Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

Patch 5.4.2 PTR - Build 17585

Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

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This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1056 Comments
  1. Dispersedshadow's Avatar
    For future expansions, I wish they would add some additional mechanics into flying on a mount. Variable cross winds, head and tail winds, rain slows you down, flying to close to the sun catches your mount on fire, etc. They could use those features to dissuade most of the behavior they hope to curb and make flying more excited and challenging.
  1. Zalraki's Avatar
    I think most people are missing the point here.

    Blizzards isn't doing this for us. They are doing this to cut down on their workload. It seems designing an expansion based on flying mounts is too much work for them. If you think MoP was unfriendly for alts... welcome to Dreanor!. Where every type of farming now takes 5 times as long
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    And you really think they don't have respawn timers? If you are concerned about getting there quick use a flying mount but if you want to experience the world more use a ground mount.
    Course they do, do I want to sit there for 10 min waiting for it to respawn, while joe zips to four other locations and grabs them?
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by taurvanhiel View Post
    For future expansions, I wish they would add some additional mechanics into flying on a mount. Cross winds, head and tail winds, rain slows you down, flying to close to the sun catches your mount on fire, etc. They could use those features to dissuade most of the behavior they hope to curb and make flying more excited and challenging.
    I agree. I still want flying combat in the game. Flying mounts are on of the best things in WoW. And the one thing WoW has over all other MMOs.
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
    People who are crying about this decision are really hilarious. Was Cataclysm good because you could fly while leveling from 80 to 85? It certainly made it more convenient for the player, but it also, and this is completely objectified, took away from the exploration aspect of the game. Once I was 85 there was no drive to use ground mounts at all until the Firelands patch.

    However, this issue is beyond fucked ever since the ability to fly was introduced. There is no way to please everyone with this issue. People will want to be able to fly right through to level 100 and experience the meat of the game and other people will want to savor their adventure. A happy medium might be to add hubs, objectives and other points of interest on pieces of land only accessible by flying mount, introduce mounted combat and have all sorts of mobs flying around... but then that would just be Vash'jir all over again. The majority of the people I know despised Vash'jir and maybe because it was the only zone in which the players' mode of transport was inconvenienced by combat in every single direction, or maybe people just didn't like being underwater. Most of the minority will only like it because it is the either the less populated place to go and level, or because they're a druid with Herbalism and/or mining. Point being, this issue is unsolvable and the means to the solutions leans heavily on the game's health.

    To the whiners complaining about running the same experience over and over again without a flying mount, you either a) need to slow down b) need to focus on one character c) need to try it differently or d) all of the above. If you're already thinking about doing it, chances are you're going to do it whether you like it or not so there's no need for you to whine to us about it.

    P.S. If you're not liking what you're doing in this game, I suggest quitting and moving on to something you do like to do.
    No one is even talking about flying while leveling anymore. Cata has nothing to do with this discussion. The people upset with this decision are advocating the MoP solution to this. No flying until max level. Problems solved.
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by OUTclassed View Post
    I think most people are missing the point here.

    Blizzards isn't doing this for us. They are doing this to cut down on their workload. It seems designing an expansion based on flying mounts is too much work for them. If you think MoP was unfriendly for alts... welcome to Dreanor!. Where every type of farming now takes 5 times as long
    I... what? what does that even mean.. the zone isnt going to change when 6.1 hits.. it's gonna look the same.

    flight paths people.. flight paths, we used to use them in tbc before we got out 280% mounts
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Course they do, do I want to sit there for 10 min waiting for it to respawn, while joe zips to four other locations and grabs them?
    Lol, coming form the guy that dose not want to take the quick flying way. You want quick respawns.
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by taurvanhiel View Post
    For future expansions, I wish they would add some additional mechanics into flying on a mount. Variable cross winds, head and tail winds, rain slows you down, flying to close to the sun catches your mount on fire, etc. They could use those features to dissuade most of the behavior they hope to curb and make flying more excited and challenging.
    More mechanics based around flying would be interesting. I would much rather see this than eliminate flying to sate the 5 people in the community who just cant be asked to use ground mounts but what the rest of us to be forced into it.
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    No one is even talking about flying while leveling anymore. Cata has nothing to do with this discussion. The people upset with this decision are advocating the MoP solution to this. No flying until max level. Problems solved.
    you havent fixed my treasure chest problem yet...the chests will be full of mad lootz, but down a pathway, with mobs and whatnot. and will be like a quest without a questgiver, it will be for lvl 100s and drop cool loots.

    follow the yellow brick road. Don't just fly to the emerald city
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I... what? what does that even mean.. the zone isnt going to change when 6.1 hits.. it's gonna look the same.

    flight paths people.. flight paths, we used to use them in tbc before we got out 280% mounts
    FPs are lame. and a waste gold in the long run. That's way flying is better. Hell I would rather make my group wait and ride my ground mount then pay for a FPs. I won't to them as that is a dick move. but I want too.
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Solzan Nemesis View Post
    Lol, coming form the guy that dose not want to take the quick flying way. You want quick respawns.

