Balance on Legendary Drops, Zakarum, Paladins, Templars and Crusaders, Are Numbers Too Large in RoS

Armory Stats - Battleground Win Ratios
Today we are taking a look at the win percentage for each faction and battleground that took place in the last month. To find these numbers, we compared the number of battles and victories a character had in a December snapshot of data to a January snapshot of data.

These numbers come from a character's statistics pane, so any bugs with character statistics will have skewed the results. This means that there isn't any way for us to verify how accurate these numbers are, so do not take them as fact.

Percentages came fairly close to 100% in most cases, so we normalized the data to 100%. Unfortunately it seems that most Eye of the Storm wins are still not recorded in your statistics most of the time. This bug has been around for five or more years now, but we normalized the data we had (~7.9% and ~9.8% win ratios for each faction) for the chart.

The data used today is a sample made up of ~7 million level 90 characters and ~7 million battles. The sample is slightly biased, as players who are not in a guild are less likely to appear in our sample.

You can see the data from the last time we did this back in 2011, which shows a slightly different picture.

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Upcoming Siege of Orgrimmar Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
I agree. I also am not sure why removing the trivial healing mechanic from Sigecrafter is even...worth it. Most guilds are 4 healing this encounter to kill it, now it's definitely going to be a 4 heal fight. Directly after your tuned for 6-8 fight, Thok. ???
Raid groups are largely making steady progress, but as I said, there are exceptions. Regarding Heroic difficulty in particular, it's pretty obvious that there is a very large jump in difficulty from Thok to Siegecrafter. Siegecrafter/Paragons/Garrosh are currently very close to equal in difficulty, with each presenting different challenges and guilds taking roughly the same number of attempts to defeat each. We'd rather see an upward slope in difficulty, which leaves guilds feeling like the next step is within reach given enough time and dedication, rather than a sudden jump up to a much higher difficulty plateau. That's why we're nerfing Heroic Blackfuse moderately, Paragons just a little bit, and Garrosh not at all.

The changes shouldn't be enough to meaningfully alter healer composition, but they will make some of those "combo" deaths to two damage sources overlapping a bit less likely.

I'm certain that guilds who have already defeated these encounters or who are on the verge of doing so will find that the adjustments make a big difference, but remember, that's because you've already refined a working strategy and have practiced the execution. Guilds coming into the fights for the first time will still need to handle the precise movement associated with the different Blackfuse phases, belt teams will have to learn to navigate the belt lasers consistently, and so forth. Both Blackfuse and Paragons will remain quite challenging. And then there's always Garrosh....

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
I've been asking to allow us to make uncorrupted orcs for a while. Any chance of that happening???
can't definitively say yes, but it's likely that will be an option in some way. It would be cool to see UO PC in Azeroth (Source)

Would it really be that difficult to update the goblin/worgen models? You guys surely still have the original LoDs, right?
I'd like to at some point, they still use our original rigging/animation system. Pandaren introduced new system. (Source)

Character / Items
Will [Ai-Li's Skymirror] ever be allowed to copy one's character illusion again? Ex: Grasp from Pre-ZF? An updated WoD version?
Those are fun, but we don't want it to become annoying, and that opens up too many possibilities. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor Stats
Will Disc at least be fixed to do double healing from a multistrike crit. Else it is 100% useless stat for Disc.
I think you may misunderstand something. Crits don't do doublehealing for Disc, as a rule. But how does that make MS useless? (Source)
Sorry, said that backwards, when a spell crit as Disc procs MS, the MS is just as powerful as non-crit, makes it feel weak
You're misunderstanding Multistrike. The healing of the hit that triggered multistrike doesn't matter. Separate healing roll. (Source)
And an MS that crits would trigger Divine Aegis. (Source)

I keep seeing promises that the item squish won't affect soloing capabilities, but is this for all characters or only level 90s?
All. (Source)
That is to say; the squish won't affect soloing capabilities, but other changes may. Soloing at low levels isn't a balance focus. (Source)

Does this mean that we'll start seeing the new stats (possibly mastery even) on gear at very low levels?
Mastery is staying lvl80+. New stats are still being determined, but most likely not available from level 1. (Source)

I hope this wouldn't replace Warstomp. I know it's not the best for PvE DPS but great for questing/soloing as a caster druid.
No, we wouldn't replace Warstomp. (Source)

That is good news! Are you planning to increase base resilience with the new season?
Yes (Source)

