Battleground Win Ratios, Upcoming SoO Changes Feedback, Blue Tweets, DLC #424

Balance on Legendary Drops, Zakarum, Paladins, Templars and Crusaders, Are Numbers Too Large in RoS

Armory Stats - Battleground Win Ratios
Today we are taking a look at the win percentage for each faction and battleground that took place in the last month. To find these numbers, we compared the number of battles and victories a character had in a December snapshot of data to a January snapshot of data.

These numbers come from a character's statistics pane, so any bugs with character statistics will have skewed the results. This means that there isn't any way for us to verify how accurate these numbers are, so do not take them as fact.

Percentages came fairly close to 100% in most cases, so we normalized the data to 100%. Unfortunately it seems that most Eye of the Storm wins are still not recorded in your statistics most of the time. This bug has been around for five or more years now, but we normalized the data we had (~7.9% and ~9.8% win ratios for each faction) for the chart.

The data used today is a sample made up of ~7 million level 90 characters and ~7 million battles. The sample is slightly biased, as players who are not in a guild are less likely to appear in our sample.

You can see the data from the last time we did this back in 2011, which shows a slightly different picture.

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Upcoming Siege of Orgrimmar Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
I agree. I also am not sure why removing the trivial healing mechanic from Sigecrafter is even...worth it. Most guilds are 4 healing this encounter to kill it, now it's definitely going to be a 4 heal fight. Directly after your tuned for 6-8 fight, Thok. ???
Raid groups are largely making steady progress, but as I said, there are exceptions. Regarding Heroic difficulty in particular, it's pretty obvious that there is a very large jump in difficulty from Thok to Siegecrafter. Siegecrafter/Paragons/Garrosh are currently very close to equal in difficulty, with each presenting different challenges and guilds taking roughly the same number of attempts to defeat each. We'd rather see an upward slope in difficulty, which leaves guilds feeling like the next step is within reach given enough time and dedication, rather than a sudden jump up to a much higher difficulty plateau. That's why we're nerfing Heroic Blackfuse moderately, Paragons just a little bit, and Garrosh not at all.

The changes shouldn't be enough to meaningfully alter healer composition, but they will make some of those "combo" deaths to two damage sources overlapping a bit less likely.

I'm certain that guilds who have already defeated these encounters or who are on the verge of doing so will find that the adjustments make a big difference, but remember, that's because you've already refined a working strategy and have practiced the execution. Guilds coming into the fights for the first time will still need to handle the precise movement associated with the different Blackfuse phases, belt teams will have to learn to navigate the belt lasers consistently, and so forth. Both Blackfuse and Paragons will remain quite challenging. And then there's always Garrosh....

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Art
I've been asking to allow us to make uncorrupted orcs for a while. Any chance of that happening???
can't definitively say yes, but it's likely that will be an option in some way. It would be cool to see UO PC in Azeroth (Source)

Would it really be that difficult to update the goblin/worgen models? You guys surely still have the original LoDs, right?
I'd like to at some point, they still use our original rigging/animation system. Pandaren introduced new system. (Source)

Character / Items
Will [Ai-Li's Skymirror] ever be allowed to copy one's character illusion again? Ex: Grasp from Pre-ZF? An updated WoD version?
Those are fun, but we don't want it to become annoying, and that opens up too many possibilities. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor Stats
Will Disc at least be fixed to do double healing from a multistrike crit. Else it is 100% useless stat for Disc.
I think you may misunderstand something. Crits don't do doublehealing for Disc, as a rule. But how does that make MS useless? (Source)
Sorry, said that backwards, when a spell crit as Disc procs MS, the MS is just as powerful as non-crit, makes it feel weak
You're misunderstanding Multistrike. The healing of the hit that triggered multistrike doesn't matter. Separate healing roll. (Source)
And an MS that crits would trigger Divine Aegis. (Source)

I keep seeing promises that the item squish won't affect soloing capabilities, but is this for all characters or only level 90s?
All. (Source)
That is to say; the squish won't affect soloing capabilities, but other changes may. Soloing at low levels isn't a balance focus. (Source)

Does this mean that we'll start seeing the new stats (possibly mastery even) on gear at very low levels?
Mastery is staying lvl80+. New stats are still being determined, but most likely not available from level 1. (Source)

PvE
I hope this wouldn't replace Warstomp. I know it's not the best for PvE DPS but great for questing/soloing as a caster druid.
No, we wouldn't replace Warstomp. (Source)

PvP
That is good news! Are you planning to increase base resilience with the new season?
Yes (Source)

