Patch 6.2 PTR Notes - April 17, New Monument, Blizzcon Tickets Saturday, Blue Posts

Trials will be removed in a future patch!

Blackrock Spire Heroic Boss Guides - Omokk, Drakkisath, Rend Blackhand

This Week's Hero Rotation, Heroes of the Dorm: Super 16 Wrap-Up

Patch 6.2 PTR Notes - April 17
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Timewalking
  • Timewalking will be available during select weekend holiday events and allows characters to queue up for a randomly selected old-school dungeon with a twist: your character’s power and gear scales down to the dungeon's level on Heroic difficulty. However, your character retains all of your skills and talents. Emerge victorious, and you will walk away with old loot that is scaled up to your character's level!
  • Additional rewards for Timewalking are still in-testing, such as a level 100 quest that rewards a Seal of Tempered Fate per weekend.
  • Over the coming weeks, Timewalking for the following dungeons will be available for testing on the PTR.
    • The following Burning Crusade dungeons are available for characters level 71 and up.
      • The Arcatraz
      • Black Morass
      • Mana-Tombs
      • The Shattered Halls
      • The Slave Pens
    • The following Wrath of the Lich King dungeons are available for characters level 81 and up.
      • Ahn’kahet: The Old Kingdom
      • Gundrak
      • Halls of Lightning
      • The Nexus
      • Utgarde Pinnacle

Raids and Dungeons
Challenge Mode
  • Challenger’s Strongbox obtained before Patch 6.2 will all become rusted. Rusted strongboxes can no longer be opened and may be sold to a vendor for 50 gold.

PvP
Ashran
  • New Area: Ashran Excavation and New Event: Apexis Marks
    • At certain times, spirits of fallen Arakkoa haunt the Ashran Excavation. Defeat them and bring proof of their demise to Rukmaz, the ghostly caretaker of the Apexis vault. First team to show Rulmaz 50 marks wins.
  • Reward Changes
    • Winning an event now awards Honor instead of Conquest.
    • Defeating Grand Marshal Tremblade or High Warlord Volrath no longer awards a Gleaming Ashmaul Strongbox.
    • New Weekly Quest: Slay them All!
      • Defeat 300 enemy players. Awards Conquest.
    • New Weekly Quest: Ashran Dominance
      • Win each event in Ashran and defeat the enemy faction leader. Awards Conquest and a Gleaming Ashmaul Strongbox.
    • New Repeatable Quest: Continue the Dominance
      • Win each event in Ashran and defeat the enemy faction leader. Awards Conquest.
  • General Ashran Changes
    • Players are now automatically placed in a raid when entering Ashran.

Professions
  • New Ranks for Warlords Crafted Items
    • Two new ranks of upgrades have been added to Warlords Crafted items, "Mighty" for rank 5 at item level 700, and "Savage" for rank 6 at item level 715.
    • Crafting the new upgrade items requires Felblood, a new reagent that can be obtained through the Barn.
    • The new recipes can be purchased from visiting Garrison traders.
  • Upgrade Item Consolidation
    • “Greater” rank 3 and “Powerful” rank 4 upgrade items have been consolidated together. A rank 2 upgrade item can now be used to upgrade a Warlords Crafted item to rank 4.
      • For example, Burnished Essence can now upgrade a rank 1 leatherworking item to rank 2, a rank 2 item to rank 3, or a rank 3 item to rank 4.
    • Rank 3 and 4 upgrade items can no longer be crafted and existing items have become unstable. These unstable items can be used to create the appropriate rank 2 upgrade item and refund the materials used to craft it.
  • Warlords Crafting Material Changes
    • Greatly increased the output of the following crafting materials created through a daily cooldown.
      • Alchemical Catalyst
      • Burnished Leather
      • Gearspring Parts
      • Hexweave Cloth
      • Taladite Crystal
      • Temporal Crystal
      • Truesteel Ingot
      • War Paints
      • Sorcerous Air
      • Sorcerous Earth
      • Sorcerous Fire
      • Sorcerous Water
      • Savage Blood
    • A number of recipes that use crafting materials created through a daily cooldown now requires less materials.

