Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

Patch 5.4.2 PTR - Build 17585

Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

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This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1056 Comments
  1. derpkitteh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by manswtor View Post
    You earned f all, you got gold via leveling and bough flying instantly.
    have fun with that idea. i don't give much of a shit what you think.

    i've earned my mounts through the gold and real money i've spent on them, time invested and now apparently wasted. they can go enjoy the cock sucking they're getting from people like you now. i've got 3 other people i can get to not buy the expansion as well, so they can enjoy at least 4 less subs now.
  1. mmoc17fef60d65's Avatar
    I have read a lot of comments overhere. I see a lot drama from people. Propably all of the people crying or the 90% of them, havent played vanilla WoW(proly kids that came when the game became a more commercial game. Im ofc +1 for what blizzard does, with not allowing flying mounts until 6.0.1. AAAAAAAAAAAA lot of world pvp is comming(thats being told from me. A pure pve dedicated player). Thanks blizzard for giving us this back. I wish more things from vanila and tbc comes back.
  1. jrr's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshrag View Post
    No flying worked in vanilla and it will work in WOD (untill first patch) .....people like me loved vanilla cause you could explore every corner while you had no flying mount. AND back those day werent so much world details as it will be in the new xpac....so me will love this.
    That resoningissent valid.

    You cant compare the gaming experince of a game over 8 years old.

    i played ALOT of diablo 1 + 2 back in the day and found them very nice, i bught the anual pass to get d3, just as a warm up i installer diablo2 to get into that great game again... it was horrible to play d2 again, not only the grafix but the gaming experince...

    GAMES HAVE EVOLVED
  1. Karragon's Avatar
    To put it into perspective for some of you, it's like Blizzard saying there'll be normal and heroic raids at launch but we're not going to let you run Mythic mode till 6.1 because we feel Mythic mode breaks the immersion.
  1. mmocfb686d6b5c's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jrr View Post
    Yea you are the moron that is the cause that ppl are in an uproar about removing flying.
    Why dont you go spend you time in bg and arena where ppl can fight back....or is that to much of a chalange....
    It's not my fault people like you make it so much fun.

    have fun with that idea. i don't give much of a shit what you think.

    i've earned my mounts through the gold and real money i've spent on them, time invested and now apparently wasted. they can go enjoy the cock sucking they're getting from people like you now. i've got 3 other people i can get to not buy the expansion as well, so they can enjoy at least 4 less subs now.
    Holy shit someone needs to remove the Eiffel tower out of their arse.

    Please, go ahead and leave (we all know you'll be back though. See you at launch!)
    To put it into perspective for some of you, it's like Blizzard saying there'll be normal and heroic raids at launch but we're not going to let you run Mythic mode till 6.1 because we feel Mythic mode breaks the immersion.
    Did you actually just make that comparison?

    Like... really?
  1. VanishO2's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jrr View Post
    That resoningissent valid.

    You cant compare the gaming experince of a game over 8 years old.

    i played ALOT of diablo 1 + 2 back in the day and found them very nice, i bught the anual pass to get d3, just as a warm up i installer diablo2 to get into that great game again... it was horrible to play d2 again, not only the grafix but the gaming experince...

    GAMES HAVE EVOLVED
    For WoW, as anyone with common sense will say, flying mounts were a huge mistake, it is not "evolved" in this case. It would be perfect if TBC was the last expansion. Not when it is just the second of so many more.

    Anyways, they want to put stuff for you to discover via exploring every "out of the way"/"hard to reach" path, wich would be pointless with flying.

    You can bet that there will be feats of strengh to get all this stuff before flying is avaiable in 6.1, like those FoS for heroic bosses before the next patch.
  1. mmoc17fef60d65's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jrr View Post
    That resoningissent valid.

    You cant compare the gaming experince of a game over 8 years old.

    i played ALOT of diablo 1 + 2 back in the day and found them very nice, i bught the anual pass to get d3, just as a warm up i installer diablo2 to get into that great game again... it was horrible to play d2 again, not only the grafix but the gaming experince...

