Blizzcon Dev Interview, Next Connected Realms, Blue Posts, Blue Tweets, DLC #416

The concept that can't make an Emerald Dream because it would be "one big forest" is a misnomer. The Emerald Dream is not just "one big forest", it's the original blueprints for Azeroth. We associate it with forestry and nature because druids, particularly night elves, flock to it, not because it has to be some evergreen haven, and it's not. The Emerald Nightmare put a stop to most of that, at the very least.

I can't tell if this is Blizzard's idea of "creativity" or if they're just being willfully ignorant. All their expansions reuse themes, to some degree, and yet they don't repeat the same concept a million different times. Northrend is described as a frozen continent, yet it has tundras and fjords that aren't beholden to the frozen wasteland stereotype. Cataclysm didn't just show us remnants of a scarred world, it shows us further scarring from barren wastelands and barren wastelands evolving into lush rivers and forests.

This concept that Emerald Dream has to be a forest is the biggest load of bollocks that Blizzard's ever vomited, well, with the exception of a few others, perhaps. It's just downright insulting, not to their fans but to their own designers. Do they think their art team is that unoriginal? If so, perhaps you should look for some new ones, then.

As for no flight? I'm on the fence for that one. Outside pacing I see no point. Leveling is not dictated by how fast we can fly because we have always required reaching the level cap before we can fly anyway, so in mind, that leaves the idea that it's for "exploration" purposes. That alone is a crock of shit. Exploration is not governed by whether one can fly or not, it's governed by risk vs. reward. Why take the time to explore when players get rewarded more for simply standing in Stormwind or Orgrimmar? Flight or no flight doesn't change that, the lack of it simply makes it less convenient on players when they do head off to do something.

From a lore perspective it makes no sense and from an end-game gameplay perspective it still makes no sense. Unless they've given much thought to the problem of exploration-based rewards then why bother? At least in games like Guild Wars 2 exploration makes sense, you get more than a mere achievement for exploring an entire zone, and so the lack of flight is encouraging, but on Warcraft you get absolutely nothing but a waste of time and one, meaningless achievement.

So in short, the problems aren't with flight but with the lack of a reward for exploration. Either fix exploration or don't bother restricting us, because otherwise it's just a major timesink for no tangible gain. I'm still going to sit in a random city somewhere, because why bother riding out past hundreds of mobs for one achievement?

Originally Posted by Satanous

So they can make a "Story" reason to be back on Draenor, but can't make one for different types of zones in the Emerald Dream...How about the nightmare makes the zones change or the loss of the dragon flights link has let the legion enter it.

or why not make an expansion where there emerald dream is just one of the zones.. ala Vash. What he is saying and what you are saying are basically the same thing. If the subzones you want inside the emerald dream are not a green forest, then why do they have to be ´inside´ the dream. it is like saying I want an entire expansion inside Vash.. but I want 5 of the zones to not be underwater.

it is either going to be like the molton front, or like firelands itself.. probably both.

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Originally Posted by Sarevokcz

are you serious right now? the latest examples are Daily grinds and MoP Reputations, where they didnt give in at first, because they thought it was the best thing since sliced bread... and then their resolve crumbled by 5.2, because people couldnt give two hoots about massive timesinks and forced grinds. The big picture here is, they want us to spend more time playing the game for the same or less rewards than before and people arent gonna take it lightly, just like the MoP fiasco, the end.

It was all relative. People complained so much in Cata about there being no solo content so the devs overcompensated with 5.0 content. Afterwards they realized how alt-unfriendly it was so, yes, 6 months later they nerfed old stuff.

There is a fine line between calling something a time sink and saying there is not enough to do.