Jewelcrafting
  • Added a new Immaculate tier of gems of epic quality that provides +75 bonus to a given stat.
  • Players can unlock the ability to craft the new gems by completing a short questline that starts at an Arakkoa encampment as soon as they enter Tanaan Jungle.
  • After completing the questline, Jewelcrafters can craft Versatility gems. To unlock additional gem recipes, players must find or purchase Gemcutter Modules from various sources.
  • Jewelcrafters also have a chance to learn one of the new recipes each time the Gemcutting Construct crafts a gem.

Mage (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
General
  • Frostfire Bolt now deals 30% more damage.
Frost
  • Frostbolt now deals 30% more damage.

Paladin (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Holy
  • Holy Shock's mana cost has increased by 50%.

Shaman (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Armor Sets
  • PvP 2-piece set bonus for Elemental Shaman is now the PvP 4-piece set bonus and has been replaced. New PvP 2-piece set bonus: Reduces the cooldown of Hex by 15 seconds.
  • PvP 4-piece set bonus for Elemental Shaman has been replaced by the old PvP 2-piece set bonus. While Ascendance is active, the Shaman is immune to silence and interrupt effects.

Warlock (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Armor Sets
  • PvP 2-piece set bonus for Destruction Warlocks has been redesigned. Getting stunned, silenced, interrupted, or feared now generates 1 Burning Ember. Can only occur once every 15 seconds.

Patch 6.2 - Legendary Ring Monument
Patch 6.2 adds another monument to your garrison for completing the legendary ring quest.



Patch 6.2 - New Alliance Garrison Exit
Patch 6.2 adds a new exit to the Alliance garrison that heads down to the new ship yard.



Blizzcon 2015 Tickets On Sale Saturday - 10 AM PDT / 1 PM EDT
Blizzcon 2015 Tickets go on sale again Sturday at 10 AM PDT / 1 PM EDT on Eventbrite. This year they will cost $199 plus taxes and fees for the November 6th - 7th event in Anaheim. If you aren't sure who is going, you have until August 14 to change the name and email addresses of attendees.



BlizzCon Ticket Sales Update
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
Hey everyone,

We’ve heard feedback from some people trying to get BlizzCon tickets Wednesday that the Eventbrite waiting room system wasn’t working as expected for everyone. We’ve been discussing the issue with Eventbrite, and they provided the following update:

The waiting room was not working as intended for some people during Wednesday’s BlizzCon ticket sale. We’ve been actively working to address the issue, and we have implemented some updates that we believe will resolve things for Saturday’s sale. We’ll be keeping a close eye on how the waiting room is functioning during the next sale, and we apologize to anyone who was inconvenienced on Wednesday.

Patch 6.2 Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Timewalking
Isn't timewalking just continued rehashing of old content and calling it new? Call me crazy, but I feel like Blizzard could have made new dungeons to release in 6.2.
We're not all that concerned about how you want to label content after seeing it laid out on paper. There are people out there who are quick to claim that we're pretending "old content" is once again "new content." It's not about old and new. It's about giving players more options and new ways to experience content in World of Warcraft, even if that means creating new systems to experience existing content in different ways.

The common argument, it seems, is that we try to cut corners by "rehashing old content" in order to avoid creating new content. This is a misnomer. Configuring a game system that allows players to experience the dungeons from Wrath of the Lich King and The Burning Crusade at max level, and be appropriately rewarded for it, isn't comparable to designing a new dungeon, especially in terms of art resources -- of which plenty were used to develop Patch 6.2 content.

Timewalking is a new feature. It allows you to access existing content in new and relevant ways. We've not claimed otherwise. If you want to throw a negative label on it, that's up to you. But don't claim that we're pretending this sufficiently absolves us from having to create "new content."

Timewalking also shouldn't give players license to dismiss the actual new content in Tanaan and Hellfire. It's an added feature that we're confident many players will enjoy, as it has the simple goal of providing max-level players with more things to do.

TLDR: It's not very useful to put so much effort into bickering cynically about what content is old or new, and how we're framing that in our patch features list. It'd be a lot more constructive to talk about whether or not new features -- even those that involve existing content -- are fun.

