Lords of War: Part Two - Grommash

For those who don't get it, this is before Rise of the Horde. These episodes apply to both Universes.

https://twitter.com/MickyNeilson/sta...12918566809600

Originally Posted by Daws

So two episodes where the Ogres are pegged as some form of evil overlords who have brutalised the orcs. I thought lore was that ogres where slaves to the gronn and where aided by the orcs in opposing them, so retcon or did I miss something?

yeah in Rise of the Horde and any story that took place on Draenor always showed Ogres as more wild monsters without any intellect. They were minions of the Gronn, but since more than 5 years have passed, Blizzard thinks most of its fanbase is stupid and forgets these little details and retcons it in the name of "BADASS".

Also Gronn are now weaklings in WoD

Originally Posted by Immitis

garrosh wasnt exactly a baby when the orcs drank the demon blood, he was just sick.

Yes he wasn't a baby but he was still quite young at that time considering he's not that much older than Thrall atm and the events that occurred in the video would have happened a few years prior to the Orc Warchiefs uniting.

Originally Posted by Trollhammer

Different universe.. Not hard to get.. That is why Kairoz said this universe is perfect..

Irregardless of the alternate universe being perfect, I'm talking about how in this LoW video Maraad is talking about Grommash from our universe so it doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by shoc

In the original timeline, Garrosh was likely in his teens when his mother was killed.

But in the WoD timeline, Kairoz and Wrathion specifically went out of his way to ensure that he chose a timeline in which Garrosh was never born.

He can't have been in his teens considering he is not much older than Thrall is and Thrall was born around the time the demon blood was drunk. I'm specifically talking about how Garrosh even existed in our universe if according to Maraad his mother was killed close to the time he would have been born.

Originally Posted by Azahel

Garrosh was born before she died, obviously, but not on the alternative timeline. There's no Garrosh there.
I'm quite sure that such details became a legend that spread far and wide amongst the orcs, talking about how awesome grommash was and all that, I don't think it'd be hard for Maraad to know them. Pride is a strong thing you know, I can totally see Grom telling the story over and over, even to his enemies.

I'm really having no trouble with understanding why there's no alternate Garrosh due to him not being born. What I'm finding hard to believe is that they're trying to say Garrosh exists even though his mother would have been killed around the time he would have been born and their village was decimated and razed by Orges in our timeline. Also I find it unlikely that Grom would run around yelling at the Draenei about his wife's death whilst slaughtering them or even lecturing any possible Draenei prisoners (unlikely) about it. Grom: "And the moral of this story, blue skin, is not to leave your weak wife and warriors to be slaughtered by Ogres you raided." *Cleaves head*

Cool video but how does Maraad know all these things? In the story Grom kills his wife before Garrosh is born, but since Garrosh is alive in our timeline the story clearly takes place in an alternate timeline, but Maraad can't have experienced that timeline since in his timeline, i e ours, Garrosh is alive...

so many people that didn't read the Short story.

Cool to see the actual reason why grommash had a sore spot over golka's death other then just her dieing.

Also I didn't know ogres we're so well spoken? Dang...

Originally Posted by Shampro

so many people that didn't read the Short story.

The Short Story is about AU Grommash, this LoW is about MU Grommash and doesn't make sense as they said these events happened to AU Grom. They even specifically said that both universes have different histories so they're fucking it up by mixing them up.

Originally Posted by Darknessvamp

The Short Story is about AU Grommash, this LoW is about MU Grommash and doesn't make sense as they said these events happened to AU Grom. They even specifically said that both universes have different histories so they're fucking it up by mixing them up.

No https://twitter.com/MickyNeilson/sta...12918566809600

Originally Posted by gavlarn

Cool video but how does Maraad know all these things? In the story Grom kills his wife before Garrosh is born, but since Garrosh is alive in our timeline the story clearly takes place in an alternate timeline, but Maraad can't have experienced that timeline since in his timeline, i e ours, Garrosh is alive...

He doesn't kill her, that's the point. She wanted a warriors death, but he wouldn't give it to her, cause he thought she was weak.

Her death, this death right here, is in our timeline and WoD's. Garrosh was born before this in ours and wasn't born at all in their timeline. Garrosh knew some details of his mothers death, the only thing surprising was "His mate didn't give him a son before dying".

Also Maraad is a draenei with advance unknown tech. It's not hard to say that the draenei observed many of the battles and conflicts of the time.

it was very good episode...

Originally Posted by Darknessvamp

The Short Story is about AU Grommash, this LoW is about MU Grommash and doesn't make sense as they said these events happened to AU Grom. They even specifically said that both universes have different histories so they're fucking it up by mixing them up.

This is shared story. This timeline and ours only differs back maybe a decade at most, or else Butterfly Effect would make all these ppl none existent.

cause he thought she was weak

Don't know if Golka was weak, but the video is, for sure. Especially comparing to part one.