How big in game scale wise is Ashran? Like are we talking AV big or Wintergrasp big
From base to base is similar to AV but it's wider. (Source)
Would you say Ashran is a spiritual successor to AV? Or more like Timeless Isle?
More like AV (Source)

back to gear being the major determining factor in PvP success. Guess the accessibility experiment didn't work out?
I don't really see how you came to that conclusion. (Source)
dialing back resilience "as much as possible" says bursty PvP and emphasizes PvP power. Sounds like old times 2 me.
In WoD, health pools will be relatively larger and PvP Power is being redefined. It will end up less bursty. (Source)
Is this true for low lvl PvP too? Some spells are too potent in heirloom gear. Aimed Shot and Shield Slam can *literally* one-shot.
A lot of spells have base damage which leads to this issue. We're going through these spells to reduce the base damage. (Source)

so I was wondering if you guys could start doing realm rankings/leaders instead of region? A lot of friends and I are curious.
We've gotten the request a lot so we'll have to look into it. (Source)
"Instead"? Why not "in addition to"?
Certainly what I meant (Source)

It also feels lousy to work hard to acquire full grievous gear only to be killed by a dragon slayer in heroic pve gear
Yup, we've mentioned we don't want to end up in this situation again. (Source)
but I give you credit in admiting that what occurred was not what you intended.
Certain systems (like warforged and upgrades) that inflate ilevels didn't make much sense for PvP. (Source)
PvP not having them meant gear falling further behind. (Source)

I've already given you a good solution. Nerf dmg/healing by 65/55% and roll those numbers into a raid wide buff for players who pve
It isn't a good solution for the same reasons base resilience and battle fatigue aren't good solutions. (Source)
The entire reason why you needed BF/Resil is because abilities do too much damage/healing.
It's lousy to have a spell hit for 100k against a creature and 20k against a player no matter where you increase/decrease it. (Source)

as horde I frequently spend more time in random BG queue then in the actual games. Fix it please. Faction conflict !> fast queues
I wish it could be fixed quickly. I really do. (Source)

Warlords of Draenor
Didnt know where to ask. Blizzcon mention quest items gone from bank in WoD. Will my [Amulet of Draconic Subversion] disappear?
Don't know yet. Could be considered a Toy, perhaps. If you still have the quest, may be kept. Very up in the air, know important (Source)

Dark Legacy Comics - #424
DLC #424 has been released!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Battleground Win Ratios, Upcoming SoO Changes Feedback, Blue Tweets, DLC #424 started by chaud View original post
Published on 2014-01-20 01:58 AM
219 Comments
Comments 218 Comments
  1. Freegels's Avatar
    Also it's fun how alliance keeps acting like they NEVER win the other 9 bgs, they do, just a bit less often than horde
    And also fun how Horde acts like they can't bl IOC/AV and be happy orcs raping alliance elsewhere.
  1. Zephinism's Avatar
    I would like to remove Isle of Conquest from my Blacklist as a Horde player so I can get the meta and get the khan title, but it'll never happen.

    Blizzard needs to ban bots, nerf the heck out of glaive damage severely or move docks flag
  1. Sarevokcz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ApeDosMil View Post
    I went through some crazy number crunches to illustrate why the horde's average 59.13% win rate after blacklisting AV/IoC vs. the alliance's win rate of 51.52% win rate with AV/IoC not blacklisted and SotA and SSM blacklisted instead (seeing as they are our worst losses as alliance) and I'm sickened. IF (pay attention to that word) you just get conquest only from random bgs based off of those blacklists, it would take the average alliance player 94.5 more minutes a week to cap, not including queue times. Getting a full conquest set would take an alliance player 20.58 more hours (or 1234.94 minutes) a season. If you really believe that gap is acceptable, you are delusional.
    horde spends those 20 hours in queue...
  1. Holymoocow's Avatar
    AV favored for allys, been for while and allys whine about horde starting spot.
    Bl av/IoC is good idea if ya horde becease both bgs are broken been for while.
  1. Sarevokcz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dewote View Post
    Wrong.
    AV favored horde in the beginning. Then they moved horde entrance in patch 2.4 further away and it has been this way since then.
    it never favored horde. horde had faster bel, alliance had everything else, chokepoints, better towers etc. now alliance has everything.

    in the end, horde has the same right to complain about broken BGs as alliance does about racials. But to be honest, if even symetric BGs like kotmogu are dominated by horde by pretty big margin, its hardly only about racials.
  1. Olena's Avatar
    Why all horde players are complaining about AV? They have advantages in almost all other BG's but no, it's not enough ?