Hey Zar, if you have the time to answer another timewalker question, I'd like to know if the heroics will actually pose a challenge. I just don't want to feel like I'm running say Utgrade Keep and flying past it like I'm in full t10.
We don't want them to be intensely challenging, but we don't want them to be faceroll either. We're in the process of testing the item level to which level-100 players should be scaled down. We're erring on the side of scaling item levels a little lower than they probably would be if one was running these dungeons at their actual level, but that's mostly to try and compensate for the fact that level-100 characters will have extra abilities and talents that they wouldn't at the lower levels, which will be advantageous in some situations.

It does make me curious though, since we would be going back to these dungeons with our current level 100 skill set, is there potential for one or two new mechanics for certain bosses in these dungeons?
As it stands now, no. We're not planning to add new mechanics or creatures. These are literally the existing Heroic versions of the 10 selected dungeons with players' item levels scaled down as I described above.

Will you guys Timewarp these dungeons for every expansion that will be release from now until the end of the World (of Warcraft), or is this a feature for WoD only?
We don't have specific plans to share as of yet. I think it's safe to say that we'd like for this feature to receive updates and be carried onward into the future of WoW, but we'll see how things play out in 6.2.

Why not scale back the talents and abilities? So if you are playing at level 70, you have only the talents and abilities you would have at level 70?
That's not something we want to do. It can be weird and jarring for us to essentially de-level your character's abilities and talents for a specific type of content. We want entering these dungeons at level 100 to feel relatively seamless, aside from a little math under the hood changing your power relative to the content you're running. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

PvP Live Developer Q&A Questions Thread
Q4: Why can't abilities just be split into PvE and PvP versions? 11:52
This is probably the single most important question, and he only gave it about 1.5 minutes of response. "We're not into that solution" "We don't want to see that level of complexity" ... Seems like making a PvP and PvE version of an ability will decrease the complexity of trying to balance them against one another. Will it take a lot of work up front? Yeah, probably. But the end result seems totally worth it. Players won't have to watch as their class gets gutted due to changes made for the purposes of an aspect of the game they care nothing about.
We definitely agree with the underlying sentiment that PvE and PvP should be something that can be tuned separately. We just don't agree that splitting every spell into a PvE and PvP version is the right way to accomplish that goal. There are less cumbersome ways to accomplish that. We're kicking a few ideas around, but it's a bit too early still to share much else.

But yeah, just to be clear: we agree that PvE and PvP are inherently different game types and will often require separate tuning.

I'm not disputing that separating PvE and PvP spells could work. We just have some ideas we think could work better. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Patch 6.2 Change Explanations
How does Blizzard justify making such huge class changes in 6.2 with no communication with the players, and think that that's just okay? The changes to Windwalkers and Brewmasters aren't just number tweaks. They greatly impact how the class will function after the next patch. Why wouldn't you take the time to explain why you're gutting Brewmasters the way that you are?

We're just supposed to go on the ptrs to find that maybe with the new raid trinket, legendary ring and set bonuses, our DPS will remain acceptable? This is just bad game design and I'm not pleased at all with the way that Blizzard is handling class balance.
There's a reason we have a healthy testing phase for large content patches. Our goal is to share more on our design philosophy after further feedback gathering, testing, and tweaking, prior to these changes actually going live.

It's not realistic for us to explain our intent behind every design decision or new feature that's to come in a future patch, as so many details are ironed out over the course of testing. It's understandable that people love to scrutinize patch notes, but there's not much to gain from getting too upset over the first iteration of PTR patch notes.

Do you guys realize how many people your going to lose if you go through with these changes? I really don't think you do.
I realize I've heard that sorta thing every patch for 10 years now.

It also baffles me that Blizz, with all the resources they have at their disposal, can't hire someone to post on the forums for 2-3 hours a day addressing these things when they get released.
Sometimes I wish it were that simple! Providing official responses in somewhat knee-jerk fashion to knee-jerk feedback is oftentimes not beneficial, and can easily make matters worse. Effective communication is about much more than transparency and acknowledgement.

You get knee-jerk feedback because you make boneheaded knee-jerk buffs and nerfs which often comes with no explanation. Effective communication has to come from both sides. If you guys want effective communication from the player base, start making the effort yourselves.
I was referring to us when talking about effective communication in that context. Of course we're far from perfect in that regard. And we never will be when nearly all of our communications are subject to the court of public opinion. But I understand your point. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Tanaan Story
I'm more concerned about it being a storyless pit where there's nothing to do but camp for a mount.

