Balance on Legendary Drops, Zakarum, Paladins, Templars and Crusaders, Are Numbers Too Large in RoS

Armory Stats - Battleground Win Ratios
Today we are taking a look at the win percentage for each faction and battleground that took place in the last month. To find these numbers, we compared the number of battles and victories a character had in a December snapshot of data to a January snapshot of data.

These numbers come from a character's statistics pane, so any bugs with character statistics will have skewed the results. This means that there isn't any way for us to verify how accurate these numbers are, so do not take them as fact.

Percentages came fairly close to 100% in most cases, so we normalized the data to 100%. Unfortunately it seems that most Eye of the Storm wins are still not recorded in your statistics most of the time. This bug has been around for five or more years now, but we normalized the data we had (~7.9% and ~9.8% win ratios for each faction) for the chart.

The data used today is a sample made up of ~7 million level 90 characters and ~7 million battles. The sample is slightly biased, as players who are not in a guild are less likely to appear in our sample.

You can see the data from the last time we did this back in 2011, which shows a slightly different picture.

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Upcoming Siege of Orgrimmar Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
I agree. I also am not sure why removing the trivial healing mechanic from Sigecrafter is even...worth it. Most guilds are 4 healing this encounter to kill it, now it's definitely going to be a 4 heal fight. Directly after your tuned for 6-8 fight, Thok. ???
Raid groups are largely making steady progress, but as I said, there are exceptions. Regarding Heroic difficulty in particular, it's pretty obvious that there is a very large jump in difficulty from Thok to Siegecrafter. Siegecrafter/Paragons/Garrosh are currently very close to equal in difficulty, with each presenting different challenges and guilds taking roughly the same number of attempts to defeat each. We'd rather see an upward slope in difficulty, which leaves guilds feeling like the next step is within reach given enough time and dedication, rather than a sudden jump up to a much higher difficulty plateau. That's why we're nerfing Heroic Blackfuse moderately, Paragons just a little bit, and Garrosh not at all.

The changes shouldn't be enough to meaningfully alter healer composition, but they will make some of those "combo" deaths to two damage sources overlapping a bit less likely.

I'm certain that guilds who have already defeated these encounters or who are on the verge of doing so will find that the adjustments make a big difference, but remember, that's because you've already refined a working strategy and have practiced the execution. Guilds coming into the fights for the first time will still need to handle the precise movement associated with the different Blackfuse phases, belt teams will have to learn to navigate the belt lasers consistently, and so forth. Both Blackfuse and Paragons will remain quite challenging. And then there's always Garrosh....

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
I've been asking to allow us to make uncorrupted orcs for a while. Any chance of that happening???
can't definitively say yes, but it's likely that will be an option in some way. It would be cool to see UO PC in Azeroth (Source)

Would it really be that difficult to update the goblin/worgen models? You guys surely still have the original LoDs, right?
I'd like to at some point, they still use our original rigging/animation system. Pandaren introduced new system. (Source)

Character / Items
Will [Ai-Li's Skymirror] ever be allowed to copy one's character illusion again? Ex: Grasp from Pre-ZF? An updated WoD version?
Those are fun, but we don't want it to become annoying, and that opens up too many possibilities. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor Stats
Will Disc at least be fixed to do double healing from a multistrike crit. Else it is 100% useless stat for Disc.
I think you may misunderstand something. Crits don't do doublehealing for Disc, as a rule. But how does that make MS useless? (Source)
Sorry, said that backwards, when a spell crit as Disc procs MS, the MS is just as powerful as non-crit, makes it feel weak
You're misunderstanding Multistrike. The healing of the hit that triggered multistrike doesn't matter. Separate healing roll. (Source)
And an MS that crits would trigger Divine Aegis. (Source)

I keep seeing promises that the item squish won't affect soloing capabilities, but is this for all characters or only level 90s?
All. (Source)
That is to say; the squish won't affect soloing capabilities, but other changes may. Soloing at low levels isn't a balance focus. (Source)

Does this mean that we'll start seeing the new stats (possibly mastery even) on gear at very low levels?
Mastery is staying lvl80+. New stats are still being determined, but most likely not available from level 1. (Source)

I hope this wouldn't replace Warstomp. I know it's not the best for PvE DPS but great for questing/soloing as a caster druid.
No, we wouldn't replace Warstomp. (Source)

