Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

Patch 5.4.2 PTR - Build 17585

Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

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This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1056 Comments
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by crossfella View Post
    I heard next to no one complaining about The Isle of Quel'Danas, the Molten Front, The Isle of Thunder, or The Timeless Isle during their respective runs. Blizzard is saying explicitly that they want to be able to design around a certain experience at max level, and seeing as they've already expressed their intentions of making end game content similar to The Timeless Isle, it would only make sense for that content to be experienced while grounded.

    People blaming the "vocal minority" or "people who whined about wanting flying removed" are missing the mark entirely. This isn't about people getting what they want, it's about Blizzard designing their game how they want it to be experienced. A game loses its luster once the challenge is trivial, and that is exactly what flying does. The experience will be better for it.

    For anyone who wants to use flying simply for travel, and not to skip challenges, there are flight paths that adequately accomplish that job.
    And so if your best answer is just that flight paths can fulfill travel to then why shouldn't I be allowed to fly? Flying lets me check out things from a new perspective and see things I wouldn't have been able to without. And yes I DO use flying like that. Especially when im bored waiting for a que that with or without flying mounts I could have just sat in the capital city for. So really what does removing them help?
  1. iperson's Avatar
    Remember how WoW died back in Vanilla because there wasn't any flying? Me either...
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrelis View Post
    Excellent. I praise Blizzard decision to stick to their direction, and I sincerely hope they stick to it and not fold over.

    Looks like I will be enjoying this next expansion even more.
    Eh...I think that's what there doing here. Folding over to the people that do not want flying.
  1. Eats Compost's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Abstieg View Post
    And having limited areas that force that upon you are bearable, but eliminating flying entirely and having mounts that can fly be unable to ever fly is ridiculous.
    No more ridiculous than every other gameplay-related restriction on mounts. They're completely subservient to gameplay, and everything they do should be determined on the basis of that, not whether or not the model happens to have wings.
  1. derpkitteh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    The people crying calling others cry babies? Makes sense.
    you people are. you can't control your damn selves and use the ground mount for the "immersion" you oh so want, but instead you want to control the way other people play the game. people like this are really the worst type of people.


    whatever really. i'll be too busy shitting myself over my garrison and stuff to care about it.
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by iperson View Post
    Remember how WoW died back in Vanilla because there wasn't any flying? Me either...
    Remember how WoW died back in BC because they added flying mounts? Me either...
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Also, just pointing this out. They're also removing flight paths. Look at the reason why they said they are delaying flying. That it trivializes the areas, makes them not dangerous, that flying is used to skip content. Well flight paths do all that too. So if they are serious, they'll be delaying flight paths till 6.1. Confirmed.
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    you people are. you can't control your damn selves and use the ground mount for the "immersion" you oh so want, but instead you want to control the way other people play the game. people like this are really the worst type of people.


    whatever really. i'll be too busy shitting myself over my garrison and stuff to care about it.
    Indeed at least this expansion looks good regardless of whatever they do with flying. Just hopefully blizz comes to their senses before launch.
  1. crossfella's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    And so if your best answer is just that flight paths can fulfill travel to then why shouldn't I be allowed to fly?
    There you go, you answered it in your own question. If your argument is that you need flying mounts to travel, my answer (and Blizzards, which is far more important) is that you may take flight paths so you don't have to gallop cross-continent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    So really what does removing them help?
    The rest of my post is an answer to this very question.
  1. cptaylor38's Avatar
    I really want to get back into wow for nostalgia reasons, but everything they keep releasing just keeps pushing me further and further away from wanting to spend another 65 bucks on this expansion. The art better be damned good.
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Also, just pointing this out. They're also removing flight paths. Look at the reason why they said they are delaying flying. That it trivializes the areas, makes them not dangerous, that flying is used to skip content. Well flight paths do all that too. So if they are serious, they'll be delaying flight paths till 6.1. Confirmed.
    Except that one people would actually like lol. All they do is provide an arbitrary and repetitive path that costs gold. I'd rather fly there and look at all the cool things on the way rather than being forced to pass them by or deal with annoying ground mobs.
  1. mmocb29c770ad2's Avatar
    This thread is hilarious. It's like taking a candy bar from a fat kid. So hellbent on getting the easiest way.