Because that's what TI was. It had no value to max level players with even LFR gear because the RNG nature of the 496's made them pretty bad even for people with the 483's out of MSV.
That's feedback we certainly heard and took to heart following Timeless Isle. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
PvP Gearing and Progression
The PvP gearing process and general idea of character progression are things we talk about and iterate on a lot. Even just looking at how things changed from Cataclysm to Mists, and then from Mists to Warlords, you can see a lot of tinkering and experimentation. We think we've improved with each expansion (particularly with things like the catch-up cap), but don't think we've quite nailed it yet, so we're still looking into ways to improve.

Now, I wouldn't expect any major changes to gearing in 6.2, but it's something we're definitely talking about for the future.

Any chance you can explain holinka's thoughts on the 27k conquest vendor being convoluted? Not a single person I've spoken to thought it was a complex system. It's a very easy 1 sentence answer if someone doesn't understand it; "Once you acqure 27000 conquest points over the course of the season, you are then able to buy conquest items for honor instead".
It's actually a pretty good example of the sort of weird challenge a game like WoW faces sometimes.

There are a TON of people who play WoW. If even a small percentage of those players have a problem with something, that can still be a very large number. In Mists, our CS department was getting a pretty regular stream of tickets from players who were confused about why the vendors weren't willing to sell them gear.

It's the sort of thing that is generally not a problem for the type of person who reads forums and patch notes, but causes a lot of confusion for the people who might not even be aware that the 27k achievement exists in the first place. So, our thinking with Warlords was that, due to gear swapping primary stats and the fact that players who are fully geared generally have extra Conquest anyway, that particular implementation was no longer necessary.

That said, we're hearing the feedback loud and clear that you guys want to have more control over your secondary stats and the ability to gear up alternate specs. We'd rather not go back to the 27k vendor as a solution, but are discussing other options. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Cross-Realm Zones
Competing for quest mobs and nodes while leveling is not my idea of fun. I should not have to login at 2am-5am just to get anything done.
If quests are unable to be completed beyond reasonable respawn timers due to other players that is what we would consider to be a bug, and we'd appreciate you reporting any specific cases.

Resource nodes are however first come first serve, and there will be times when someone else reaches one before you.

I'm curious what purpose CRZ even serves now that there are almost no outdoor elite areas/group quests that would require more than one person to handle. Just to see people?
The intent with CRZ has always been to ensure outdoor zones--in this Massively Multiplayer game--actually have some other people in them, yes. The natural effect of everyone always leveling higher and into higher content is that, or course, most everyone is at max level doing max level things. Being new to the game or even just leveling an alt and not seeing another player for the days or weeks until you're closer to max level isn't a great experience.

It's to reduce server costs. Instead of having to run 20 instances of a zone, they only have to run one.
That's not how it works. Each realm still runs its own zone, and it coalesces players together based on a number of factors like if they're in a group, or their home realm zone population, etc. If a bunch of realms are 'grouped' for CRZ, not everyone in each zone on each of those realms is automatically always in the same 'instance' with each other. It's not simple, and definitely not cost effective--but that isn't the goal. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

An Inside Job Quest Cinematic Missing
If I remember correctly we didn't have it there because it was a big secret until someone unlocked it by completing the quest, and then it was unlocked in everyone's client. If we had anything datamineable about it our fun secret would not be as secret or fun. I haven't checked in 6.2 yet but it should probably be added to the Chronicler list then. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Higher Difficulties in LFR
but it's on a more manageable level, stress wise.
You're putting yourself out here on a public forum, that takes some guts, I have to imagine you'd be capable of running your own group where negativity and tempers are met with whatever response you deem appropriate. Maybe instead of "Don't suck" the group could be called "Be nice or get kicked". What i think needs to happen is for people to take charge of group creation and create the experiences they'd like to have. There's only so much we can do to help lessen social pressures, in a game that is very centrally based on group coordination and player interactions, before those interactions are effectively just taken away. (Which is maybe an option, you could probably close your chat window and not be any worse for the wear a lot of times.)

A higher difficulty LFR will only raise stress levels in those raids, and make them less successful. They'll cause total breakdowns and disbands and ... it's just not going to be the best of both worlds. Difficult content requires coordination and communication, and that's possible with positive and productive attitudes, and every player is capable of making that a reality for them and everyone else in the group.