    GAMES HAVE EVOLVED
    That doesnt mean its not good to have back some things from the old game. Blizzard changed most of them to become a more commercial game for more profit. I agree with him and i think the game has to do that. Plus it will happen for only one patch not permanent sadly. Relax and enjoy the envolved game graphics and the world blizzard is making from scratch. Imo its not a patch of waiting but a half patch waiting based on time requirement to lvl etc
  1. Karragon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TeslaHolmes View Post
    Did you actually just make that comparison?

    Like... really?
    Yes, yes I did because that's how stupid I find this restriction on flying
  1. Biomega's Avatar
    Gods forbid they come up with a solution such as designing fights and the environment in a way that would WANT to make people experience them up close! No, the only way to design these days is to force people into enjoying the content. LOOK AT THIS ROCK! LOOK AT IT!!! Amazing. I guess if I ever end up buying WoD at all, I'll do it after 6.1.
  1. neghinitza's Avatar
    I can already see it. 7.0 .. Remember when you pressed '/' and you were able to run for the first time .. we want to recapture that epic moment. So for the first part of the expansion we want you to enjoy it at a steady pace taking in all the beautiful sights. The ability to run will be rewarded by a legendary quest.
  1. mmoc94c128e2c3's Avatar
    So hyped right now..
  1. mmoc17fef60d65's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TeslaHolmes View Post
    It's not my fault people like you make it so much fun.



    Holy shit someone needs to remove the Eiffel tower out of their arse.

    Please, go ahead and leave (we all know you'll be back though. See you at launch!)


    Did you actually just make that comparison?

    Like... really?
    You have my vote bro. +1
  1. chadadams14's Avatar
    I'M SO FUCKING EXCITED FOR NO FLYING MOUNTS. HELLO IN-DEPTH ZONE AND QUESTING EXPERIENCE, GOOD BY FLYING OVER AN ENTIRE VILLAGE OF MOBS JUST TO KILL ONE MOB. Seriously though, this needed to happen. Questing felt meaningless with a flying mount and you never really get to experience the entirety of quest design with one. People are so used to just shooting for level cap without really enjoying the work Blizz has put into quest and lore design... Genuinely excited for this expansion.
  1. Tython's Avatar
    Can I get all the gold back I spent on flying for all my toons? It's the one skill I'm rarely able to use in wow and quite often I'm forced to relearn it for no apparent reason...
  1. Solomodex's Avatar
    Ew, the update made it even more gross...
  1. Karragon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chadadams14 View Post
    I'M SO FUCKING EXCITED FOR NO FLYING MOUNTS. HELLO IN-DEPTH ZONE AND QUESTING EXPERIENCE, GOOD BY FLYING OVER AN ENTIRE VILLAGE OF MOBS JUST TO KILL ONE MOB. Seriously though, this needed to happen. Questing felt meaningless with a flying mount and you never really get to experience the entirety of quest design with one. People are so used to just shooting for level cap without really enjoying the work Blizz has put into quest and lore design... Genuinely excited for this expansion.
    Yet another person who has missed the point entirely.

    This isn't about "shooting for level cap" this is about not being able to fly at level cap
  1. Raysz's Avatar
    Hasn't this been the case with every expansion so far, or is the difference that we'll have to wait till the first patch to fly?

    As long as in fly everywhere else, I don't care. It's nice to explore.
  1. Ineluki's Avatar
    Way to over react people, its not like they are not allowing flying at all in WoD. Its just for the first few months, if thats a big deal wait until 6.1 to buy the game. We didnt have flying while leveling in any expansion except Cata so I dont know why anyone is surprised about that.
  1. Karragon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ineluki View Post
    Way to over react people, its not like they are not allowing flying at all in WoD. Its just for the first few months, if thats a big deal wait until 6.1 to buy the game. We didnt have flying while leveling in any expansion except Cata so I dont know why anyone is surprised about that.
    We aren't surprised about that, or even particularly bothered about it. We are bothered by the fact we can't fly at max level till some arbitrary date and that we have to do some stupid quest line to be able to fly. It's an unnecessary, artificial time sink
  1. mmoc17fef60d65's Avatar
    Time for emo drama kids that never played vanila the most non commercial game ever that happened to leave us enjoy the best move ever bliz did after removing most non commercial things from the game. GJ blizzard and pls...emo kids like karragon rest in peace

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