That is good news! Are you planning to increase base resilience with the new season?
Yes (Source)

How big in game scale wise is Ashran? Like are we talking AV big or Wintergrasp big
From base to base is similar to AV but it's wider. (Source)
Would you say Ashran is a spiritual successor to AV? Or more like Timeless Isle?
More like AV (Source)

back to gear being the major determining factor in PvP success. Guess the accessibility experiment didn't work out?
I don't really see how you came to that conclusion. (Source)
dialing back resilience "as much as possible" says bursty PvP and emphasizes PvP power. Sounds like old times 2 me.
In WoD, health pools will be relatively larger and PvP Power is being redefined. It will end up less bursty. (Source)
Is this true for low lvl PvP too? Some spells are too potent in heirloom gear. Aimed Shot and Shield Slam can *literally* one-shot.
A lot of spells have base damage which leads to this issue. We're going through these spells to reduce the base damage. (Source)

so I was wondering if you guys could start doing realm rankings/leaders instead of region? A lot of friends and I are curious.
We've gotten the request a lot so we'll have to look into it. (Source)
"Instead"? Why not "in addition to"?
Certainly what I meant (Source)

It also feels lousy to work hard to acquire full grievous gear only to be killed by a dragon slayer in heroic pve gear
Yup, we've mentioned we don't want to end up in this situation again. (Source)
but I give you credit in admiting that what occurred was not what you intended.
Certain systems (like warforged and upgrades) that inflate ilevels didn't make much sense for PvP. (Source)
PvP not having them meant gear falling further behind. (Source)

I've already given you a good solution. Nerf dmg/healing by 65/55% and roll those numbers into a raid wide buff for players who pve
It isn't a good solution for the same reasons base resilience and battle fatigue aren't good solutions. (Source)
The entire reason why you needed BF/Resil is because abilities do too much damage/healing.
It's lousy to have a spell hit for 100k against a creature and 20k against a player no matter where you increase/decrease it. (Source)

as horde I frequently spend more time in random BG queue then in the actual games. Fix it please. Faction conflict !> fast queues
I wish it could be fixed quickly. I really do. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor
Didnt know where to ask. Blizzcon mention quest items gone from bank in WoD. Will my [Amulet of Draconic Subversion] disappear?
Don't know yet. Could be considered a Toy, perhaps. If you still have the quest, may be kept. Very up in the air, know important (Source)

Dark Legacy Comics - #424
DLC #424 has been released!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Battleground Win Ratios, Upcoming SoO Changes Feedback, Blue Tweets, DLC #424 started by chaud View original post
Comments 219 Comments
  1. |Dexter|'s Avatar
    This contents zero real news just some forum chat...
  1. godgunner's Avatar
    doesnt the graph show that on mirrored maps that the side that is better (gear/skill/teamwork) at pvp seems to win more and that on non mirrored maps the side with the map advantage will win more
    because the design so favors one side enough to be able to overcome the skill/gear/teamwork factors.

    graph says horde is wining most BG but most BG are mirrored so that means its a gear/skill/teamwork win. But on maps where its not mirrored one side or the other (which ever the map favors)
    steam rolls most of the time. (non mirrored maps are just bad design)
  1. Zenny's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    One thing and one thing only. Alliance racials are shit in comparison.
    Anyone who fails to see this is probably retarded or trolling their ass off.
    lol, Every Man for Himself.
  1. Lemonpartyfan's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by OrlyNO View Post
    Back in the days, we (Horde) had a shorter way to Belinda then Alliance had to Galv, that is very true.
    But the "advantages" Alliance have/had wasn't laying on Belinda/Galv. It's the main base.
    For Horde to get into Alliance base, we need to cross an open bridge where we have no cover from NPC fire, while Alliance has loads of buildings and mostly avoidable NPC fire. (And no bridge). Not that it does much dmg anyways. But it's the principle.
    Back when you could actually bring the wing commanders outside the keep, Alliance had an advantage there as well, as the Graveyard capture point in Alliance base was/is directly outside the keep. Which meant Horde would have to be careful with pulling the wing commanders while the GY was being captured (in case of wipe, Alliance could recap easily).
    While last Graveyard capture point inside Horde base, is past the keep, and over a bridge.. Which made it a lot safer to pull wing commanders out, cause it was easier to defend that capture point while commanders were getting killed.