Does that not raise the question of why don't they? I constantly see players who clear lfr and just seem to give up. Even something as simple as trying to find 4 other people to do a challenge mode is far beyond anything they seem capable of.

If everyone is able to why do you believe so few choose to do so?
Good question... Well some people are fine only seeing LFR. They don't see any point in doing harder content; that's not why they play. For the other people that would like to but don't, the easy/cynical answer is probably because it takes time and effort, but probably more accurately it's likely for some of the same reasons students don't raise their hand, or why class signup rates are higher when they are kept private--people are generally afraid of other people judging them. Lots of people want an easy, smooth, and successful run, but aren't willing to put up with wipes, learning fights, and challenges. Especially with a bunch of strangers. That's where guilds and friends are the biggest difference versus random players, and progressing with other people--even if you've only ever talked to them on mumble--is worlds apart from running with a random group. And it doesn't even have to be a guild now!

But if someone legitimately wants a better experience, and is willing to put in the effort to achieve it... I'm not sure I could answer why they don't. That's a good question.

What do you think? (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

WoW Tokens
We don't allow you to have both Tokens (Shop and AH) at the same time to avoid any kind of purchasing or redemption confusion. If you have the cash to buy a Token from the Shop but also need subscription time, a month of subscription is less expensive and so it's probably recommended you go that route instead. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
PvP
Like PvP? Perhaps consider grabbing Arena Grand Master and Master Pit Fighter (Muffinus)
Perhaps they could be made relevant at 100? AGM & MPF have no reason to be grabbed aside from the gold value now days.
Perhaps that is a good idea (Muffinus)

Once I finished all the quests in Ashran, I vowed never to go back. So I will defer to more seasoned Ashran players to answer this
Your input might be just as interesting. Obviously something turned you off right away. What was it? (Muffinus)

I never even understood how it worked. I preferred Wintergrasp a lot more too.
Do you understand it better now? If yes, what was the catalyst? If no, what questions remain? (Muffinus)
Winterspring is a good example. I used to make sure I never missed the weekly Winterspring. I avoid Ashran like the plague.
Wintergrasp Ok, this is good, discussion is good. Why do you prefer A over B? How did you feel about Tol Barad? (Muffinus)
TB was okay. You could queue up as a group of 3 friends and actually make a difference. Doesn't feel that way in Ashran.
.If you could change 1-3 major things in Ashran, what would you change? (Muffinus)
Have the High Warlord/Grand Marshal drop something of value. It feels so pointless to do Ashran now. One side dominates
What would be an item of value to you, at this point in the expac cycle? (Muffinus)

Professions
Do you enjoy fishing in WoW? What do you like about it? Where do you fish at? (Muffinus)
The Lurker Below in Serpentshrine Cavern is probably the best use of fishing in the game.
or old ZG and the rare feral druid tank staff (Muffinus)

Misc
Doing Garr in oh man such memories, we used to have one hunter (mark each target for each warlock, took 30min (Muffinus)
seeing who could ice block the highest in the air after an explosion was the best as a mage
I was fire spec because I didn't have a DPS meter so I didn't care. What a weird world that was. (Muffinus)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 6.2 PTR Notes - April 17, New Monument, Blizzcon Tickets Saturday, Blue Posts started by chaud View original post
Published on 2015-04-18 01:58 AM
79 Comments
Comments 79 Comments
  1. Laylriana's Avatar
    I would like to see weekends with the old Wintergrasp and VOA where we scale down and the gear from VOA scales up. They redid WG to be a level 90 zone but didn't adjust the gear from VOA so it remained a ghost town. The old level 80 WG was what I loved when people went there to win it and open VOA. Even the levels of tenacity for the faction with fewer people was fun.
  1. Bahska's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by huldu View Post
    It really doesn't matter what they do, you all are still going to cry like babies. I'm perfectly fine with them redoing the old dungeons, I just don't get the weekends concept. Beside that I don't care, it's their game and I just play it. It was sad to read about the raiding discussion because it's true. I don't even know how to sugarcoat my thoughts without getting a warning, but the real problem is most of you people - not the newer players. If you're a new player and for some reason ended up here, don't do raids with random pugs, join some guild on the server. Every time you join a raid pug a part of your soul dies and you'll never get it back.
    Honestly that isn't my experience at all. Sure you get bad groups, a guild has bad nights. But the vast majority of pugs i have joined have gone well. I have also met and became friends with a guild group i joined for imp in highmaul once.
    I agree that its more fun and you will probably enjoy the game more hanging out with friends in a guild but pugging can and has also been a enjoyable experience in wod for me.