How big in game scale wise is Ashran? Like are we talking AV big or Wintergrasp big
From base to base is similar to AV but it's wider. (Source)
Would you say Ashran is a spiritual successor to AV? Or more like Timeless Isle?
More like AV (Source)

back to gear being the major determining factor in PvP success. Guess the accessibility experiment didn't work out?
I don't really see how you came to that conclusion. (Source)
dialing back resilience "as much as possible" says bursty PvP and emphasizes PvP power. Sounds like old times 2 me.
In WoD, health pools will be relatively larger and PvP Power is being redefined. It will end up less bursty. (Source)
Is this true for low lvl PvP too? Some spells are too potent in heirloom gear. Aimed Shot and Shield Slam can *literally* one-shot.
A lot of spells have base damage which leads to this issue. We're going through these spells to reduce the base damage. (Source)

so I was wondering if you guys could start doing realm rankings/leaders instead of region? A lot of friends and I are curious.
We've gotten the request a lot so we'll have to look into it. (Source)
"Instead"? Why not "in addition to"?
Certainly what I meant (Source)

It also feels lousy to work hard to acquire full grievous gear only to be killed by a dragon slayer in heroic pve gear
Yup, we've mentioned we don't want to end up in this situation again. (Source)
but I give you credit in admiting that what occurred was not what you intended.
Certain systems (like warforged and upgrades) that inflate ilevels didn't make much sense for PvP. (Source)
PvP not having them meant gear falling further behind. (Source)

I've already given you a good solution. Nerf dmg/healing by 65/55% and roll those numbers into a raid wide buff for players who pve
It isn't a good solution for the same reasons base resilience and battle fatigue aren't good solutions. (Source)
The entire reason why you needed BF/Resil is because abilities do too much damage/healing.
It's lousy to have a spell hit for 100k against a creature and 20k against a player no matter where you increase/decrease it. (Source)

as horde I frequently spend more time in random BG queue then in the actual games. Fix it please. Faction conflict !> fast queues
I wish it could be fixed quickly. I really do. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor
Didnt know where to ask. Blizzcon mention quest items gone from bank in WoD. Will my [Amulet of Draconic Subversion] disappear?
Don't know yet. Could be considered a Toy, perhaps. If you still have the quest, may be kept. Very up in the air, know important (Source)

Dark Legacy Comics - #424
DLC #424 has been released!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Battleground Win Ratios, Upcoming SoO Changes Feedback, Blue Tweets, DLC #424 started by chaud View original post
Comments 219 Comments
  1. Goondicker's Avatar
    Actually it seems there is a larger gap in percentages now than the previous graphs you guys linked. It's just that the scale is shown differently.
  1. Sevyvia's Avatar
    It's actually funny watching Hordies clamor desperately for "balance" in the two BGs they don't win. Of course, "balance" here means "Make me win, Blizz. plz."

    If you had your balance, your queues would explode within half a year. Alliance would stop queuing, because it'd just be one more in-game representation of Blizzard's admitted Horde bias. You've got the best racials, and have had them for ages now. In a game as homogenized as WoW, it's only natural that even advantage as small as racials are a pull towards playing Horde. Remove or balance racials much more closely, and then sure, we can look at actual balance in IoC/AV. Not your balance, of course. Actual balance.

    I don't get why it matters, though. You can blacklist the two battlegrounds that you aren't at an advantage in, so why does "balancing" them matter to you? I can't (And wouldn't, if I could. I'm not a child) blacklist the 9 BGs I'm at a disadvantage in.
  1. tiporispit's Avatar
    There's no imbalance in AV. I played Alliance for the first few years and they zerg. Period. Every single time. I switched to Horde a few years ago, and every match begins with 40 players arguing over what to do. There's always 20 clowns saying "zerg doesn't work", as the Alliance team zergs and wins. It's like half the Horde players are retarded or something.
  1. Nerraw's Avatar
    I could have told you that. This is one of the reasons why I decided to quit until the expansion. It simply is impossible to get anywhere in casual PvP as Alliance.
  1. ApeDosMil's Avatar
    I went through some crazy number crunches to illustrate why the horde's average 59.13% win rate after blacklisting AV/IoC vs. the alliance's win rate of 51.52% win rate with AV/IoC not blacklisted and SotA and SSM blacklisted instead (seeing as they are our worst losses as alliance) and I'm sickened. IF (pay attention to that word) you just get conquest only from random bgs based off of those blacklists, it would take the average alliance player 94.5 more minutes a week to cap, not including queue times. Getting a full conquest set would take an alliance player 20.58 more hours (or 1234.94 minutes) a season. If you really believe that gap is acceptable, you are delusional.
  1. Darksoldierr's Avatar
    SotA and IoC need to be entirely redesigned or removed, i have them blacklisted since blacklisting was introduced... Wotlk had terrible bgs
  1. Sillicis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    And why is that exactly?