    But how things are now I don't really care about.. I lost interest for pvp, as soon as resilience gear and arena came out.
    While I think your GY point was totally valid, I still think the Horde has a field advantage otherwise. FW keep requires you to run through a small area, then up stairs and uphill between two towers, which Hordies can easily just stand upon and rain death upon you. You can of course do nothing. On the other side of the map, pre bridge, Horde can scale the mountains around SPGY and rain fire down there too. Its much easier to attack/defend with the high ground.

    Not to mention, again, how ridiculous it is that Horde can reach the Ally captain before we can... I mean.. if they could reach Galv before Allys reaches Balinda.. whatever.. Back in the day I had seen a group of 10 people engage Balinda before my team even got there.

    People should also quit calling this a PVE fight. Without your opponents, you could EASILY take down your opponents commander. This isn't about your struggles versus the AI controlled NPCs, this is purely about defending your own bases/captains/commanders.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by godgunner View Post
    doesnt the graph show that on mirrored maps that the side that is better (gear/skill/teamwork) at pvp seems to win more and that on non mirrored maps the side with the map advantage will win more
    because the design so favors one side enough to be able to overcome the skill/gear/teamwork factors.

    graph says horde is wining most BG but most BG are mirrored so that means its a gear/skill/teamwork win. But on maps where its not mirrored one side or the other (which ever the map favors)
    steam rolls most of the time. (non mirrored maps are just bad design)
    No, SSM and AB aren't mirrored either.
  1. ApeDosMil's Avatar
    Considering the fact that there are more alliance players than horde as a total, and considering other than AV and IoC, the maps are mostly mirrored, why would horde win more? Skill? No. Just no to that. Skilled players are on both sides. More willing healers? Maybe, but I can't be absolutely certain that seals the deal. I have been in bgs where the horde had four healers and alliance had none, just to still win without. Racials? Maybe, someone has the numbers to support that. I do not. Morale? Ahh, maybe! Rarely do I hear strategies discussed, or any constructive/informative communication on alliance side. I had to explain to this CAPS LOCKer in temple of kotmogu that merely keeping two orbs isn't a win if we don't take the middle for the higher points. Lack of alliance pvp guilds and abundance of horde pvp guilds? That would bolster morale in individual match ups if more alliance guildmates rolled together in bgs, but by itself might not be concrete enough. I offer no answers, just questions. I hear no dialogue with the developers as to address this problem, though I wish they would. I do hear horde players trying to remove the alliance's only two winning bg's, yet alliance can only blacklist two from the 9 we are less successful at.
  1. Isolyphic's Avatar
    Mastery needs bumped down to level 20. It's too heavily involved in classes nowadays which is breaking low level classes. It's extremely hard to tank with a Paladin at low level as they take alot of damage as block chance% and damage reduction from ShotR is not available. It was a rather painful experience to go through.
  1. getupkid55's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenny View Post
    lol, Every Man for Himself.
    Congrats on naming the only strong alliance PvP racial?
  1. Vyil's Avatar
    Horde need to get off their elitelist ego...
    I play both horde and alliance, i play since the ever start of WoW.

    People saying AV is unbalanced and theres never been anything done about it....? How about your spawn got a few yards closer?
    IoC...Alliance get the docks closer, Horde get the gunship. May i also remind, the glaives can be destroyed in 10 seconds by merely 3 rogues....?

    Now the fact people are judging "Horde" and " alliance" is discriminating to say the least, as without a doubt the best players play alliance (They are only a few though, check arena standings), and the most PvE oriented players (who are often worse in pvp) play horde.

    In my oppinion the reason behind the win/loss ratio is the newer players all pick alliance. I just notice when i play alliance, my team consists of players who reached lvl 90 in 2013 allot.
    However when i play on my horde, i notice players who got their achievements dated to 2008 (Achievement implented), wich basicly mean they are allot more experienced.
  1. Dristereau's Avatar
    Just thought I'd add my experience of the last hour or so doing Alliance Random BGs. I've won two daily wins (Shammy/Monk) and currently trying for a third (Paladin). Paladin is currently on an 8 loss streak and I lost 3 trying to get the two wins on the other two. Its not been fun in the slightest, because the Alliance is actively ignoring the objective. Alliance Healer ran off from WW Flag whilst Horde were there and left me and one other DPS to die. EotS people don't call inc to bases or when fight in Mid even fight where the Flag spawns so Horde can chain cap.

