Battleground Win Ratios, Upcoming SoO Changes Feedback, Blue Tweets, DLC #424

Balance on Legendary Drops, Zakarum, Paladins, Templars and Crusaders, Are Numbers Too Large in RoS

Armory Stats - Battleground Win Ratios
Today we are taking a look at the win percentage for each faction and battleground that took place in the last month. To find these numbers, we compared the number of battles and victories a character had in a December snapshot of data to a January snapshot of data.

These numbers come from a character's statistics pane, so any bugs with character statistics will have skewed the results. This means that there isn't any way for us to verify how accurate these numbers are, so do not take them as fact.

Percentages came fairly close to 100% in most cases, so we normalized the data to 100%. Unfortunately it seems that most Eye of the Storm wins are still not recorded in your statistics most of the time. This bug has been around for five or more years now, but we normalized the data we had (~7.9% and ~9.8% win ratios for each faction) for the chart.

The data used today is a sample made up of ~7 million level 90 characters and ~7 million battles. The sample is slightly biased, as players who are not in a guild are less likely to appear in our sample.

You can see the data from the last time we did this back in 2011, which shows a slightly different picture.

Don't see a chart? Enable javascript!

Upcoming Siege of Orgrimmar Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
I agree. I also am not sure why removing the trivial healing mechanic from Sigecrafter is even...worth it. Most guilds are 4 healing this encounter to kill it, now it's definitely going to be a 4 heal fight. Directly after your tuned for 6-8 fight, Thok. ???
Raid groups are largely making steady progress, but as I said, there are exceptions. Regarding Heroic difficulty in particular, it's pretty obvious that there is a very large jump in difficulty from Thok to Siegecrafter. Siegecrafter/Paragons/Garrosh are currently very close to equal in difficulty, with each presenting different challenges and guilds taking roughly the same number of attempts to defeat each. We'd rather see an upward slope in difficulty, which leaves guilds feeling like the next step is within reach given enough time and dedication, rather than a sudden jump up to a much higher difficulty plateau. That's why we're nerfing Heroic Blackfuse moderately, Paragons just a little bit, and Garrosh not at all.

The changes shouldn't be enough to meaningfully alter healer composition, but they will make some of those "combo" deaths to two damage sources overlapping a bit less likely.

I'm certain that guilds who have already defeated these encounters or who are on the verge of doing so will find that the adjustments make a big difference, but remember, that's because you've already refined a working strategy and have practiced the execution. Guilds coming into the fights for the first time will still need to handle the precise movement associated with the different Blackfuse phases, belt teams will have to learn to navigate the belt lasers consistently, and so forth. Both Blackfuse and Paragons will remain quite challenging. And then there's always Garrosh....

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Art
I've been asking to allow us to make uncorrupted orcs for a while. Any chance of that happening???
can't definitively say yes, but it's likely that will be an option in some way. It would be cool to see UO PC in Azeroth (Source)

Would it really be that difficult to update the goblin/worgen models? You guys surely still have the original LoDs, right?
I'd like to at some point, they still use our original rigging/animation system. Pandaren introduced new system. (Source)

Character / Items
Will [Ai-Li's Skymirror] ever be allowed to copy one's character illusion again? Ex: Grasp from Pre-ZF? An updated WoD version?
Those are fun, but we don't want it to become annoying, and that opens up too many possibilities. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor Stats
Will Disc at least be fixed to do double healing from a multistrike crit. Else it is 100% useless stat for Disc.
I think you may misunderstand something. Crits don't do doublehealing for Disc, as a rule. But how does that make MS useless? (Source)
Sorry, said that backwards, when a spell crit as Disc procs MS, the MS is just as powerful as non-crit, makes it feel weak
You're misunderstanding Multistrike. The healing of the hit that triggered multistrike doesn't matter. Separate healing roll. (Source)
And an MS that crits would trigger Divine Aegis. (Source)

I keep seeing promises that the item squish won't affect soloing capabilities, but is this for all characters or only level 90s?
All. (Source)
That is to say; the squish won't affect soloing capabilities, but other changes may. Soloing at low levels isn't a balance focus. (Source)