    OMG 6.2 is adding a NEW EXIT to the alliance garrison! And TIMEWALKING HOLIDAYS!!!! So essentially there's the bare minimum of content going in, they're aware of how terrible they're doing with this expansion and hope to gouge everyone for more money in the near future. I doubt I'll ever play WoW again =(.
    *Looks at the whole new zone and 13 raid bosses plus new garrison content*
    We are very early in ptr (Meaning there is likely more to be announced which they have hinted on) and already im pretty excited. The Timewalking stuff has been in development since 5.4 its not something they just through together yesterday. If you don't want that don't do it, i however think its cool and would rather do that then say lfr.
    You may think the old scaled up dungeons is a waste of dev time, i think lfr is a waste of dev time. Everyone plays wow for different reasons and for different content.
    Its perfectly fine for there to be something in a patch not everyone wants. All the Darkmoone fair stuff that went in recently? I'll never do any of that but im ok with it being there for those that like and enjoy that.

    Loving the ashran changes as well. Im sure some loved the easy conquest but it was obviously a broken design for a zone that's suppose to be mainly for pvp. However if you like me are 2 parts away from completing your trading post AH...might wanna do it now before the patch i can see it getting harder to obtain the Ashran parts next patch with these changes.
  1. vipers's Avatar
    every patch gives less and less reason go to ashran anymore
  1. aksfjh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Ever thought it might just be testing the waters to see what reception it gets?? And by the looks of some of the posts in this thread would not be the least surprised if it gets canned soon after..

    Of course it is reused content they have said as much that it is.. I mean when they redid ZA, ZG, DM and SFK everyone complained on end saying "lazy ass Blizz using reused content", and now folks reckon the Cata was so good now.. Now the same thing is happening again and the same complaints are coming again..

    And well if from 6.2 and onwards does kill WoW off then people will have to go a play something else and we will have a new king of the MMO's.. /sarcasm
    I'm actually going to resub because of Timewalking. I love dungeons in WoW, always have. The sad fact is that they're usually the fastest content to become obsolete. If they're introducing processes to (easily) bring old dungeons back, that makes me very excited. It's not rebalancing or rewriting old raids, so hopefully the effort is minimal in reviving these old dungeons.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    Ever thought it might just be testing the waters to see what reception it gets?? And by the looks of some of the posts in this thread would not be the least surprised if it gets canned soon after..

    Of course it is reused content they have said as much that it is.. I mean when they redid ZA, ZG, DM and SFK everyone complained on end saying "lazy ass Blizz using reused content", and now folks reckon the Cata was so good now.. Now the same thing is happening again and the same complaints are coming again..

    And well if from 6.2 and onwards does kill WoW off then people will have to go a play something else and we will have a new king of the MMO's.. /sarcasm

    - - - Updated - - -



    Lol Feedback usually implies that it is constructive and helpful.. I would hardly call some of the posts in this thread giving feedback more like a whinefest.. As a saying goes "if you do not have something constructive to say do not say it at all.."
    I don't give two shits what YOU think the definition of feedback is. Saying half assing timewalking and only implementing it 4 days a month and that we're not cool with that IS feedback.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by +Katjá+ View Post
    Tend to agree, I main tanked through TBC and very much doubt the trash packs will be anything other than round 'em up and AoE 'em down.

    Anyone that didn't do the content at the time will still have no idea how Shadow Labyrinth, for example, played at the time.

    And in fact, looking at the list again SL isn't even on there - one of the definitive TBC heroics to my mind.