Well Northrend was supposed to be all covered with ice and snow too, but in the end we have even jungle there.. so I don't see the problem with Emerald dream..even when they say that the lore doesn't have place with the good gameplay. I completely agree with no flying till 6.1 but to say that the lore is not important for good gameplay can brake the stupid-meter. Then maybe they can add mounts like lamborghinies and ferarri in the game it would be cool dropping lamborghini from boss and driving in Nagrand with 400 % of speed .. who cares bout the lore

Would be so dull if they allowed flying right away. First time leveling through a whole new continent avoiding everything between npc and q objective. And then complain how leveling was too easy/quick

Whether "being grounded" until 6.1 works out remains to be seen.

Originally Posted by MasterHamster

Would be so dull if they allowed flying right away. First time leveling through a whole new continent avoiding everything between npc and q objective. And then complain how leveling was too easy/quick

Whether "being grounded" until 6.1 works out remains to be seen.

I don't particularly care about "no flying" while leveling (though, as I've said, I think it worked out pretty well with zone design in WotLK,) but at max level, it's just a pain. ESPECIALLY for an entire continent.

I kinda laughed at the person who said he'd have to kill mobs on his slim game time. Does he not play now because I can rage through a mob in like 5 seconds.

Originally Posted by balir

I also reckon that along with No flying, you should HAVE to finish all the zone quests before you level up and leave the zone.

Yes, because surely that happened in Pandaria... no, wait, it didn't. The first time through I didn't finish Jade Forest and completely skipped Krasarang.

it is when we are forced us to fight mobs not needed wasting my now-slim play-time ...please reconsider
But that sounds like you're arguing for a dungeon with 3 bosses in the first room....

This is just pathetic...Blizz are no better than anyone on any forum anywhere that take things to extremes to make a point during an argument.

why can't you just give mobs a close range dismount ability? So we can still fly high, but not low to skip mobs?
Ultimately, you are still deciding when you want to face danger in the outdoor world. That's not quite the same thing.

They are also highly ignorant or deliberately ignoring the facts about mobs...there is NO danger WHATSOEVER in the outdoor world, mobs are nothing but slowdowns.

The fact is, they don't like the fact that we use flying mounts to make max-level farming/grinding/dailies much faster/more efficient, and they want to remove that. I can think of a hundred things they could do to slow us down even more though, and I'm surprised they haven't introduced any of them yet.

I can understand the Emerald Dream not being put in, but not the fact we aren't getting wc4. I hate starcraft 2. The story is good, but the UI is atrocious. Its dark on dark making it hard to see things that you build(icon-wise)

If no WC4, then find a way to remove all the bots from WC3, so I can actually go back and play it

Originally Posted by cptaylor38

Do any of these developers have a non-childlike, professional, mindset? Every time I read their responses I just picture some ghetto black girl at a McDonald's drive through snapping her fingers and tossing her weave around while cussing out the paying customer for asking for an extra packet of ketchup. Only, they don't even put THAT much effort into it. It's just a one or two line, "f you, you're wrong and stupid" in a few more words. So condescending!

Personally I like it. I find it 100% necessary and warranted considering the customer base. These aren't middle aged gentlemen out buying a new TV they are dealing with. Its mostly just people who whine/rage at anything and everything, and barely make the effort to type out a post that makes sense or has correct spelling.

I've also never seen Blizzard respond anywhere like that. On the contrary, its the rabid fanbase demanding more for less.

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Originally Posted by Kaleredar

Don't be fooled; spoiled brats whining about "flying ruining the game" is the entire reason their trying this little timesink experiment in the first place.


So you just need to fight whining with whining.



Icecrown Glacier and Storm Peaks REQUIRED flying to get around in, and they're both regarded as exceptional zones.

You could NEVER achieve what those two zones achieved by having players travel around on foot. The grand vistas of Ulduar, the carpet of zombies that seethed through Icecrown, the towering mountains... all of those things were possible because FLYING was taken into account while making them. Kun'lai would have benefited greatly by designing its northern reaches with flying in mind; having the entire area traversable by foot makes it feel decidedly smaller and less epic in scale because they had to MAKE it that way.


And if blizzard is designing zones that "don't ever require flying," then you really aren't going to see zones like Storm Peaks or Icecrown anymore.