Does this mean that we'll start seeing the new stats (possibly mastery even) on gear at very low levels?
Mastery is staying lvl80+. New stats are still being determined, but most likely not available from level 1. (Source)

PvE
I hope this wouldn't replace Warstomp. I know it's not the best for PvE DPS but great for questing/soloing as a caster druid.
No, we wouldn't replace Warstomp. (Source)

PvP
That is good news! Are you planning to increase base resilience with the new season?
Yes (Source)

How big in game scale wise is Ashran? Like are we talking AV big or Wintergrasp big
From base to base is similar to AV but it's wider. (Source)
Would you say Ashran is a spiritual successor to AV? Or more like Timeless Isle?
More like AV (Source)

back to gear being the major determining factor in PvP success. Guess the accessibility experiment didn't work out?
I don't really see how you came to that conclusion. (Source)
dialing back resilience "as much as possible" says bursty PvP and emphasizes PvP power. Sounds like old times 2 me.
In WoD, health pools will be relatively larger and PvP Power is being redefined. It will end up less bursty. (Source)
Is this true for low lvl PvP too? Some spells are too potent in heirloom gear. Aimed Shot and Shield Slam can *literally* one-shot.
A lot of spells have base damage which leads to this issue. We're going through these spells to reduce the base damage. (Source)

so I was wondering if you guys could start doing realm rankings/leaders instead of region? A lot of friends and I are curious.
We've gotten the request a lot so we'll have to look into it. (Source)
"Instead"? Why not "in addition to"?
Certainly what I meant (Source)

It also feels lousy to work hard to acquire full grievous gear only to be killed by a dragon slayer in heroic pve gear
Yup, we've mentioned we don't want to end up in this situation again. (Source)
but I give you credit in admiting that what occurred was not what you intended.
Certain systems (like warforged and upgrades) that inflate ilevels didn't make much sense for PvP. (Source)
PvP not having them meant gear falling further behind. (Source)

I've already given you a good solution. Nerf dmg/healing by 65/55% and roll those numbers into a raid wide buff for players who pve
It isn't a good solution for the same reasons base resilience and battle fatigue aren't good solutions. (Source)
The entire reason why you needed BF/Resil is because abilities do too much damage/healing.
It's lousy to have a spell hit for 100k against a creature and 20k against a player no matter where you increase/decrease it. (Source)

as horde I frequently spend more time in random BG queue then in the actual games. Fix it please. Faction conflict !> fast queues
I wish it could be fixed quickly. I really do. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor
Didnt know where to ask. Blizzcon mention quest items gone from bank in WoD. Will my [Amulet of Draconic Subversion] disappear?
Don't know yet. Could be considered a Toy, perhaps. If you still have the quest, may be kept. Very up in the air, know important (Source)

Dark Legacy Comics - #424
DLC #424 has been released!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Battleground Win Ratios, Upcoming SoO Changes Feedback, Blue Tweets, DLC #424 started by chaud View original post
Published on 2014-01-20 01:58 AM
219 Comments
Comments 218 Comments
  1. D-Throes's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    Horde dominates all mirror maps.

    What does that say about Alliance players?
    nothing keep playing?
    im laughing at whordies that cry that av and ioc favors the ally haha
  1. Dispirit's Avatar
    absolutely hilarious and as a horde player that doesn't blacklist AV or IoC only because it's a much shorter queue if you don't....not surprising. of course i afk in either a cave or a tower and browse the internet/watch tv....so whatever.
  1. Levit's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastgope View Post
    No LEARN TO READ or atleast LEARN TO STATISTICS.

    The other 9 BG's are closer to the dream 50/50 Ratio, so close that there are probably other factors involved, like Racial's or Playerskill. Than look at the 40 Man BG's.

    Can you see the difference?

