Armory Stats - Siege of Orgrimmar Progression, Blue Tweets, DLC #423

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Armory Stats - Siege of Orgrimmar Progression
Today we are taking a look at the Siege of Orgrimmar progression of players in each difficulty. Now that achievements are account wide, we can group characters by account and get an idea of what percentage of players (not characters) have defeated a boss on any difficulty at least once, based on progression data.

The data used today is a sample made up of 6.9 million characters from 2.5 million accounts, with at least one character active after November 1. The sample is slightly biased, as players who are not in a guild are much less likely to appear in our sample.

The second chart uses the number of players that killed Immerseus in each difficulty as the base of participating players for that difficulty. Each difficulty can be toggled on and off by clicking the name in the legend.

We looked at absolute percentage numbers for Heroic difficulty a few days ago and included those numbers in the charts here, but keep in mind we used a different date for the cutoff then, which can change the percentages slightly. You can leave suggestions for future stat posts in the comments!

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Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Art
Since Ogres are getting a new model in Warlords, is that a model just for Warlords or for all Ogres?
Draenor Ogres less devolved than Azeroth won't be the same model for each, would like to update both eventually (Source)

Need a rework of all npc's in WoWand a rework of the classic mounts
npc's will update with new player models. Have heard a lot about mount updates, something I would like to do eventually. (Source)

For later on additions to the game. Can druid forms wear certain parts of armor? Give the forms more uniqueness/flavor etc.
we've played around with this, but it's nigh impossible to make shoulder/helm/belt attach. look good on that model (Source)

Can we expect more class-unique animations? Dual throw for fury storm bolt, shuriken and glaive toss? Hunter looks dull btw
I know our animators are fired up excited about doing this, it's on the wish list. (Source)

Is MoP just going to be forgotten or are you going to work to keep the artwork alive in future content?
most likely we'll find ways to bring Pandaren culture/art into Azeroth now that the veil has been lifted. (Source)

Could we see the return of simple cloaks in WoD? The latest expansions brought a lot of incredibly overcomplicated designs.
we did get a little crazy on a few, I'll keep it in mind. Had a few thoughts on capes on last WoW Source if interested. (Source)

So is it you we ask for glyphs? Can Monks get one that turns Rising Sun Kick into Flaming Dragon Punch?
Glyphs mostly class/system (& to lesser extent profs) but anyone on team can suggest & help out. But new anims = unlikely glyph! (Source)

will we see heavenly blue cloud serpents? i can understand no green thoughhttps://t.co/qQbQup8Tfr look at it! look at it!
Probably eventually? Hopefully not w/ green drake level delay! (Source)

Character / Items
Can you make it a policy (if you already haven't) to de-associate fun cosmetics and trinkets?
I don't make policy, though I can suggest them. I'm not certain that'd be a good policy, though. I can see arguments for either way. (Source)
I'd be curious to hear arguments in favor of trinkets with toys. I honestly can't think of any.
Some are less freedom for item peeps to make fun player power rewards & intentional mudflation. Note that I am not making any args. (Source)
I dunno, above all, I'd expect that you design a toy with the intent of having it played with. Trinkets contradict that.
A toy is a toy. A trinket is a trinket; whether or not one thinks it's fun enough to qualify as a toy. Diff. items, diff. purposes. (Source)
What about things like Super Simian Sphere and Piccolo of the Flaming Fire, which are trinkets w/ no trinkety purpose?
PFF is an OLD item from a different time & SSS is copied from one (Orb of D). Always going to be a few odd exceptions! (Source)
Can we make Time-Lost Figurine a toy? I'd love to keep the form in end game content.
I don't know if items peeps have plans to modify old drops. I do suspect they're trinkets out of tradition. (Source)

Entirely separate question is all the trinkets/toys/tabards that provide teleports/hearths. Toybox y/n?
Toy box turns items into spells (e.g. current pets & mounts). Unlikely for equipped items, but maybe. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor Stats
So say if i have a Cleave gem inside im DPS and when i switch to my Healing kit will the Cleave gem still be there?
Cleave is a tertiary; not gemmable. But if you meant Crit, yes. (Source)

Will pet classes/specs benefit from Multstrike as much as petless? Currently f.ex multstrike isn't good for BM but is for SV.
Yes. Pets benefit from all of the new stats. (Source)

PvP
Any chance WoD can reduce the ridiculous item level jumps from season to season? 496 to 522 is just too big a difference.
Unfortunately, I think that gap is going to continue to exist. Something has to give when trying to keep up with PvE ilevels. (Source)
does that mean the gap between pvp and pve ilvl will be as big as it is right now in current wow?
No the plan is to improve that gap. (Source)

On a scale of 1 to 9000, how cool is Ashran ?
It's really coming along. Big challenge is it's tough to iterate on something that requires 200+ players to play like live. (Source)

Any worry that glad-range players will "tank" their alts below whatever cutoff you come up with in order to up their main's rank?
Spit in the ocean to be honest. They could have done the same with teams. (Source)

people give you shit but with the name change i expect a good christmas present. are you fixing 2v2, the most played bracket??
Feel it would benefit more from an earlier start to dampening than 3s, especially when both teams have a healer. (Source)
That seems like a really good point, a good place to go from. would seperating double dps and healer dps be an option balance wise?
No we don't think it's necessary or good to segregate healer teams in that way. (Source)