Storm Peaks required flying for only a few quests. You could get around a large portion of Icecrown as well. Either way, they could have easily made FP's or ports for those quests. Plenty of zones in this game were made pre flying, and without flying in mind. Blades Edge? Ferelas?

I've also never heard Icecrown and Storm Peaks called exceptional. Regardless, ports and FPs make flying not necessary there. Ulduar wasn't even a questing zone. Also, Blizzard has stated dislike for flying mounts, and never stated they are caving to the "no flyers" whines..

Originally Posted by Kazlofski

So happy that they stand on their own tbh and don't give in.

Giving in always resulted in worse possibilities than what they could have been.
I see the bigger picture that they are trying to do and I fully support it, sounds way more interesting.

ill be happy as long as the roumor ive been hearing isnt true that when and if 6.1 has any new content flying will be blocked there till 6.2

Originally Posted by Sarevokcz

did you read their answers? they didnt actually give a good reason beyond "quiesting is trivial," which is mostly nonissue, if there are no heirlooom books and flying is restricted to max level. they just used slippery slopes with 3 bosses in one room and no trash ever BS answers. They arent creative enough to make people want to stay on the ground, so they just prohibit flying.

Except, people do bitch about trash mobs all the time. Its not even about creativity, few MMORPGs actually utilize flying mounts. 1-2 that I can think of.

What arrogant responses from ghostcrawler. I am gonna laugh when they bite him in the ass one day finally.

Originally Posted by Staticus

This is just pathetic...Blizz are no better than anyone on any forum anywhere that take things to extremes to make a point during an argument.



They are also highly ignorant or deliberately ignoring the facts about mobs...there is NO danger WHATSOEVER in the outdoor world, mobs are nothing but slowdowns.

The fact is, they don't like the fact that we use flying mounts to make max-level farming/grinding/dailies much faster/more efficient, and they want to remove that. I can think of a hundred things they could do to slow us down even more though, and I'm surprised they haven't introduced any of them yet.

I look forward to seeing the game you design so I can not play it...

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Originally Posted by thunderdragon2

ill be happy as long as the roumor ive been hearing isnt true that when and if 6.1 has any new content flying will be blocked there till 6.2

What MOP zones added after the expansion can you fly in?

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

Don't be fooled; spoiled brats whining about "flying ruining the game" is the entire reason their trying this little timesink experiment in the first place.


So you just need to fight whining with whining.

Icecrown Glacier and Storm Peaks REQUIRED flying to get around in, and they're both regarded as exceptional zones.

You could NEVER achieve what those two zones achieved by having players travel around on foot. The grand vistas of Ulduar, the carpet of zombies that seethed through Icecrown, the towering mountains... all of those things were possible because FLYING was taken into account while making them. Kun'lai would have benefited greatly by designing its northern reaches with flying in mind; having the entire area traversable by foot makes it feel decidedly smaller and less epic in scale because they had to MAKE it that way.
And if blizzard is designing zones that "don't ever require flying," then you really aren't going to see zones like Storm Peaks or Icecrown anymore.

*he raised his hand and stood, walking forward a few steps and approaching the squabbling circle of admired elders and younglings.*
It's true and ultimately very sad. Wrath of the Lich King was the first expansion I played and it felt epic, logging in for the first time into the World. Leveling up actually felt like it meant something. Now, like you said, everything is on a much smaller scale and they force "no flying"... like sure, things may be more fun for a little bit, but no one, absolutely no one, enjoys daily grinds without flying mounts. *glares at Isle of Thunder and Timeless Isles.* It would be awesome to revisit Northrend next, as it's been 2 years since we've been in touch with the Scourge and I wonder how Lord Bolvar is doing now that he's taken over. Is everything frostfire now? Or is it still ice? *he shrugged and returned to his seat, he had nothing else to say for the moment.*

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

It was literally carpeted with elites in some areas. The entire place was rife with scourge. The massive battlements, tiered buildings; nothing they've made sense has come close to that level of building up the final bad guy.