    Ok, so Arathi Basin= Horde 60% to Alli 40%(20% losing ratio not good or even close to your 50%) Warsong Gulch=47.4% Alli to 52.6 Horde ( The only one close to your so call dream ratio. still almost a 6% discrepancy) EOS= Alli 44% to horde 55%( 10% no even close). SOTA= 34%Alli to Horde 68%(That's 30% not even close) TP= 42% Alliance 57% to horde (12% not close.) BFG= 42% to Alli 57% horde ( 12% diff) ToK= 41% Alli to 58% Horde(17% diff) SM= 35% Alli to 64% horde( 30% diff again) DG= 42% Alli to 57% horde ( 15% diff.)

    So I say again we only have 2 BGs as ally and you still complain and moan that they should be taken away. didn't they ever tell you you being greedy is bad.
  1. Skarssen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    So we should have one BG that favours Alliance by design (AV) .. because they can't win other battlegrounds by properly working as a team?

    What does say about Alliance players?
    Alliance doesn't have an advantage in AV or IoC. I have never once seen a horde team backcap towers in AV, and I have never seen horde make a concerted attempt to kill the first round of glaives in IoC. Horde lose those two because all the good players blacklist them and the Horde players that do play them don't know a winning strategy. The same thing happens in the other 9 BGs; Alliance loses all the time so Alliance players don't ever experience winning strategies.
  1. mmoce1e4d9dec7's Avatar
    nothing keep playing?
    im laughing at whordies that cry that av and ioc favors the ally haha
    That's most likely because Alterac Valley has shorter distances for Alliance, easier bosses and multiple choke points that cannot be circumvented in any way, not to mention the tower design is less convoluted and makes it easier for ranged to move and kite.

    It's been on the table since 2005 when AV came out and nothing was ever done about it. One spawn change was made and that's about it.

    Alliance doesn't have an advantage in AV or IoC.
    In IoC no but in AV they do and there were lots of discussion about it on the "old" forums which are now inaccessible unfortunately.
  1. mmoc7b2361416c's Avatar
    Alterac Valley, remove reinforcements and make boss unkillable without towers being down!
  1. Mammoon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    Alliance doesn't have an advantage in AV or IoC. I have never once seen a horde team backcap towers in AV, and I have never seen horde make a concerted attempt to kill the first round of glaives in IoC. Horde lose those two because all the good players blacklist them and the Horde players that do play them don't know a winning strategy. The same thing happens in the other 9 BGs; Alliance loses all the time so Alliance players don't ever experience winning strategies.
    Please think about this for a second.

    In all the BGs that the zone is completely identical, horde has a better win rate.... and you are saying it is because (even though the game is 10 years old) the Alliance hasn't figured out winning strategies.

    In all the BGs that the zone is different for each side, the alliance has a HUGELY favored win record... and you are saying it is because (even though the game is 10 years old) the Horde hasn't figured out winning strategies.

    Like, seriously? That is your argument?
  1. Priority's Avatar
    I would play alliance for random bgs if they were at least fun, but from my experience they are just awful. I just got out of a AB, I was playing on my horde priest in some season 14 gear. I was the only healer on horde. Ally had 4, 3 of which were much better geared than myself. We won with 3 bases, having 4 most of the game. I have to assume bots are involved. My heals were equal to 3 of their healers combined. I think if you are Alliance play AV/IoC. Less chance you will be set up with bots, they are the two bgs where Alliance players will actually want to play.
  1. Khwaj's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbath234543 View Post
    You are missing the point, a LOT of Alliance only queue for IOC and AV because its a steamroll when half of the opposing team are bots, I dare you to roll a 90 on horde and queue IOC so you can watch 10-20 people every game mount up at the beginning, pile up into a ball and run continuously to mid then graveyard run the rest of the game because they are all using the same program. Never again will I ever join that madness, if you dont blacklist then all you get is IOC and AV, I shit you not... every game... If Blizz removes blacklisting and all that pops is AV and IOC over and over again, ill just selectively queue and pass on insta queues with 90% losses for 50 honor.
    There is no cp in specific q'ing outside of cta
    also im trying to work my way slowly towards bloodthirsty and i also like cp along the way as a bonus
    so outside of cta, i always use q rbg
    on avg its takes me about 4-6 random bgs to get the daily 150cp done, on a bad streak it takes about 6-8 randoms
    outside of lucky landing in av/ioc first go, i rarely get them (im lucky i get one of them in 20-30 games)
    so your point has absolutely no meaning to me