    Just had AV pop. Hope to Elune we win this. I despise playing the faction I currently do, and pride in it is nothing. I like Alliance races more, but a few minutes extra queing for a Win compared to an Hour or so trying to win one?

    Won, thank Elune for that.. Need to make a Horde Paladin..
  1. Torais's Avatar
    Alliance doesn't have an advantage in AV or IoC.
    As someone that has played Alliance for 5 years I can safely say you are either lying or delusional.
  1. Bawl's Avatar
    Even with some level of error in the record keeping those percentages are still pathetic. What'd you wanna bet if, or rather when, someone asks about them on the official forums that any blue responses will be the old fallback "our data is more accurate than yours" and "you cant see the whole picture" or some such nonsense?

    I agree that there are imbalances in the game design itself (maps, racials, the blacklist, etc), but my guess is that most of it stems from what could be called social issues. Things along the lines of PVPers tending to favor horde (as it is perceived as more war-like or whatever), defeatist attitudes, and others.

    Regardless of the reason though I wholly place the blame on the devs. Their battleground design philosophy hasn't changed to any great degree since battlegrounds were first introduced, at a time when they were little more than a fun distraction. Take pretty much any other game with team based PVP these days and it's immediately obvious how outdated their design is.
  1. Torais's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by getupkid55 View Post
    Congrats on naming the only strong alliance PvP racial?
    Thanks to race changes, why do you need more then one?
  1. Trafalgarlaw's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Torais View Post
    As someone that has played Alliance for 5 years I can safely say you are either lying or delusional.
    Several easily defended chokepoints arent considered an advantage to buttonmashing FOTM rerolling plebs.
  1. Eldrad's Avatar
    Isle of Conquest, on paper, is the coolest BG in the game. You have seige engines of different strengths and weaknesses, air bombardment, paratroopers, tower defenses, bombs, resources...
    But when played it just turns into crap. It's really a shame. This BG could amazing
  1. Meil's Avatar
    As an achievement hunter, they really need to do something about AV and IoC. I want to like IoC, because I love that siege-style warfare, but it's just awful now(and yes, there is always Wintergrasp, but most people seem to avoid it anymore).
  1. Minginging's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by getupkid55 View Post
    Congrats on naming the only strong alliance PvP racial?
    It's worth mentioning because humans are the most popular race by a fair margin(and I would consider it the best one for some classes).

    Anyways, I started leveling some hordies recently, mainly through PvP, and it has been a much more enjoyable experience than on my allies. If you can think of something to do while waiting in queues, it's completely worth switching to horde.
  1. Whiskra's Avatar
    From my old experience with Alliance in battlegrounds, most of them are of the mentality that they don't care at all about winning any BG's, only about getting as many PvP points as possible as fast as possible. If they have to fight an upphill battle, many simply give up and encourage others to do the same.
  1. AndreiBD's Avatar
    horde is more pvp active , has more and better pvp`ers. Leaving IoC and AV out of the discussion because their`re unbalanced, the percentage of horde wins is even higher from the start to late second half of every season. Alliance caches up on wins near the end of each season when horde players either gear up alts or just stop playing cause they have reached all their goals .
  1. kallekaka's Avatar
    Horde base vs. Alliance base

    Towers vs. Bunkers

    AV, the most unbalanced BG ever.
  1. Ryken's Avatar
    Its really important to note the bias on both sides. To the people crying out about how AV and IoC favours alliance because of the map design, you have to realize that the problem is greatly noticeable because AV and IoC are blacklisted more than any other BG by the horde, to the point where queue times for AV and IoC are equal for horde and alliance, which cannot be said about any other BG. Also the size of AV and IoC are 4 times than others player-wise, which is statistically important because the way the data is gathered. For every bg win/loss, there are 80 entries statistically, and when combined with the fact that most other horde blacklist AV/IoC, you're looking at a bg where there are more horde queuing for it to AFK for the little honor gains. Faster queues for this bgs, more people fitting in them, more cycles, = more AFK honor and therefore more AFKers, which contributes more to the loss ratio for horde than any other bgs.

    Combine all these statistically relevant things, the win/loss ratio on IoC and AV is no where near as telling as the whole story.

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