Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

Patch 5.4.2 PTR - Build 17585

Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

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This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1056 Comments
  1. mmoc3d7f422663's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Karragon View Post
    It's not ok because they are removing convenience from the game. If we are spoilt it is because Blizzard has spoilt us, you can't put the genie back in the bottle without upsetting people

    Yes and convienience can also kill fun or at least diminish it just as much as the other way.

    There are flight paths too :P. Imagine Classic wow was fine with flight paths that worked a lot worse than nowadays one and we still managed easily.

    There were fewer FPs and they were not chained together. Nowadays flight paths are barely used probably. I wouldn't mind if we used them a little more often.
  1. Perkunas's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    I like it. Would be more immersive too.
    Oh, and they need to be faster than our 310% so you can't just run away. With 3x the aggro distance and no leash until you're knocked off the mount. This would be my dream. Let people take risks if they want to fly.
  1. mmoc489da90f09's Avatar
    A question about the beta key for Hearthstone!
    I am useing the beta app on my comp and thought "Yes! I will get a beta key!". But then I followed the link to the older post were they said that people in the closed beta will get a beta key to Hearthstone. What do they mean? As I said I am useing the app but idk if it is closed or not xD
    I know I got a email saying something like "Test the battle.net desktop app".
    So, the question is: Will I get a beta key?

    On the flying thing:
    I love that you will not be able to fly until (i guess) 6.1. It will make everything much better!
    I like flying but I think this will be good anyway.
  1. maniac2009's Avatar
    Going to BC for ideas is a step in the right direction. Glad they see that now.
  1. rogas's Avatar
    Yea questing in cataclysm was much better then mop. And mop also didn't provided flying mounts. The quality of the questing experience has nothing to do with flying or not. It's the compelling storyline that does that! One that was non-existent in mop questing.
  1. mmoc3d7f422663's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by vandam View Post
    Delete rogue Vanish .
    It allow them to avoid combat.

    Delete Rogue stealth.
    It alow them to go directly to the quest final objective.

    Delete them cause it destroy the imersion.
    That's not a valid argument. It's missing the entire point of what they tried to convey.
  1. mmoc85788fc2c9's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    Oh, and they need to be faster than our 310% so you can't just run away. With 3x the aggro distance and no leash until you're knocked off the mount. This would be my dream. Let people take risks if they want to fly.
    Or put cannons on the ground that target players who are flying
  1. mmoc37d54b0df8's Avatar
    interesting.
    If they realise flying trivialises content whilst levelling, surely it trivialises content whilst at max level.

    So any world content they put in at max, is by definition trivialised.

    Seams Bliz is pretty clear they dont like flying.

    personally I'd be looking at ways to remove free flying. maybe make flight points where you can use your own mount to travel between them, but not free flying.
  1. Perkunas's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by tranmet View Post
    Or put cannons on the ground that target players who are flying


    I like you! You're thinking outside the box.
  1. mmoc6e28ee9d8b's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Killyox View Post
    Right back at you. Don't put us to play the way YOU want.

    Seriously. Why do you think your way of playing is better/more important/the only good choice? Go play Aion if you want flying :P
    But he is not forcing a singular option upon you. He doesn't want to take your precious ground mounts away and keep only flying. He wants to only keep in the way it is now - possibility to choose between ground and flying mounts. He is giving a choice to everyone, you are forcing a single option to everyone. His way is better, because it keeps the possibility for you to play your way - the ground mount way.
  1. phyx's Avatar
    I'm really happy about that change. By these answers and reasoning of some posters seems like WoW will get rid off a nice chunk of toxic players. People who want to quit over means of travel really shouldn't be heard at all. What does flying bring - faster traveling. What does it take? A whole number of things. So if you think about it just for a tini-tiny minute it doesn't not make any sense at higher levels. This whole thread can be summed up in 'QQ more' because that's what this is. It's like people quitting over removing orange color of copper. Skipping an expansion for this? Be my guest. Blizzard will have less moaners on their hands. I just hope they won't cave in.