You can't beat Storm Peak's scenery or Ambiance. It was an exceptional zone. And I spent three months straight sitting in it waiting for the Time Lost proto drake, and I STILL think it's a great zone.

I certainly wouldn't have felt that way flying in circles around Shadowmoon or Nagrand. I started to hate shadowmoon valley flying across it to do the Netherwing quests.

Well, most of Icecrown was a waste. The huge path of elites/zombies had only one quest chain involving them if one at all. ALL the other quests were on the outside of the zone. The FP, The Tourney, the two spires, and two Vrykul areas.. and the UD crafting area.. thats about it. The seething zombies did almost nothing but divide the zone.

As far as Northrend, Dragonblight was much better. Good story, HUGE BATTLES RAGING, Naxx, ruined keeps and villages, dragon shrines...

I'm also not sure why you hated SMV. So much lore there. BT, The volcano, lava, elementals, INfernals assaulting Horde and Alliance, ghost riders, ghosts, demons, dragons..

Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan

Storm Peaks required flying for only a few quests. You could get around a large portion of Icecrown as well. Either way, they could have easily made FP's or ports for those quests. Plenty of zones in this game were made pre flying, and without flying in mind. Blades Edge? Ferelas?

I've also never heard Icecrown and Storm Peaks called exceptional. Regardless, ports and FPs make flying not necessary there. Ulduar wasn't even a questing zone. Also, Blizzard has stated dislike for flying mounts, and never stated they are caving to the "no flyers" whines..

I'm sorry, but what Icecrown and Storm Peaks are YOU remembering?

You literally could not progress past perhaps the first five or 10 quests in EITHER zone without flying. This wasn't a matter of finding some hard-to-find road, this was legitimately a sheer insurmountable cliff blocking the way.

Icecrown? Maybe you could have run along the trackless snow wastes that flanked the zone for a bit on either side, but those weren't anywhere near the actual quests.


Add in a few flight paths? Again, you clearly do not remember the zones very well. There were giant hills where you'd go for one set of quests (Harpy hill in storm peaks, for example.) There were no roads up there.

And you know what? The zone was still great.



Also, in what world is blade's edge mountain a good example of... anything? That place has the dubious honor of being both a pain in the ass to traverse on land AND by air.

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

I'm sorry, but what Icecrown and Storm Peaks are YOU remembering?

You literally could not progress past perhaps the first five or 10 quests in EITHER zone without flying. This wasn't a matter of finding some hard-to-find road, this was legitimately a sheer insurmountable cliff blocking the way.

Icecrown? Maybe you could have run along the trackless snow wastes that flanked the zone for a bit on either side, but those weren't anywhere near the actual quests.


Add in a few flight paths? Again, you clearly do not remember the zones very well. There were giant hills where you'd go for one set of quests (Harpy hill in storm peaks, for example.) There were no roads up there.

And you know what? The zone was still great.


Also, in what world is blade's edge mountain a good example of... anything? That place has the dubious honor of being both a pain in the ass to traverse on land AND by air.

Having a hill isn't the same as requiring flight. Pure and simple, thats a fact. I would also suggest you go back and honestly try traversing those zones with a ground mount.

Trackless snow wastes? Try again man. Blades Edge was a pretty cool zone. Everyone loved it on my server. Its a good example, because it shows they can make mountains and cliffs without requiring FPs or Flight... AGAIN.

Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan

Well, most of Icecrown was a waste. The huge path of elites/zombies had only one quest chain involving them if one at all. ALL the other quests were on the outside of the zone. The FP, The Tourney, the two spires, and two Vrykul areas.. and the UD crafting area.. thats about it. The seething zombies did almost nothing but divide the zone.

Actually, the central vrykul area was in the middle of the zone, and there were several different quests where you went down into the glacier to deal with the undead... including the one where you got to be Arthas.

Though I'm not entirely sure what "being on the edge of the zone" really has to do with anything. They were most definitely integral parts of the zone. And you want to talk about Lore? ICECROWN is your "lore final zone," certainly not Shadowmoon valley.

