Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

Patch 5.4.2 PTR - Build 17585

Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

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This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1056 Comments
  1. Sesto's Avatar
    I love that Blizzard is doing this, but I honestly believe they will end up changing their mind before the expansion is released. Too many whiners.
  1. mmoc3d7f422663's Avatar
    "Dan ‏@The10thElement 13 lis
    @theMAC @Azreluna @Ghostcrawler as it stands, there is nothing fun or compelling about ground travel.
    Odpowiedź Podaj dalej Ulubione Więcej Rozwiń
    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 13 h
    @The10thElement Is there anything fun or compelling about raid trash? Repair costs? Earning lesser charms? Yet those still have value..."
  1. dubbst's Avatar
    anyone get a HS beta key yet?
  1. mmoc7fc3f7c184's Avatar
    Realllllly good change. People who diss this change is 1. Not fan of changes. 2. Lazy *****.

    WoW is a game best experienced from the ground not looking down on everything, jeez im tired of flying noobs. This is gonna be awesome and I can't wait to gank people on funny places again. Time to dust of my of world pvp movies and create new ones CAUSE NO ONE CAN FLY AWAY FROM ME MOHAHA.

    my 2 cents.
  1. mmoc489da90f09's Avatar
    I question. Do anyone know what this shortly mean with the beta key? Do they mean like 10h - 1day or like 1day + ?
    I really wanna know if I will get one :P
  1. mmoc7fc3f7c184's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Hey kids, I will let you in on a little secret. If you want to fly, use the flight path.
    THIS !!!! SO HARD. Use flight paths people who hate on this change.
  1. mmoc3d7f422663's Avatar
    Hah cool info guys.

    Read this

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler 13 h
    @SimpleOlive No. We like no flying when content is relevant. In 6.1 the Draenor zones won't be current, but there will be a new no-fly zone.

    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...11014708408321
  1. mmocd26b3ed498's Avatar
    I love questing without flying.

    That is all i gotta say, I loved the 1st 85-90 that i lvled cause of this reason
  1. Xilurm's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mush View Post


    Too bad that they aren't me, and they don't get to decide what I do lol.
    Actually they do. It's their game. You either play or quit.
  1. HerrDrache's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzros View Post
    THIS !!!! SO HARD. Use flight paths people who hate on this change.
    I was just about to mention flightpaths. I still use FPs a lot, mostly because I'll go grab a drink/purge the drink while using the taxi.
    That being said, I would appreciate it if they could make taxis a little faster (ok, a *lot* faster), or at least stop the never-ending useless circling aka "Look, kids, DALARAN!"
    I swear, I wanted to fly in Wrath just to cut down on the 5 minute loop around Dalaran! (I know I'm exaggerating)
  1. mmoc489da90f09's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by dubbst View Post
    Anyone get a beta key yet for HS?
    I got none yet. I hope I will get one though. Tryign to figure out whan it will come and if people got it yet too.
  1. deadman1's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Geish View Post
    Dont be daft, I already went through that with the fact that wow itself was sold explicitly to have 40 man raids. It's still a bad argument, that is covered with the fact that you can fly in all the content that it was sold for.

    If I buy a gxf card and in later find out that it doesn't fit in next generation motherboards. Should I get my money back, should motherboard technology be stopped from advancing, or should I just accept that what I bought was for that time and times change? Imagine if it was sold on the promise that the gfx card would run all the latest games with ultra settings but after couple years that wouldn't be the case? Outrage I say.
    No its not, wow wasn't sold like that at all and the fact that you keep saying that is just proof that you have no idea what you are talking about. WoW wasn't 100% about raiding especially at the start. Those mounts are specifically meant to be mounts and were sold as flying mounts.

    If you do that with a gxf card that means you didn't do your research. That is a terrible example. Its more like as if they said your gfx card had a 3 gb cache and then came to your house and took 2.5 gbs away from you.

    Also you are talking about obsolescent technology. Those things aren't the same as a virtual mount, I'm sorry but if you are going to say I'm wrong come up with a better misguided diatribe.
  1. Lord Kristivas's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Accident View Post
    I'm very much a fan of the no flying decision. Frankly I'd prefer it delayed longer. The world felt small and trivial from on high.
    When I earned Epic Flying, it was like 5000 gold. When I got to Northrend, even more gold. I just kept paying to update this damned flying skill.

    If Blizz didn't want their world to feel "small and trivial", they shouldn't have added flying mounts in the first place. How does this shit even make sense in the game world?

    "My Frostwyrm that I liberated from Arthas suddenly can't fly here. Neither can my Wyvern who's wings aren't skeletal. What trickery is this!?" Meanwhile, birds and shit are flying around as usual?

    This "no flight til level X/patch X" is fucking marlarky. I understand they don't want people to fly through content, I really do, but the characters earned all that crap. Especially those of us who were playing during TBC. The 10000 or 12000 gold+ spent on the flying skill and mounts might not seem like a lot, but I put a lot of time into earning it back then (which was a lot more time-consuming back in the day), only to see all that effort pissed away when I want to race from Point A to point B leveling asap to get back into raiding.