    Remember, it's Blizzard who gave you that flying option, it's Blizzard who will take it (temporary). Regarding you want to have an option. You will have it eventually. It's a little sad that people are so self-entitled. Yes you pay for a sub, so do I, but that doesn't mean you are right, or have a right to demand things. 'Blizzard give me a submarine for water exploration or I WILL VOTE WITH MY WALLET'. So sad. But again, at least we're filtering out.
  1. Katharine's Avatar
    It's like Blizzard has been looking for ways to lose subscribers. First it was the Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdor revamp being released unfinished and the Cataclysm 5-man difficulty. Then it was the no-flying in Pandaria(even for alts) until max level. Now it's this stupid waiting until 6.1 for flying.
  1. thebdc's Avatar
    So will they also remove stealth from rouges and droods?
  1. rogas's Avatar
    Honestly i don't mind if we have flying during questing/ levelling up. The thing that bug me is the fact blizz thinks that taking away flying will improve the questing experience. Because it really don't solve a thing if wod only consists of a 1000 boring ' fetch me this, kill me that- quests. The only thing that will improve wod questing are awesome epic storylines. Like they did in cataclysm.
  1. Divine Path's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Killyox View Post
    That's not a valid argument. It's missing the entire point of what they tried to convey.
    So what is the point they tried to convey then?
  1. Dura's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirra View Post
    But he is not forcing a singular option upon you. He doesn't want to take your precious ground mounts away and keep only flying. He wants to only keep in the way it is now - possibility to choose between ground and flying mounts. He is giving a choice to everyone, you are forcing a single option to everyone. His way is better, because it keeps the possibility for you to play your way - the ground mount way.
    You are delusional if you think there is a choise.

    If you have to go to work. you have the option to
    A take your bike and ride 15miles before gettign to work.
    B Take public transport
    or C Take your car.

    What do you take? if there aint any money involved etc. people want to travel the most efficient way takign the car saves Alot of time and other hassels like in public transport. You will choose C

    Now lets go back to WoW:
    A ground mount having to fight your way to the quest area.
    or B go ziiinng and be there in a second.

    There is no choise if Option B is available you will choose B and you are seriously delusional if you think A is an option compared to B
  1. kassy's Avatar
    Hs beta "special gift", with open beta coming in a couple weeks, gg =p
  1. mmocff59137b32's Avatar
    Awesome move :>
  1. mmoc3d7f422663's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Path View Post
    So what is the point they tried to convey then?
    That's something they already explained. Won't bother repeating them. You should analyze it if you don't understand it well enough to comapre rogue's vanish to being able to fly away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirra View Post
    But he is not forcing a singular option upon you. He doesn't want to take your precious ground mounts away and keep only flying. He wants to only keep in the way it is now - possibility to choose between ground and flying mounts. He is giving a choice to everyone, you are forcing a single option to everyone. His way is better, because it keeps the possibility for you to play your way - the ground mount way.
    Well guess what I am not forcing anything on anyone either. I am playing Devil's Advocate whuile myself being indifferent to whatever they decide to do.

    Also you are wrong about one thing. Having option to choose may be bad because some things don't work when they are half done. Things they want to achieve with disabling flying until 6.1 are only going to succeed if everyone cannot fly until then. Half measures don't work in this case.

    They DON'T want you to be able to just fly away from everything. And because of that they don't want anyone to be able to fly 6.1. It's not a matter of choice. Your choice to fly and escape is in contradiction to their idea of you not being able to do it.
  1. mmocee9d117667's Avatar
    I think the main issue that Blizzard is failing to see here, is recognizing people whom play a lot of alts.

    While sound in reasoning and all - having read all of Bashioks posts in that thread - they're still essentialy saying "Deal with it" to people whom have a lot of alts to level.

    Now, i hate levling. Beyond any messure of this game, i hate it. But that's only because it's extremely gated and repetetive/lack of challenge/lack of anything really.
    You go through once, cool - you seen cool stuff. You go through twice, that stuff gonna get repetetive. Now i have several characters, more then 2.

    So essentialy my hopes are that they bloody fix the whole idea of "Levling should be a slow grind" - cause if not, i ain't levling alts. Simple.

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