    at the end of the day THIS is what happens
    horde bl av/ioc, allies bl 2 of the other 9

    both sides q random bgs, but since there is a lot of horde players that blacklist the ONLY 2 that they lose more in, the randomd bg q will be like 80-90% of the 9 remaining bgs and that horde has the advantage in
    so horde wins those bgs more often

    small disadvantage is the longer q times which i think it a price well worth paying

    edit:
    also i dont understand why horde think there is alliance map advantage in ioc/av
    90% of the time horde dont backcap while alliance do, when horde do, alliance generally lose
    also i dont see why they say docks are closer to alliance = instant loss, all it takes is 2 ppl to kill those glaives, they onyl have 1.2mill hp, sometimes only 1 person is required. ive killed both glaives on my hunter b4 when horde actually steamrolled to docks instead of mass hanger and partial ws
  1. Dristereau's Avatar
    Might as well add this here. I play both Factions in PVP. I always Blacklist AV and IoC as Horde, and IoC/SotA as Alliance. I blacklist these Battlegrounds because fairly often little to no PVP Happens. Alliance tactics are always the same, the outcome is based on how the Horde react. In IoC, Alliance will go Docks. If Horde kill Glaives, they can win, because Glaives are what the Alliance rely on. In AV, if the Horde defends at Galv, they usually win. Otherwise the Alliance wins usually due to Zerg.

    Regarding AV, I do consider it biased. If players listen and DKs/Paladins rush FW Towers, Alliance can be still killing Galv whilst FW are being capped. On the other hand, I consider SSM to be Horde biased due to ease of access to both Lava and Mid Carts.

    Why do the Horde win more? Teamwork, Gear and Playing the Objective. Horde players from my experience often have Gear that currently is mostly Grievous, yet Alliance often have Timeless Gear or Ungemmed/Unenchanted Tyrannical. Alliance Players are more interested in fighting than trying to win the BG, and willing to ignore Objectives if they can kill that bad guy. Horde seem to have more focus on killing Healers, and Alliance sometimes ignores them.

    If Horde were to defend AV, you would see a different result in that BG. Gear and Healers in smaller BGs are much more important than in the 40 Man PVE Raids (AV/IoC). Looking at BGTargets, you can often tell which team will win based on HP and Healers.

    These are my Personal opinions. I've recorded the last 100 BGs I played (4th Jan - 18th Jan) and will hopefully post the results of my experiences soon, when I organize them.
  1. slackjawsix's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dispirit View Post
    absolutely hilarious and as a horde player that doesn't blacklist AV or IoC only because it's a much shorter queue if you don't....not surprising. of course i afk in either a cave or a tower and browse the internet/watch tv....so whatever.
    Why because an unfair game is funny? Just the opening of AV is unfair while Ally can easy kill galv with a grp of 20 the simple fact Bal freezes herself for a few seconds setting the Horde assault back is imbalanced.
  1. Self Inflicted Wounds's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lastgope View Post
    No LEARN TO READ or atleast LEARN TO STATISTICS.

    The other 9 BG's are closer to the dream 50/50 Ratio, so close that there are probably other factors involved, like Racial's or Playerskill. Than look at the 40 Man BG's.

    Can you see the difference?
    I would say A) only one of the BGs are close to 50/50 and B) its ridiculous to look at all Hordes as having "more skill" than Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    That's most likely because Alterac Valley has shorter distances for Alliance, easier bosses and multiple choke points that cannot be circumvented in any way, not to mention the tower design is less convoluted and makes it easier for ranged to move and kite.

    It's been on the table since 2005 when AV came out and nothing was ever done about it. One spawn change was made and that's about it.