    If a new game says no mounts/no flying, I'm perfectly fine with that. Hell, I prefer that! I'd prefer it here, if I hadn't earned the ability through no small amount of farming and AHing. When something takes effort, and my precious time, I want to hold onto it and get as much use out of it as possible. This solution.. is bullshit.
  1. Sesto's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mush View Post
    No its not, wow wasn't sold like that at all and the fact that you keep saying that is just proof that you have no idea what you are talking about. WoW wasn't 100% about raiding especially at the start. Those mounts are specifically meant to be mounts and were sold as flying mounts.

    If you do that with a gxf card that means you didn't do your research. That is a terrible example. Its more like as if they said your gfx card had a 3 gb cache and then came to your house and took 2.5 gbs away from you.

    Also you are talking about obsolescent technology. Those things aren't the same as a virtual mount, I'm sorry but if you are going to say I'm wrong come up with a better misguided diatribe.
    Your argument fails when you realize those mounts aren't actually being taken away the ability to fly. They are still flying mounts; they just can't fly in Draenor zones.

    When Blizzard added Timeless Isle, or Isle of Thunder did you also complain about this? Because it's the same fucking thing, except on a larger scale.
  1. mmoc7fc23bbf2a's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mush View Post
    Saying I'm crying because I disagree with you is as immature as what you say I am.

    You can say those things are part of the game, but in WoW they are not, waiting 2+ months after hitting max level isn't and never has been part of the game, that is a fact. WoW has never held close to its RPG and acting like it has is silly. Show me one point in its history that it has and I might agree with you. You and others keep talking about how it doesn't fit the genre, well neither do a lot of things in WoW.

    Fundamentally changing parts of the game isn't the answer, and I never once complained about doing a quest chain for the flying ability.

    Also I'm not complaining about leveling without flying I'm complaining about the 2+ months after I level cap without flying.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Too bad that they aren't me, and they don't get to decide what I do lol.
    Hm. Thought you wouldn't want to answer to my Posts? You're not very good at going through with your choices huh?
    Oh they're not? Hm, well. So I didn't make a Character, that's fighting against those big bad evils? You don't get the Point, do you? Letting yourself get trolled? Of fucking course there aren't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive...e-Playing_Game
    "Although modern MMORPGs sometimes differ dramatically from their antecedents, many of them share some basic characteristics. These include several common features: persistent game environment, some form of progression, social interaction within the game, in-game culture, system architecture, membership in a group, and character customization."
    Dunno what game you play, I've seen all the things in WoW. It lives up to it's Genre.
    Yop. Waiting two Months wasn't part of the Game before. But waiting itself has. And many times it was for Flying. But yeah.. that's what I said didn't I? They just extended the time period this time around, Silly.

    Too bad that they aren't me, and they don't get to decide what I do lol.
    Yes, special, special Snowflake. Point is: They do. Stick with what they do. Or leave. Simple as that. So since my assumption right now is you're going to leave because they took your Fly-Fly from you: Good Bye, please, never come back and btw, stay away from MMOC for the sake of it. If you aren't you're just going to stick with their will anyway and there goes your solid want for choices.
  1. Tyriama's Avatar
    Really happy they made the change to enforce the no-flying mounts, atleast for a while. I for one love how much effort the gamedesigners put into the pacing of the leveling, and I totally agree that there is far too easy to just cheese your way out of fighting most mobs with flying (my alt could finish quests with killing one or two extra mobs, where we used to have to kill 15.
  1. Tirilka's Avatar
    Oh dear, if Blizzard will actually have the balls to stick to 'no-flying until 6.1' despite all the whine, I will love them forever.
    Ground-based exploration rocks!
    And they are planning to do an epic quest-chain to enable flying later, probably with Arrakoa involved... Can it possibly get any better?
  1. deadman1's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    If Blizz didn't want their world to feel "small and trivial", they shouldn't have added flying mounts in the first place. How does this shit even make sense in the game world?
    This as well, If they never added it I wouldn't know any different so it wouldn't have mattered. Its the fact that they are taking away something that they added that is the problem.
  1. mmoc7fc3f7c184's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tirilka View Post
    Oh dear, if Blizzard will actually have the balls to stick to 'no-flying until 6.1' despite all the whine, I will love them forever.
    Ground-based exploration rocks!
    And they are planning to do an epic quest-chain to enable flying later, probably with Arrakoa involved... Can it possibly get any better?
    Yeah baby rock on!!! Really good change. World PvP says Hello i stugan =)
  1. BatteredSausage's Avatar
    pve servers should be allowed to have flying straight off the bat in regards to world pvp because they choose at a guess not to participate in it...most the time.

    Also way to go from the morons calling everyone that WANTS flying whiners, yet all your fucking whining has got you all a step closer to what you want...or should i say it closes the gap on your personality disorder...social missfits that want to take everything away from others because they think there better than everyone else.

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