    I can't expect to clear normal raids with PVP gear, why should we let PVE'ers do "normal" BGs with their gear?
    Ban PvP'ers from LFD, LFR, worldbosses and everything then. Why should we let pvp'ers do Pve content with pvp gear.
    random bg's are the Looking for Group of PvP. If you care that much about some people not being at their skillcap, or people being at the top of their game in pve gear. Go do rated bg's. Compare those to 'normal raids' as you put it
  1. Couac's Avatar
    To all the Alliance players who complain about Horde players who complain about imbalance in AV and IoC: Do you really think it's fair that you have two dead sure wins and therefore get loads of honor basically for free every time you enter them? Sure, Horde may slightly dominate other bgs, but results fall within error margin in almost all of them and the chance of winning is more or less 50-50, not 90-10.
  1. Yakshamash's Avatar
    Horde PVPers... Cry more... Want bottle of milk with pacifier, too?
  1. Khwaj's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Couac View Post
    To all the Alliance players who complain about Horde players who complain about imbalance in AV and IoC: Do you really think it's fair that you have two dead sure wins and therefore get loads of honor basically for free every time you enter them? Sure, Horde may slightly dominate other bgs, but results fall within error margin in almost all of them and the chance of winning is more or less 50-50, not 90-10.
    take in the result of all bgs the result is very slightly in hordes favour, but its practiaclly 50/50 (~52/48 horde advantage)
    with out those 2, its ~ 60/40 horde advantage

    so it takes the high amount of wins from those 2 bgs alone to make it even for the other 9

    i would gladly take the longer rand q times for a greater chance of winning the other 9 and im sure many alliance would too instead of relying on 2 bgs
  1. Airbag888's Avatar
    This is my personal experience from the Vanilla days.

    On Arthas-US, Horde won probably 90% of bgs. When AV changed to become closer to what it is now, we lost it 90% of the time.

    I really despise blizz allowing faction change because the day that happened all Alliance wanna-bes changed to horde to 'win more' and be more 'badass', all they did was pollute the pvp player base and make queues longer.
  1. Ettan's Avatar
    Av is imbalanced it has always been so.
    If both teams rush flawlessly; alliance team will always win.
    With towers you get knockoffs, for bunkers that can be prevented.
    Tower/bunker placement is also more benefical for the alliance side, the first bunker is placed off to the side.
    While all towers are placed directly on the fastest route up.
    Towers are also "easier" to cap, theres only one mob that has to die and it is easier losed.
    With the bunkers, theres 2 mobs that has to go down and these are harder to los (far from impossible, there is a sweet spot but your average player will not use this).

    The bridge is also a way better choke point than what the horde have. Ranged can really dominate that bridge, on the horde side it is simple to rush that narrow corridor when you have walls to los behind.
    Still a fun bg, if anything should be done; make it slower / impossiburu to rush.
  1. Delekii's Avatar
    I can't help but laugh at every person who was "surprised" by this "news".
  1. Ryme's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillah View Post
    Wonder why alliance only wins the two 40 mans. We knew AV was biased, but why IoC now?
    Faster access to glaives, which are superior base busters for casual groups/pugs.
  1. otszx's Avatar
    that moment when you have IoC and AV blacklisted as alliance, and lose almost every bg
  1. Ryme's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Khwaj View Post
    lol, giving reason why IoC/AV should change/remove with your left hand while trying to deny the underlying reason is you want the advantage in ALL bgs with your right hand
    its not like alliance can black list the other 9 bgs

    alliance - 2 bgs
    horde - 9 bgs
    The other bgs are mirrors of each other and temple is just a brawl fight - it may just be that Horde are, in general, better pvpers than Alliance. The statistics clearly show this.
  1. Khwaj's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    The other bgs are mirrors of each other and temple is just a brawl fight - it may just be that Horde are, in general, better pvpers than Alliance. The statistics clearly show this.
    i agree, so let us have those 2 while u have the rest

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Faster access to glaives, which are superior base busters for casual groups/pugs.
    for crying out loud plzzzzz stop using this as an excuse
    all it takes is 2 ppl out of 40 to kill both glaives, 1 if ur exceptionally skilled, they only have 1.2mill hp, thats pretty weak as it is

    same can be said abt av, i havnt been to drek in ages as i always go with 3-4 ppl including myself to back cap towers
    80% of the time there is only 1-2, 3 tops defending the towers
    the times i lost av is when horde have like 5-7 players back capping and wipe us out and our tower defenders
  1. Eats Compost's Avatar
    If those statistics are even remotely indicative of what's actually happening, then Blizzard REALLY needs to get on that. No faction should be dipping below a 45% win rate in any BG, and those AV/IoC stats are beyond ridiculous. The only one there that's in an acceptable range is Warsong Gulch, and one out of eleven is NOT good.
  1. Freegels's Avatar
    Sum all horde wins from the 11 bgs - 569,1
    Ally - 530,9

    1100 is for 100
    569,1 is for x

    x= 51,7363
    Overall horde wins on 51,73% of all BGs that's not a big w/l ratio
    Though i'm assuming all BGs are played the same amount, which we know is not true
  1. Dewote's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rekx View Post
    who would have thought AV favors alliance.. o right. people have been saying that since its release but nah.. lets NEVER fix AV.
    AV favored horde in the beginning. Then they moved horde entrance in patch 2.4 further away and it has been this way since then.

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