Is there going to be arena system that there is now + the special Trial of the Gladiator, or the classic rating is removed?
We're still discussing it based on a lot of negative feedback about the idea of rating disappearing from the existing queue. (Source)

Professions
Thought about making crafting an endgame option in same vein as PvE and PvP? Revamping, making crafting epic (as per leg cloak)
That & many other variants on what crafting could be have come up over the years. Not sure what their plans are for WoD now. (Source)

dave, can you shed some light on Wod archeology? Will we have new race types? Or more orc and dreanei stuff?
Don't know much about current plans aside from proposed QoL improvements. I'll probably help make some toys for it, though! (Source)

Any plans to bring the other Professions to the late game model that Blacksmith/Mining/Herbs has? (ie: easier leveling path)
Not heavily involved w/ professions. Archaeology is likely to get a similar treatment for WoD. Can't speak for the others! (Source)

Dark Legacy Comics #423
DLC #423 has been released!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Armory Stats - Siege of Orgrimmar Progression, Blue Tweets, DLC #423 started by chaud View original post
Published on 2014-01-13 02:05 AM
58 Comments
Comments 58 Comments
  1. Toiran's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by twothe View Post
    Can you please double-check the statistic... because if it is correct and 81% of all players never raided normal mode, then we can officially declare WoW as dead... Oo
    Raiding is FAR more popular now.

    People on fansites like us, are more "involved" with the game than the average player, most of us raid, thus we assume that just about everyone raids, it's what we see as the endgame right? So why wouldn't everyone be doing it? But it's far from the truth, the vast majority do not raid, LFR has improved that massively, and as has Flex.

    Heroic raiding has always been in the low low %'s as current content, that's what it's designed for, it's successful for it's target market.

    Also, the dev's aren't really convincing anyone they may be further along with development, sure it's still pretty early days, but nearly every answer since Blizzcon is "We don't know, we haven't done that yet/haven't talked about it yet/We haven't started yet", it's slightly discouraging.
  1. IsrafaelMage's Avatar
    Is it really justified to use Immerseus as the 100%? Some guilds on my server killed Norushen first, and Immerseus only afterwards (not us though). Also, i wonder if people who never stepped foot inside LFR (i have total of 1 boss kill in the current LFR - i did shamans for the trinket which i got on 1st go) are counted in the data.
  1. Rioo's Avatar
    Personally I haven't completed SoO LFR with any of my characters. I've done Flex and Normal, but just can't make myself do LFR with even my alts that need the gear still.
  1. Primernova's Avatar
    The content, being the reward, is what made WoW great.

    If everyone can just 'Tra-LaLa..." through it, it will continue to bleed.

    Why did it have to go so wrong?
  1. Shiroh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by IsrafaelMage View Post
    Is it really justified to use Immerseus as the 100%? Some guilds on my server killed Norushen first, and Immerseus only afterwards
    It's only a problem if there are many guilds who killed Norushen HC but never Immerseus HC. I doubt the number is high enough to create a bias. I guess this can be checked?
  1. IsrafaelMage's Avatar
    It's only a problem if there are many guilds who killed Norushen HC but never Immerseus HC. I doubt the number is high enough to create a bias. I guess this can be checked?
    Well, thats what i wanted to see.. its just a question, not a critique per se. What i was thinking is the following - Norushen is much easier than immerseus in terms of mechanics (i.e. they are the same as normal, just pure numbers), so it may be the reason some groups often opt to do him first (this may vary - it took us 6 pulls to kill immerseus (even less if you discount stupid ninja pulls), and around 15 for norushen). So i'd love to see if this trend is somehow reflected into data, or its just our terribad server with people who love to cheese.
  1. chaud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Nice statistics.

    Just a little input: It would be good if the little gray boxes would share the color strength of their respective bars.
    LFR: pale gray
    Flex: moderate gray
    Normal: full gray.

    BTW: I would have added heroic into the first diagram. Just so people really get a feel for how tiny the HC raiding population really is.
    Done, but I hope people see the warning. The numbers are so small that using a different date and using achievements rather than progression data can change the data slightly.

    Quote Originally Posted by noladrew View Post
    There's no way the second graph is correct. I find it very hard to believe that 100% of players sampled have killed heroic Immerseus and that more players sampled have killed heroic Norushen than Normal. Where did you get this info from!?
    I didn't put the text there for fun, please read it.

    Quote Originally Posted by noladrew View Post
    The title for the second graph should be a bit more detailed on what it exactly is then :3
    I am open to suggestions, but there is only space for another two words or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by IsrafaelMage View Post
    Is it really justified to use Immerseus as the 100%? Some guilds on my server killed Norushen first, and Immerseus only afterwards (not us though). Also, i wonder if people who never stepped foot inside LFR (i have total of 1 boss kill in the current LFR - i did shamans for the trinket which i got on 1st go) are counted in the data.
    I understand that some guilds don't do him first, but more players overall have killed Immerseus.