    I'm playing for the Alliance and my win/lose ratio is about 90% of wins (and yes, I've banned all 40 ppl BG's because of long queues there, so it's not from AV or IoC). It's all about people you going with - how many bots on each side or how many not geared players there is. I guess, I'm lucky to see decent players in my team quite often.
  1. mmoc0fec037461's Avatar
    I can't be bothered to go through all this butthurt here, is this data US only, or both US and EU?
  1. Igzorn's Avatar
    pvp died for me about that time arenas were put in the game (bc)i mean befor that nobody needet recilence or pvp power. and i was there i got my knight titel with my hunter
  1. FatCheeseMan's Avatar
    I strongly feel like alliance numbers are too high. Have not managed to get my first win of the day all week. Granted I only do about 5 bgs a day.
  1. Gokule00's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbath234543 View Post
    They need to remove IOC from the game, and remove AV from Q to make it like vanilla AV with Hour(s) long battles, dailies, objectives and mini bosses, AND make the dailies, boss and player kills give honor. In one fail swoop you get rid of the whole reason Horde dont Q AV and IOC, BOTS.
    "Fail Swoop" made me laugh, not sure if it was intentional or not xD
  1. MasterHamster's Avatar
    Absolutely no one with a clue is surprised about AV.

    And apologists are essentially saying that it'd be balanced if one faction started doing proper teamwork in order to defend against the mindless zerg that win regardless.
    The layout of AV doesn't support these 10 minute games. Horde towers, respawn, placement are all ideal for the Alliance.

    Sad, considering I loved that BG before Blizzard did the third or fourth horde-specific nerf.
    Tho I suppose no one even remembers that anymore.
  1. mmoc61f52dddc1's Avatar
    It's just a matter of self-fullfilling prophecy. Horde joins AV or IoC and starts with the feeling of beeing destroyed in minutes. Alliance in many other BGs. No wonder when that happens. My Alliance Main played some 3k BGs and won some 2,2k. Of course as healer and mostly not in a group. I never understood why Alliance is complaing so much. If Horde would start to defend their stupid towers in AV or just ignore the workshop in IoC things would change. But no, they insist to play their strange tactics.
  1. Rhelyo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Levit View Post
    Ok, so Arathi Basin= Horde 60% to Alli 40%(20% losing ratio not good or even close to your 50%) Warsong Gulch=47.4% Alli to 52.6 Horde ( The only one close to your so call dream ratio. still almost a 6% discrepancy) EOS= Alli 44% to horde 55%( 10% no even close). SOTA= 34%Alli to Horde 68%(That's 30% not even close) TP= 42% Alliance 57% to horde (12% not close.) BFG= 42% to Alli 57% horde ( 12% diff) ToK= 41% Alli to 58% Horde(17% diff) SM= 35% Alli to 64% horde( 30% diff again) DG= 42% Alli to 57% horde ( 15% diff.)

    So I say again we only have 2 BGs as ally and you still complain and moan that they should be taken away. didn't they ever tell you you being greedy is bad.
    That is wrong dude.Lets see how your statistics are at 50/50 w/l for both factions.
    AB-H60% vs A40% (that is 10% in favor of horde to the mark of 50/50 that the ideal w/l should be for both factions),i dont know where u pull the 20% crap
    WG-H47,4% vs A52,6 (that is a 2,6% in favor of Alliance) not that big deal (u called that 6% remember ideal w/l should be 50%-50% for both factons
    EotS-A44,4% vs H 55,6% (5,4% in favor of Horde)
    Strand-A31,7% vs H68,3% (18,3% in favor of Horde)
    AV-A78,2% vs H21,8% ( 28,2% in favor of Alliance)
    IoC-A84,9% vs H15,1% (34,9% in favor of Alliance)
    Twin Peaks-A42,7% vs H57,3%(7,3% in favor to Horde)
    BfG-A42,1% vs H57,9%( 7,9% in favor to horde)
    ToK-A41,9% vs H58,1% (8,1% in favor to horde)
    Silvershard mines-A35,5% vs H64,5% (14,5% in favor to horde)
    Deepwind-A42,1% vs H57,9% (7,9% in favor to horde)

    Now if you look at all statistics it is true that horde win ratio is better than alliance on most bgs,but u have to admit that the difference in w/l is not that great.I mean come on in 10 games played on many of those bgs alliance wins 4 and horde wins 6 (w/l <10%)
    It's true that Strand 18,3% and silvershard 14,5% which favors the horde are a bit high and they should take a look at them(but its mostly player skill and such).
    Now take a look at AV/IoC (28,2% and 34,9%).Don't you see something wrong there?
    My point in all this is that most bgs that people say its horde dominated,the w/l ratio between both factions are <10% and are close to the 50/50.But IoC and AV w/l ratio is too overwhelming.