    In IoC no but in AV they do and there were lots of discussion about it on the "old" forums which are now inaccessible unfortunately.
    This is ironic, because originally (and for a very long time) Horde was MUCH MUCH closer as far as spawns go. They used to be able to get to Belinda before Alliance could. Galv has ALWAYS been considered the harder boss, and the same goes for Drek. Your other two points I have seen differing opinions though.
  1. getupkid55's Avatar
    Yeah, Alliance have a landslide on IoC/AV ... but Horde wins every other BG by a sizable margin. I don't think they have a right to bitch.
  1. Dimad's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by orangelemonrain View Post
    Interesting to note that the old stats show horde having a huge win ratio over alliance in IoC though if recent memory serves me no changes to that BG have been made.
    This is true. The change came from the change in Alliance strategy. Instead of all the alliance going for docks and horde capping workshop. Alliance now grabs both which leave the horde with purely running 4 bombs at a time inside the alliance keep.
  1. Skarssen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mammoon View Post
    Please think about this for a second.

    In all the BGs that the zone is completely identical, horde has a better win rate.... and you are saying it is because (even though the game is 10 years old) the Alliance hasn't figured out winning strategies.

    In all the BGs that the zone is different for each side, the alliance has a HUGELY favored win record... and you are saying it is because (even though the game is 10 years old) the Horde hasn't figured out winning strategies.

    Like, seriously? That is your argument?
    So your argument is that Horde don't lose AV and IoC because they completely fail to backcap AV towers, and completely fail to zerg the first set of glaives (and therefore guarantee a win), but rather that Horde start farther back in AV and Alliance can reach the docks flag faster?

    Like, seriously? That is your argument?
  1. Whidbey's Avatar
    The difference in distances does not equal the fact the Horde( having played both sides in both BG's) refuses to follow any strat but Zerg.
  1. OrlyNO's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I would say A) only one of the BGs are close to 50/50 and B) its ridiculous to look at all Hordes as having "more skill" than Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is ironic, because originally (and for a very long time) Horde was MUCH MUCH closer as far as spawns go. They used to be able to get to Belinda before Alliance could. Galv has ALWAYS been considered the harder boss, and the same goes for Drek. Your other two points I have seen differing opinions though.
    Back in the days, we (Horde) had a shorter way to Belinda then Alliance had to Galv, that is very true.
    But the "advantages" Alliance have/had wasn't laying on Belinda/Galv. It's the main base.
    For Horde to get into Alliance base, we need to cross an open bridge where we have no cover from NPC fire, while Alliance has loads of buildings and mostly avoidable NPC fire. (And no bridge). Not that it does much dmg anyways. But it's the principle.
    Back when you could actually bring the wing commanders outside the keep, Alliance had an advantage there as well, as the Graveyard capture point in Alliance base was/is directly outside the keep. Which meant Horde would have to be careful with pulling the wing commanders while the GY was being captured (in case of wipe, Alliance could recap easily).
    While last Graveyard capture point inside Horde base, is past the keep, and over a bridge.. Which made it a lot safer to pull wing commanders out, cause it was easier to defend that capture point while commanders were getting killed.

    But how things are now I don't really care about.. I lost interest for pvp, as soon as resilience gear and arena came out.
  1. pimpeddakota's Avatar
    Yeap, IoC and AV, that is why those are on ignore
  1. mmocb47e9d5b09's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post

    What does say about Alliance players?
    One thing and one thing only. Alliance racials are shit in comparison.
    Anyone who fails to see this is probably retarded or trolling their ass off.
  1. godgunner's Avatar
    doesnt the graph show that on mirrored maps that the side that is better (gear/skill/teamwork) at pvp seems to win more and that on non mirrored maps the side with the map advantage will win more
    because the design so favors one side enough to be able to overcome the skill/gear/teamwork factors.

    graph says horde is wining most BG but most BG are mirrored so that means its a gear/skill/teamwork win. But on maps where its not mirrored one side or the other (which ever the map favors)
    steam rolls most of the time. (non mirrored maps are just bad design)
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