    Quote Originally Posted by IsrafaelMage View Post
    Is it really justified to use Immerseus as the 100%? Some guilds on my server killed Norushen first, and Immerseus only afterwards (not us though). Also, i wonder if people who never stepped foot inside LFR (i have total of 1 boss kill in the current LFR - i did shamans for the trinket which i got on 1st go) are counted in the data.
    Anyone who has more than 0 kills was counted for a boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by IsrafaelMage View Post
    Well, thats what i wanted to see.. its just a question, not a critique per se. What i was thinking is the following - Norushen is much easier than immerseus in terms of mechanics (i.e. they are the same as normal, just pure numbers), so it may be the reason some groups often opt to do him first (this may vary - it took us 6 pulls to kill immerseus (even less if you discount stupid ninja pulls), and around 15 for norushen). So i'd love to see if this trend is somehow reflected into data, or its just our terribad server with people who love to cheese.
    I could find the number of players with the Heroic Norushen achievement but not with the Heroic Immerseus one if that would help.
  1. Weep's Avatar
    As much as I'm looking forward to the new expansion the single-most dreaded moment of it for me will be the moment when I have to replace my lovely legendary cloak with something else.
  1. Balir's Avatar
    LOLing at DLC.
  1. Ieyasu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chaud View Post
    I am open to suggestions, but there is only space for another two words or so.
    Maybe Percentage of Heroic participating player that defeated SoO bosses or Percentage of participating player that defeated SoO Heroic bosses.
  1. caervek's Avatar
    So the 39.9% and rising players who cleared normal will have nothing to do in WoD if their not in a 25M Mythic guild, nice work Blizz, really got your numbers right on that one, not...
  1. Granyala's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chaud View Post
    Done, but I hope people see the warning. The numbers are so small that using a different date and using achievements rather than progression data can change the data slightly.
    Looks great!
    Lets just hope people read the footnote about the gathering of the data...
    aah who am I kidding. ._.
  1. chaud's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ieyasu View Post
    Maybe Percentage of Heroic participating player that defeated SoO bosses or Percentage of participating player that defeated SoO Heroic bosses.
    But it isn't just Heroic, each difficulty is based on the number that killed Immerseus in that difficulty.
  1. Gruffertus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    So the 39.9% and rising players who cleared normal will have nothing to do in WoD if they're not in a 25M Mythic guild, nice work Blizz, really got your numbers right on that one, not...
    1) I think they're doing better with their numbers than you... (it's 20M)

    2) Also by this stage in 5.0 - it was already 5.1!

    3) The incredible return of I think they're doing better with their numbers than you... (it's 7.7% who have cleared normal)

    4) And of those who have cleared normal, 90% of them have cleared Heroic Immerseus - not bad for people with nothing to do.
  1. Tarfik's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Regalbeast View Post
    Wow, awesome data. Good to see that LFR is successful in that it's main purpose is to help more people see the content. Good job Blizz!
    yeah helped a lot of ppl in guilds that for many reasons can't raid!
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Frika View Post
    i was thinking the same thing ... :\ plus the fact that a lot of their responses end up with "we are still not sure how xxxxx will work at this point but we are thinking about it" If u look over all there are very few mechanics that they have decided on at this point of time :\ Blizz has ideas yes but its only that ideas...
    Yeah I'm seeing way too many "we're not sure yet" posts and it's unsettling. They should be sure, everything should be finalized and beta should be rolling out. I'm not confident in a release date anytime soon. I'm thinking "faster expacs" and "WoD is farther along" are flat out lies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also I'm laughing more at the people unable to read and understand the second graph than I am at the comic. That's the real joke.
  1. Kathranis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    Yeah I'm seeing way too many "we're not sure yet" posts and it's unsettling. They should be sure, everything should be finalized and beta should be rolling out. I'm not confident in a release date anytime soon. I'm thinking "faster expacs" and "WoD is farther along" are flat out lies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also I'm laughing more at the people unable to read and understand the second graph than I am at the comic. That's the real joke.
    Blizzard isn't going to clearly answer questions about things that they haven't completely nailed down. Systems changes take a long time to fully implement and a lot of iteration.

    If they say, "Yes, here's the plan," right now, and then decide to change things layer, it will create confusion, mistrust, and backlash amongst the playerbase. That's why Blizzard stopped being so open about development in the first place. The CMs and devs used to be far more open, but players kept misinterpreting "maybe" or "currently planned" for "guaranteed to happen" or "we promise," and it caused problems.

    Also, please consider that most of these questions are fairly simple system changes, often for things that Dave Maldo isn't even directly involved with. IE, "we're not sure if we want to turn trinkets into toys or keep them trinkets."

    The vast majority of the expansion's design is environment and content related, not systems related.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chaud View Post
    I didn't put the text there for fun, please read it.
    I'd suggest changing the title for the second graphic to make it less ambiguous. Expecting certain people to read text that isn't bold and twice as large as everything else on the page might be a bit unrealistic...

    Maybe "Player Progression After Killing Immerseus In Each Difficulty"
  1. rcshaggy's Avatar
    Less work if they use the Warlords of Draenor models for the playable Ogres.
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