    I havent seen a quote taken more out of context since the fox news
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I... what? what does that even mean.. the zone isnt going to change when 6.1 hits.. it's gonna look the same.

    flight paths people.. flight paths, we used to use them in tbc before we got out 280% mounts
    wow for once I actually agree with you on this post... I'm not sure what Outclassed was trying to say but yeah draenor will be set up to allow flying they are just holding back the access to it. This doesn't impact their workload at all. If anything it adds to it since they have to ensure everyone can reach everywhere without flying but even this is marginal at best.
  1. ColbaneX's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    More mechanics based around flying would be interesting. I would much rather see this than eliminate flying to sate the 5 people in the community who just cant be asked to use ground mounts but what the rest of us to be forced into it.
    Strawman and Bandwagoning. Don't use logical fallacies please.
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Solzan Nemesis View Post
    FPs are lame. and a waste gold in the long run. That's way flying is better. Hell I would rather make my group wait and ride my ground mount then pay for a FPs. I won't to them as that is a dick move. but I want too.
    I dont think I've spent 10kg on flight paths..

    (that is epic and mastery flying, mind you)

    Fp mounts go I think 300%
  1. banadona's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    oh im so sorry that someone literally made you incapable of mounting on anything other than a flying mount. Really? as for the zone thing first of all right now all you need to do is fly up there and use a ground mount from there and it sounds like draenor will be designed with your problems in mind anyways seeing as this is a possibility. So don't worry in this expansion you will have more choice to use ground mounts than ever. So remind me again how we are forcing it on you?
    I don't know why am I trying to explain this to you since you've already proven to be incapable of understanding what I'm writing. In MoP blizz is forcing the usage of flying mounts, maybe not extensively but still you can't do the tillers dailies without flying. For everything else I use fp's and my ground mount because I pay a lot to be able to see the fu**ing game, not skip through it on every turn. Using a flying mount is like buying a book that has a little extra leaflet on it that summerises the whole plot in a few sentences. Why bother reading the book then? To experience the book in its entirety. The same thing applies to the game. They want to tell a story and they won't because some deuchebag will skip it, even unwillingly by using their flying mount. I would expect people to be happy for being able to see more content just because they won't skip it but hey, surprise again! So again, I'm very happy because of this as it makes the world a bigger and more epic place, not some textures and mobs you can just fly over. And if you whine that you waste your precious time just don't play the game of you can't spend a few more minutes to ride someplace. Plus, you can still use flying mounts in old zones if you live flying that much.
  1. rowley1001's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Darmalus View Post
    I won't quit, but I will explore less than I normally would.

    A zone the size of the Vo4W, I'll do one pass to see the story. But I WONT explore it on foot, because the time penalty for an unsuccessful exploration is too great.

    It works on Timeless Isle and Isle of Thunder because they are TINY tiny places. A whole continent? It's not going to work.
    Keep in mind they mentioned leveling is going to be faster then previous expansions so the penalty wont be as great. Also you can explore on alts if you feel the need to rush for end game.
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I havent seen a quote taken more out of context since the fox news
    That's how you win. Tell lies and then they become true. Cheap...yes, but that's life. Deal with it.
  1. Gamespud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    you havent fixed my treasure chest problem yet...the chests will be full of mad lootz, but down a pathway, with mobs and whatnot. and will be like a quest without a questgiver, it will be for lvl 100s and drop cool loots.

    follow the yellow brick road. Don't just fly to the emerald city
    I'm sorry how does this even apply to flying vs ground mounts. The main argument for ground mounts only is to experience the world if you want to race everywhere instead there is no reason to. If you really want an answer then find a more reasonable middle ground for both mount types to reach. but all of this is pointless as that's minor. Youre hardly disadvantaged because you aren't flying especially when you have every choice to do so and just use your ground mount when youre not on your random race across the continent.
  1. roahn the warlock's Avatar
    I think a lot of these people need to go watch the blizzcon panels. I'd probably bitch too, but since I know the reason this is all happening. It doesn't bother me
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I dont think I've spent 10kg on flight paths..

    (that is epic and mastery flying, mind you)

    Fp mounts go I think 300%
    320%. But its less about the speed and more about the freedom. Garnet I do not want that 60% again.

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