    Now you're gonna have to play how the developers intended you to play. Suck. It. Up.
  1. noralya's Avatar
    Not really sure what to think about this. I'll deal with it, but not particularly thrilled.
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by crossfella View Post
    There you go, you answered it in your own question. If your argument is that you need flying mounts to travel, my answer (and Blizzards, which is far more important) is that you may take flight paths so you don't have to gallop cross-continent.



    The rest of my post is an answer to this very question.
    lol cause obviously single unchanging paths are far better than being able to choose your paths and see things you wouldn't otherwise. Please remind me why you cant just use your ground mount anyways?
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by happoman View Post
    This thread is hilarious. It's like taking a candy bar from a fat kid. So hellbent on getting the easiest way.

    Now you're gonna have to play how the developers intended you to play. Suck. It. Up.
    Fat kids bite. Watch where you stick your hand.
  1. crossfella's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Also, just pointing this out. They're also removing flight paths. Look at the reason why they said they are delaying flying. That it trivializes the areas, makes them not dangerous, that flying is used to skip content. Well flight paths do all that too. So if they are serious, they'll be delaying flight paths till 6.1. Confirmed.
    This is foolish. Traveling from Shattrath to Karabor instead of galloping there is a convenience that isn't about trivializing content, as the entire goal of that flight is travel. There isn't content that's trying to be bypassed, only ground. Flying over the dispersed mobs between you and the quest mob you're trying to kill is trivializing content, and that is what they're disallowing. Flight paths don't trivialize content.
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    I think the word immersion should be banned, when it comes to topics like this it has gotten old now.. lol It is just used too often that it has lost its zing, it is a matter of perspective with how people will perceive it.. It is okay to have no flying until max level because in that time they have pretty much explored every area of the game world while you level..

    But to then force it on people once they have reached max level makes me wonder if Draenor will be like how Azeroth was before Cata.. Where a lot of the game world was not all there such as some parts of Stormwind or Orgrimmar as well as most parts of the game world that could not be seen when taking a taxi bird..

    But if it is just to force it on folks just for the heck of it then no it is not cool because as I said before once you have reached max level you have pretty much seen all of the world from the ground..
  1. Theendgamelv3's Avatar
    Being able to kill mobs easily trivializes content. That isn't a excuse to me. As a hunter I haven't died to mobs....damn I can't THINK of the last time I died to a mob anywhere that wasn't elite. Want to make content interesting, make all the mobs elite and make them able to kill you with a few hits and put them packs of atleast 3 and have them populated EVERY where. Basically all the mobs leveling up are Ordos style mobs in groups of 2-3. I just don't buy this excuse that it trivializes content when the content is already trivialized. Have GOOD reasons for people to want to be on the ground OR make flying more dangerous. Doing this makes things more tedious and not fun.
  1. LegendsnDreamz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by happoman View Post
    This thread is hilarious. It's like taking a candy bar from a fat kid. So hellbent on getting the easiest way.

    Now you're gonna have to play how the developers intended you to play. Suck. It. Up.
    So, we've not been playing the game how the developers intended to play all along? You mean to say the developers where kidnapped and hung up at gun point to put in flying?
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Solzan Nemesis View Post
    Eh...I think that's what there doing here. Folding over to the people that do not want flying.
    and inversely folding from the side who didn't want it.. I'm sure if they went the other direction I would be reading this same exact comment, minus the "Not". All I can really say, is tough, get over it. Part of what makes Warcraft great is you don't always get what you want.

    The game isn't your own little dan's mod (Or whatever it is called) It is a world, and you just got dealt a hand, deal with it.

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