Update: Added a new response to some feedback.

Patch 5.4.2 PTR - Build 17585

Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There's a lot of discussion about flying/not-flying and I'd like to try to sum things up and maybe realign the discussion a bit. Some of the other threads are near-cap, some have really gone down tangents, so I'm just picking this one to throw a reply into. Apologies to the other threads.

We intend to disallow flying while leveling from 90 to 100, and have flying become available again in the first major patch for Warlords of Draenor. No flying while leveling has been the case during Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Mists of Pandaria. We allowed flying during Cataclysm because as those zones were mixed-in with the 1-60 world it just would have been really jarring to dismount you as you fly into Hyjal, etc. but we would have disallowed it for Catalcysm zones as well if there was a reasonable solution there.

Flying trivializes combat. A lot of people like to say we're trying to force world PvP, or that we just really want people to look at the pretty trees we made, but those really aren't the reasons that drive this same decision we've made every expansion. Flying allows you to escape or enter combat at-will. There's a reason why flying isn't allowed in dungeons and raids, or battlegrounds and arenas, and that's because it would trivialize the core mechanic of the game in those areas - combat. For much the same reason it trivializes how content is approached in the outdoor world based on the simple fact that you can lift off and set down wherever you like.

So that's the main reason. But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation. It just greatly reduces any gameplay we want to create by allowing infinite choice in how content is approached to best suit a player's intention to (usually) avoid that content.

I totally sympathize with people's desire to do that, they want to be efficient and have it be their choice, but we have to balance our intent to create a game against creating a sandbox where anything goes. There's a happy medium there somewhere, but flying mounts in most cases just do too much to undermine too many of our core intentions with the game world, the basis of the game: combat, or guiding players through a game experience, and for those reasons we have continually chosen (when we could) to disallow flying mounts in the 'current' outdoor content. In the past that's meant only while leveling, but in our experiences with the Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isle we feel like we can extend that for a bit longer in the new content, and have it be kind of a big deal again once you're able to earn flying in the first big content patch, and in the meantime putting focus on flight paths as well as having some more interesting travel options for players to use.

Update: So a couple things I wanted to bring up in addition to what I posted earlier. The first was that we're of course refining our questing experience, you may have heard a bit about it from BlizzCon, and that expands to max level content as well. In Mists of Pandaria there was quite a bit of outdoor content at max level, but it was almost entirely in the form of dailies. From BlizzCon we shared we're looking to provide something quite a bit more story driven like the 5.1 Operation Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive with some of the exploration lessons we learned from the Timeless Isle, and that extends to the max level experience as well. We want the transition at max level not to be questing and story to a harsh "now you do dailies", but something that's more natural and feels a lot like the leveling experience just at max level for better reward. And so that goes back to all of the reasons I gave before about how flight interrupts some of the core mechanics we think present the best leveling and questing experience, and I thought it'd be good to point out that it'll also play a big role at max level due to our questing refinements.

The second thing is we really like when flying feels like a reward and something you've earned for each new expansion or area. It's such a powerful ability and we look back at BC (at least for epic riding) or Wrath and those were really big keystone achievements for us as players (mainly because they had some pretty huge gold costs on them...). Regardless of the unlock method though it was one of the bigger moments when you unlocked flying, took to the skies, and were able to see the world from an entirely different vantage because for most of us it wasn't easily attainable. Our plan has been to recapture some of that but make it a bit cooler, and while we don't have specifics just yet, it'll be something more involved than just paying gold; something that further emphasizes how powerful flight is. Unlocking it won't just be level 100 on the day 6.1 comes out with some gold, but something you'll be working toward over the course of the initial expansion release, and 6.1 will introduce the final steps to complete it. Think of something like a mini Legendary cloak quest. It's such a enormous power to be able to fly we really want it to be more of a key moment when you unlock it, and something that feels like an accomplishment more than just shelling out some gold like we've had in the past.

Anyway, I felt like those two things were worth spelling out.

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This article was originally published in forum thread: Warlords of Draenor - Flying Delayed Until First Major Patch, Hearthstone Beta Keys started by chaud View original post
Comments 1056 Comments
  1. Zalraki's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    wow for once I actually agree with you on this post... I'm not sure what Outclassed was trying to say but yeah draenor will be set up to allow flying they are just holding back the access to it. This doesn't impact their workload at all. If anything it adds to it since they have to ensure everyone can reach everywhere without flying but even this is marginal at best.
    "But sure there are a lot of other problems it can cause for content design such as zones having to get a lot bigger because flying mounts can travel so quickly (and thus making ground travel in them take much longer), it reduces the impact of elevation within zones, it completely removes the ability for us to pace or present content in any structured way, and in general removes our ability to determine how and when players approach a situation, see a vista or location, or charge into/out-of a combat situation."

    How is this not cutting down on workload?
  1. ColbaneX's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Solzan Nemesis View Post
    I could live with that. I just really like flying. ...lot.
    And you'll get it, a couple months after the expac drops.
  1. tylenol's Avatar
    It's Druids fault this no flying stuff damn it, never having to dismount to grab quest items
  1. Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamespud View Post
    Alright I've had a fun chat guys but its getting late now. Guess we will just have to wait to see what happens at launch. Either way I cant wait to get my hands on WoD even if I have to lug around on my ground mounts for a while
    Same I got class tomorrow, and it was nice meeting you.
    Quote Originally Posted by ColbaneX View Post
    And you'll get it, a couple months after the expac drops.
    Yep.