    If i were to blame anyone i would probably blame the hk premades which are made especially by the russian servers.
  1. Darksoldierr's Avatar
    Why does Strand favors Horde that much? Silvershard i can understand, that map is not balanced, but Strand?
  1. illumnat's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminoth4 View Post
    In AV, if the Horde defends at Galv, they usually win. Otherwise the Alliance wins usually due to Zerg.
    <snip>
    Regarding AV, I do consider it biased. If players listen and DKs/Paladins rush FW Towers, Alliance can be still killing Galv whilst FW are being capped. On the other hand, I consider SSM to be Horde biased due to ease of access to both Lava and Mid Carts.
    <snip>

    If Horde were to defend AV, you would see a different result in that BG. Gear and Healers in smaller BGs are much more important than in the 40 Man PVE Raids (AV/IoC). Looking at BGTargets, you can often tell which team will win based on HP and Healers.

    These are my Personal opinions. I've recorded the last 100 BGs I played (4th Jan - 18th Jan) and will hopefully post the results of my experiences soon, when I organize them.
    The problem with Horde and AV is that players think it's a zerg race to the boss. However, the map isn't designed that way.

    In order for Horde to win, they need to play a defensive game and therein lies the problem. Playing AV defensively means a match that lasts a good 10-15 minutes longer for Horde to win. Unfortunately, that leaves us with two problems... 1) the "OMG my honor-per-hour" crowd would rather lose AV quickly than play to win and 2) new players think that you have to "race to the boss" to win. With these two factors, many Horde who like to play to win end up blacklisting AV.

    I know that Horde can win AV. I regularly run with an AV premade group... we play defensively and we win... even if we have only 15 people in the match, we win. We let the pugs push offensively while we back-cap and defend our base.

    Speaking of which... in AV pugs, you seldom see Horde back-capping while Alliance regularly sends 5+ to recap their bunkers.

    Yep... Horde has to play defensively to win AV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by godgunner View Post
    doesnt the graph show that on mirrored maps that the side that is better (gear/skill/teamwork) at pvp seems to win more and that on non mirrored maps the side with the map advantage will win more
    because the design so favors one side enough to be able to overcome the skill/gear/teamwork factors.

    graph says horde is wining most BG but most BG are mirrored so that means its a gear/skill/teamwork win. But on maps where its not mirrored one side or the other (which ever the map favors)
    steam rolls most of the time. (non mirrored maps are just bad design)
    Non-mirrored maps are fine. Players who don't understand the strats needed to play those BGs are what's wrong.

    Horde does fine in AV if they play defensively. Horde does fine in IoC if they take docks/kill glaives.

    **BUT** 99% of the time (ok about 80% of the time according to the graphs), Horde does neither so they lose.
  1. Fahrenheit's Avatar
    I'm genuinely curious as to the reasoning why Horde win more overall games. With such a large sample size I don't think it's possible to be something like player skill.

    My (granted) anecdotal evidence suggests that the same players that make up one faction are the same caliber of players that make up the other faction, especially now, 9 years into the game's life.

    I will say this though, I've been PvPing the same spec/class combo (Feral Druid) for nearly 9 years now and I've always managed to win (approx. 56% winning percentage) more than I lose with the exception of current WoW, all done while solo queuing my way to "Battlemaster", "Justicar", "of the Alliance", and now I nearly have "Khan" done.
  1. FenrisUy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
    60/40 isn't a bad ratio at all (although the fact that it favors the Horde more often than not is odd). Blizzard would be the most amazing designers/developers EVER if they managed to pull off a consistent 50/50 (that's not realistic though).

    The 3 BGs that need to be looked at/rebalanced are obviously Alterac Valley, Isle of Conquest, and Strands of the Ancient. That large of a disparity shouldn't be acceptable.
    Strands is the perfect mirror BG, if they are not winning the same as Horde is not by design.
  1. mmoc4b5982cd2c's Avatar
    If u play in the Horde you must always have AV and IoC on the blacklist
  1. mmoc130c3465fa's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillah View Post
    Wonder why alliance only wins the two 40 mans. We knew AV was biased, but why IoC now?
    IMHO it's because AV & IoC are the only battlegrounds where you can win without fighting the other team, ie: both teams rush to ennemi base and do their stuff.
  1. mmoca20fa69a21's Avatar
    Some people here have a hard time understanding that the blacklist feature are only making the imbalance tendecies worse. If all racials were removed from the game, and there were no blacklist feature, the win ratioes except for in Silvershard Mine and AV would be a lot closer to 50/50. Twin Peaks and to a lesser degree AB are also a tiny bit in favour of Horde.

    These are the results from a couple of years ago: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...p-of-the-Month

    And as you see the results are a lot closer to 50/50. Even with favourable Horde racials.
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