As far as Northrend, Dragonblight was much better. Good story, HUGE BATTLES RAGING, Naxx, ruined keeps and villages, dragon shrines...

Dragonblight was the epitome of flat and boring. It had charm in some of the forest regions and under naxx, but beyond that... that was it.

I'm also not sure why you hated SMV. So much lore there. BT, The volcano, lava, elementals, INfernals assaulting Horde and Alliance, ghost riders, ghosts, demons, dragons..

"lore" doesn't mean jack diddly if you don't tell it well. At NO POINT in Burning Crusade was lore ever explicated upon or made a major event; shadowmoon valley is absolutely no exception. I don't feel that saying "BUT ILLIDAN WAS THERE!" actually means "good lore was told."

As far as lava, volcanoes, and elementals? Yeah, that kind of looks cool to begin with, but when the ENTIRE ZONE is "ruins, lava, and volcanoes," all in the same neon green and black, it gets kind of tiresome.

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Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan

Having a hill isn't the same as requiring flight. Pure and simple, thats a fact. I would also suggest you go back and honestly try traversing those zones with a ground mount.

Well I know that you can't get to the harpy area on foot, can't get to the alliance FP on foot, can't actually go BETWEEN the zones on foot (Engine of the makers is completely walled off by mountains,) can't get from the bottom of the ZONE to any of the higher areas on foot, can't get across to Ulduar on foot, can't get over to the storm giant/vrykul area on foot, which itself is completely seperated from the questing/southern Ulduar complex...

If you wanted to get super technical, the entire zone is roughly broken into five or so giant subregions that can't be accessed from one another, and are extremely mountainous AND spread out within themselves, and a myriad of questing areas up on the tops of cliffs that are inaccessible from any of the points on the ground.

Trackless snow wastes? Try again man.

Icecrown was very much full of trackless snow wastes.

Blades Edge was a pretty cool zone. Everyone loved it on my server. Its a good example, because it shows they can make mountains and cliffs without requiring FPs or Flight... AGAIN.

Blade's edge "mountains?" More like "blade's edge plateaus." It was little chunks of flat land striated up and down some hills that were roughly connected into something about black dragons and ogres.

I'm sorry, but from almost every point, blade's edge was a pretty crappy zone. When the best thing about it is that "it has some cool raptor NPCs," that's not saying much.

Originally Posted by Kaleredar

Actually, the central vrykul area was in the middle of the zone, and there were several different quests where you went down into the glacier to deal with the undead... including the one where you got to be Arthas.

Though I'm not entirely sure what "being on the edge of the zone" really has to do with anything. They were most definitely integral parts of the zone. And you want to talk about Lore? ICECROWN is your "lore final zone," certainly not Shadowmoon valley.



Dragonblight was the epitome of flat and boring. It had charm in some of the forest regions and under naxx, but beyond that... that was it.

"lore" doesn't mean jack diddly if you don't tell it well. At NO POINT in Burning Crusade was lore ever explicated upon or made a major event; shadowmoon valley is absolutely no exception. I don't feel that saying "BUT ILLIDAN WAS THERE!" actually means "good lore was told."

As far as lava, volcanoes, and elementals? Yeah, that kind of looks cool to begin with, but when the ENTIRE ZONE is "ruins, lava, and volcanoes," all in the same neon green and black, it gets kind of tiresome.

The central Vrykul area you could walk to. Look at the Icecrown map, the dark blue is almost nothing. Only a few quests require you to go there. The majority of quests are on the outsides of the zones, most of which you can walk to on foot.

Dragonblight also had valleys, and mountains. Underground caves, shores, cities, keeps and etc. Massive Mountains =/=always good zone. BEM would be an amazing zone with that logic.

I also doubt your knowledge of the lore, as its very very very very limited I guess.

Its also ironic you mention an entire zone looking the same. DO you think Icecrown was that drastic or dynamic? Most snow and hills and ICC. White or blue..