Originally Posted by Army Dreamer

Don't know if Golka was weak, but the video is, for sure. Especially comparing to part one.

I should rephrase that, she accepted death and he thought her weak for it.

I enjoyed it, but it was less interesting compared to the previous one about Bladefist.

Originally Posted by Shampro

No https://twitter.com/MickyNeilson/sta...12918566809600

You keep requoting a twitter response to a question about Kargath's LoW that's nearly a month old now. Considering Kargath's episode was close to the original Lore unlike Grommash's one it makes sense. However Grommash's LoW episode is a complete rehash of AU's Grommash's short story as to why he never had a child. This doesn't work for MU Grommash though if Garrosh does exist considering that Golka died around the time Garrosh would have been born in the MU which is what happened in the AU.

Originally Posted by MikeBogina

This is shared story. This timeline and ours only differs back maybe a decade at most, or else Butterfly Effect would make all these ppl none existent.

I really don't think Blizzard's Lore team took the Butterfly Effect into consideration when writing WoD what with all the major changes to AU Draenor's history. Even so these events can't have differed between by around a decade considering Garrosh's Birth and his Mother's death would have been only a few years before the uniting of the clans due to Garrosh's age now and it's relation to Thrall's age.

Originally Posted by Darknessvamp

You keep requoting a twitter response to a question about Kargath's LoW that's nearly a month old now. Considering Kargath's episode was close to the original Lore unlike Grommash's one it makes sense. However Grommash's LoW episode is a complete rehash of AU's Grommash's short story as to why he never had a child. This doesn't work for MU Grommash though if Garrosh does exist considering that Golka died around the time Garrosh would have been born in the MU which is what happened in the AU.

It's for both universes, the only differance is that Garrosh was born before the Ogre raid on ours, Garrosh even talks about it on the short story he knew of his mothers death. The differance here is that he was never born. You can keep dismissing the tweet for all I care, the questing asked was if these stories are for both universes, and he said correct. Period. They're exploreing the lore before Rise of the Horde is not hard to comprehend. You can dismiss it if you like, idc.

Btw for those who haven't played the beta, or followed it closely, the Ogres in WoD are based completely off the Roman Empire.

Originally Posted by Shampro

It's for both universes, the only differance is that Garrosh was born before the Ogre raid on ours, Garrosh even talks about it on the short story he knew of his mothers death. The differance here is that he was never born. You can keep dismissing the tweet for all I care, the questing asked was if these stories are for both universes, and he said correct. Period. They're exploreing the lore before Rise of the Horde is not hard to comprehend. You can dismiss it if you like, idc.

I understand him knowing about his mother's death if he was a few years old when it happened e.g. just before the uniting of the clans occurred but the way that the Short story and LoW episode tells it is that his Mother would have died around the same time he would have been born in both Universes which cannot be true if Garrosh exists in our universe. It is a straight up Lore mess up due to taking ideas from a new universe and trying to mix it with another universes history. Admittedly they could have straight up fixed the error by saying that Grom had a son but he was killed alongside his wife when the Orges attacked or instead making these LoW episodes about Maraad's questionable interrogation of Iron Horde troops captured from around the Dark Portal over their leaders which would also make sense as to why he speaks about the Warlords in such detail and grandeur when he would have been considered an enemy in the past and would also fit his dark, vengeful manner in this expansion.

I wonder if they intend to have the others out before pre-patch?

Originally Posted by Darknessvamp

You keep requoting a twitter response to a question about Kargath's LoW that's nearly a month old now. Considering Kargath's episode was close to the original Lore unlike Grommash's one it makes sense. However Grommash's LoW episode is a complete rehash of AU's Grommash's short story as to why he never had a child. This doesn't work for MU Grommash though if Garrosh does exist considering that Golka died around the time Garrosh would have been born in the MU which is what happened in the AU.



I really don't think Blizzard's Lore team took the Butterfly Effect into consideration when writing WoD what with all the major changes to AU Draenor's history. Even so these events can't have differed between by around a decade considering Garrosh's Birth and his Mother's death would have been only a few years before the uniting of the clans due to Garrosh's age now and it's relation to Thrall's age.

These videos are for both MU and AU because they take place before Garrosh went back in time. The only difference is that in MU Garrosh was born and in AU he wasn't. Also in the video Golka was killed while being on a raiding party. When the Orcs go hunting or raiding in the ogre lands only the warriors go and children and weak and old Orcs stay behind. After he left Golka there to die he went back to his people to get some to hunt the ogres down but when they arrived at the raid party they decided mourn over the dead.

Blizzard said on the WoD event that these videos tell the story before Rise of the Horde and it's the same story for both timelines because it pre-dates the arrival of Garrosh.