    I too over all am getting exacted for WoD myself. More then before now lol. Good night all and thank you for the good time and desiccation.
  1. F-Minus's Avatar
    I really have no problem with no flying until a certain point in time, however they should make all blizzard store mounts be usable as ground mounts (if they are not already), that seems only fair to people who spend the cash on them.
  1. Dante535's Avatar
    Honestly I don't understand why people are complaining.... only one expansion you could fly while lvling. For the people complaining about no flying at max lvl, in vanilla(classic) wow you never had flying until TBC came out. Seriously what is the big deal, it is only until the next major patch. If you can wait for WoD to release I believe you can wait for flying to return.

    IMO I think flying got out of control in this game, 310% speed increase? seriously?
  1. otarma's Avatar
    Farming will definitely be the pain in the ass. Even with garrison to provide some goods it won't help in the long run.

    Flight paths are extremely inconvenient. If Blizzard sticks to the plan, FPs have to be way more friendly than now. Blizzard needs to give players the option to leave the flight in the middle, to cut the cost of flight paths, and some more.

    Besides, if Blizzard wants to put some restrictions on flying mounts, nerf them please. They don't have to completely disable this function. It's just lazy.

    To me it seems the new world endgame contents are the reason to disable flying mounts. Contents like Timeless Isle won't function correctly if players can soar freely in the air. They tested how it would work by the new Vale and had their answer, so I guess they are determined. WoW is incapable to be a game in which flying is fun due to its natural defections of physics simulation.
  1. Amerissis's Avatar
    Well, that quelled any intentions of coming back for WoD. Guess my break finally turns into a quit afterall.
  1. justjm's Avatar
    Meh. They just made it easier to come back in 6.1 Not really enthused about this idea, on a dead PVP server with a faction imbalance. Create a new 90 on a pve server and move on.
  1. Goosed's Avatar
    I guess all the people who are quitting can go play some of the other top mmos that have flying mounts.......oh wait
  1. deadman1's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dante535 View Post
    Honestly I don't understand why people are complaining.... only one expansion you could fly while lvling. For the people complaining about no flying at max lvl, in vanilla(classic) wow you never had flying until TBC came out. Seriously what is the big deal, it is only until the next major patch. If you can wait for WoD to release I believe you can wait for flying to return.

    IMO I think flying got out of control in this game, 310% speed increase? seriously?
    No one is complaing about not being able to fly with leveling.

    People are complaining about the 2+month wait after you level cap that you will have to wait to fly.


    And saying you didn't have flying till TBC came out is a ridiculous statement, you could also say that only one out of the six expansions didn't have flying.

    Vanilla - no flying
    Tbc - yes flying
    wrath - yes flying
    cata - yes flying
    mop - yes flying
    wod - yes flying

    Flying has been in the game for the majority of the time the game has been out and it is here to stay.
  1. TipTopPoet's Avatar
    I love how people are bitching about a lack of content when they haven't even seen the content yet. That's like complaining about a party being lame before you even get there. Who knows, it could be the best expac ever. Not being able to fly for a month or what is definitely not going to stop me from buying WoD. Hell, if it drives away all the entitled people it might actually make the game better when they're all gone. Clean up the community a bit.

    Yay for no flying!
  1. Amerissis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Goosed View Post
    I guess all the people who are quitting can go play some of the other top mmos that have flying mounts.......oh wait
    Yes, because never having flying mounts is clearly the same as removing them......oh wait.
  1. Flutterguy's Avatar
    This is pure laziness from a design standpoint. They spend that whole essay explaining how they, as creative designers, cannot come up with a creative way to make flying interesting from the design standpoint.

    Why don't they just remove flying overall and admit defeat like the auction house in D3?
  1. Eats Compost's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    This is pure laziness from a design standpoint. They spend that whole essay explaining how they, as creative designers, cannot come up with a creative way to make flying interesting from the design standpoint.

    Why don't they just remove flying overall and admit defeat like the auction house in D3?
    It's not a matter of it being "interesting" or not. The problem is how the ability to pop up in the air and back down again conflicts with area and objective design. There's hardly anything "lazy" about this.
  1. mmoc8823406b83's Avatar
    What if they put fly mount using ability into the achievement rewards of the zones for doing all the quests there? Finish the intended story in a zone and now you can fly. The whole point is that you should go through the story as intended and not just picking the mobs you need by dropping in the exact same place as they are, skipping everything else. I'm fine with their way aswell. Will be nice to see players in the middle of a forest, not just above. But I will miss fast traveling just as much as everyone else.
  1. |Dexter|'s Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    I'll be passing on the expansion then. Lack of content and not allowing people to use mounts they EARNED or PAID FOR is just fucking ridiculous.
    Lack of content are you kidding me?! 7 freaking new zones 90-100 is 10 more levels more end game content in like ever.... (That is what they say) And almost nothing of it will be daily's sounds to me like there is lots of content here! Oh but you can't fly over it all so you got to travel by land omg really a man?!
  1. Toffey's Avatar
    Well... mine didnt work, I got a second HS key, tried to give to a friend and got rejected.. What a bummer.
  1. Eats Compost's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sicc View Post
    What if they put fly mount using ability into the achievement rewards of the zones for doing all the quests there? Finish the intended story in a zone and now you can fly. The whole point is that you should go through the story as intended and not just picking the mobs you need by dropping in the exact same place as they are, skipping everything else. I'm fine with their way aswell. Will be nice to see players in the middle of a forest, not just above. But I will miss fast traveling just as much as everyone else.
    That's okay for leveling, but not for other things, with max level content being the biggie. Timeless Isle-style content is best served sans flying, which is what they're going for here. It wouldn't have been good (as far as intended design goes) for, say, Isle of Thunder either.
  1. mmocac96309fe0's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Solomodex View Post
    Well, that sucks. Alot...

    Why can't these people that feels like flying mounts "ruin everything" just use ground mounts then? Nothing is stopping you.
    Becuase its not a case of personal use and preference, this is not a single player game.

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