1. mmoc198caea9b6's Avatar
    The WAY too long lockout on LFR wings dont help with the percentages. Really what are they thinking, no wonder percentages are low when it takes around 2 months to unlock all parts, and when 1 month is the lowest sub model. Now after Blizzcon might get some players back, myself included. A long break don't hurt at all on LFR level content patches. Then again I did do first and second wing before my sub ranout.
  1. jimlow's Avatar
    if anything this chart shows how vital LFR is to the lifeblood of this game. I wish we could break the data out by % of mode completed. If only 2% have completed SoO on Flex/normal/heroic that stands to reason that the great majority of the player base pretty much exclusively plays LFR. Which basically means its never going to go away.

    So for as much hate as I see on this forum for LFR that IS raiding to the vast majority of the player base. Its not flex/normal/heroic its LFR.
  1. Vreivai's Avatar
    I'm curious as to where the data for raid completion rates was pulled from. Is it achievements, or the raid progression section of someone's armory? If it's the latter, the completion rate for the fourth wing of SoO is very, very wrong, as the website is bugged such that killing the wrong boss last on the Paragons of the Klaxxi encounter will cause it to not record the kill.

    Another thing to consider is that these data don't show the number of players that completed each raid. It shows the number of characters that completed it. For example, I have 4 characters at level 90. I've only downed Garrosh on one of them. The others are around 460 item level or lower.
  1. buddah13's Avatar
    I honestly just have not cared enough to finish the end raid, i find myself alot doing that, I don't want to quest or farm or anything, I think its time to step back from this game for a while, until they get things figured out, the carrot on the stick no longer tastes good and the the stick itself seems to be getting longer
  1. chaud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Vreivai View Post
    I'm curious as to where the data for raid completion rates was pulled from. Is it achievements, or the raid progression section of someone's armory? If it's the latter, the completion rate for the fourth wing of SoO is very, very wrong, as the website is bugged such that killing the wrong boss last on the Paragons of the Klaxxi encounter will cause it to not record the kill.

    Another thing to consider is that these data don't show the number of players that completed each raid. It shows the number of characters that completed it. For example, I have 4 characters at level 90. I've only downed Garrosh on one of them. The others are around 460 item level or lower.
    Now that achievements are account wide, we can group characters by account and get an idea of what percentage of players (not characters) have completed a raid at least once, based on earning the achievement for the final wing.
    My original post answered both of your questions. Please read before asking questions. It is a few sentences, not a book.
  1. hyphnos's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball View Post
    These percentages are ridiculously high. By the looks of it the game has nothing to do but to raid.
    Basically you're right. I came back for 5.4 and I'm doing what I did in 4.3 except this time instead of being 19 ilvls behind normal raid after "catch-up" mechanics, you're basically 50ish ilvls behind and the only way to get back into the 25 range is to run LFR or move to Flex.

    I'd love to see those numbers above without LFR only players.
  1. Azrile's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Crista View Post
    The WAY too long lockout on LFR wings dont help with the percentages. Really what are they thinking, no wonder percentages are low when it takes around 2 months to unlock all parts, and when 1 month is the lowest sub model. Now after Blizzcon might get some players back, myself included. A long break don't hurt at all on LFR level content patches. Then again I did do first and second wing before my sub ranout.
    the release schedule was the same as always.. LFR is always released in stages months later
  1. yajinni's Avatar
    I LOVE stat stuff like this.
    Can this be broken off into its own section?
    Also why the bias against people not in guilds?
  1. chaud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by yajinni View Post
    Also why the bias against people not in guilds?
    It is just harder for me to come across them. I don't constantly check auctions for new characters we haven't seen yet, only a few times a week, so we will only discover them if they have an auction up while I am checking.
  1. brok3nh3lix's Avatar
    I stopped tanking LFR simply because of gear. I only bothered before to catch up in certain slots or for the legendary quest while my guild was still working on normal's.

    Now, im allready at 550ilvl, and all of my gear from TOT was allready upgraded. the LFR loot is just not enough of an upgrade for me to want run SoO an extra time while dealing with some really horrible people at the same time. I could use the valor (i happened to get a glut of gear the last 2 weeks, and haven't upgraded it all yet), but the valor reward amounts simply are not enough for me to bother with the time investment over h scenarios or daily heroic which i can pretty much carry any amount of bad in and be done in about 10 mins.

    Flex can fill in the slots better than LFR, can be run with a small group of players who are organized and is more engaging. My guild is also 7/14 normal now, further reducing the amount of slots LFR would benefit us compared to gear we are getting on raid nights.

    TLDR: the reward structure is bad for those who arnt strictly raiding LFR
  1. Daez's Avatar
    The thing is... Blizzard keeps trying to force people to go against their actual wills. That is something that takes years of practice. There are plenty of people that play MMORPGs simply because they are never ending video games. These people really do not desire to be social at all, and Blizzard keeps wanting them to be more social. The people that want to be more social are already in guilds and are already in raiding guilds if that is what they desire to do. There is definitely two separate groups of gamers in WoW. Those that do not desire to have social ties are not suddenly going to get them.

    Blizzard feels that these people are more likely to leave the game because they lack these social ties. That is far from the truth. The truth is that these people are more likely to leave the game because Blizzard continuously treats them like second class citizens, and getting a piece of gear with "Raid Finder" attached simply because this group does not want to form social connections (more like social ass kissing) that is needed in order to get "Heroic" gear is simply something that this group simply does not want to do.
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