    Given the shitty, limited way they've implemented Timewalking they may as well have not bothered, what a massive waste of time. Jesus, if you're going to rip ideas off from other games at least do it right. This whole expansion has been one giant clusterfuck.
    They always do this. We asked for armor dye for years, they gave us transmog with a ton of restrictions. We asked for player housing they gave us a shit farm and a facebook game. We ask for level scaling so we can play with our friends they give us this abomination.
  1. IIamaKing's Avatar
    HI Im blizzard, I take a good idea (timewalking) and ruin it by putting prohibitive restrictions on it. Why they could not copy Rifts mentoring system, is beyond me. I personally have NO interest in runing old dungeons for what will be worthless loot to a raider. I do however have EXTREME interest in down scaling myself to quest with friends.
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    I don't give two shits what YOU think the definition of feedback is. Saying half assing timewalking and only implementing it 4 days a month and that we're not cool with that IS feedback.
    And as I said in my post you quoted maybe this is there way to test the waters so to speak.. Yes only a couple days a month or whatever is not that great, but it does give them (maybe) an indicator of whether or not they extend the idea more permanently, and do add more to it.. We all know that MoP's farm was the test bed for the Garrison (which to some is meh), so doing this could possibly be a testbed for later more permanent implementation (though to some will be too late by then) but who knows..

    But really all this "feedback" should be on their own forums (maybe they might even look there and maybe they might take it onboard)..

    But onto other things is that people have to ask themselves on is why no new dungeons (so far) and not the "because Blizz are lazy".. Really people have to seriously ask (and not go off on a (whinge tantrum) why we are not seeing (so far) any new dungeons..

    The main things that make a dungeon a part of the world is a story / lore behind it, if there is no story / lore then the dungeon feels out of place.. Look at all the current dungeons and you see that they have a purpose being there.. And from what little information there is and there is very little at the moment could be why there are no new dungeons (at them moment) will have to wait and see what if anything they might have planned on that front..

    The other thing is longevity if there is nothing in the dungeon to entice the player after they have leveled their toon and geared them up then all those "precious resources" people go on about as having been wasted, and because at the moment there is no real incentive to go do dungeons even the current ones.. During TBC, WoTLK, Cata, and MoP there was a reason to in JP's and VP's, and well garrison resources in WoD are not much of an incentive currently, if they were apexis crystals then there is an incentive as they are more useful in some respects than garrison resources (which are easy to get)..

    TLDR Will just have to wait and see what else comes all we can do and put feedback on their forums where there is more chance that they might read it..
  1. Baluki's Avatar
    Jeez, look at all the complainers.

    IF YOU DON'T LIKE TIMEWALKING, DON'T DO IT. Also, IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT BLIZZARD IS DOING TO THE GAME, STOP PLAYING.

    Now shut up and let the rest of us enjoy the game.
  1. elvor0's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    It's called giving feedback. Your whiny little fanboy shit post does nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Where do you think we got it from? The players didn't come up with the idea, it's been in other games for many years...
    Yes. That was part of my point. Why on earth would you think that I was implying players came up with it? I mean seriously, I said "Just because other games have it" in the post you quoted.

    But players pestering Blizzard to stick it in because it's in other games is different to Blizzard "stealing it" as you put it. If they'd just up and lifted it from another game without players pestering them, then it would be "stealing". As it stands, they're responding to player demand. In a very badly implemented fashion, but responding none the less. It's not a proactive implementation, it's a reactive one.

    Also, the guy you just threw a hissy fit at about whiny shit fanboy posts? Pretty sure he's on about people that just go "UGHHH THIS IS SHIT UNSUB YOU SUCK!" and not people who actually give feedback. Way to get defensive dude. Behave like an adult and actually respond maturely rather than yelling fanboy just because you disagree. Ironically, your response to him doesn't contain anything of merit either, it's just hurling insults. Calling people a fanboy like a 12 year old who's too attached to the console daddy bought him, rather than constructing a counter argument does not lead to people taking you seriously. I don't agree with his notion of "if you don't like it, don't do it" either, but I'm not about to stamp my feet or shout and swear at him just because I disagree.
  1. Gadzooks's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DAV_76 View Post
    Muffinus is by far the nicest blue poster. I wish the others would adopt his tone. It's getting really unpleasant reading some of these CM responses, but I feel I still have to as it's the only real way to learn about the future of the game.
    Have to agree here - I may not like or agree with what he says, but he seems to take the time to be polite and friendly when responding. They need to ban Celestalon and Holinka from engaging with the public, and find more guys like him to filter people like Holinka.
  1. Expectations's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlathe View Post
    I've bolded the relevant part. It's not about new/old content, it's about sucking the $$ for the player base any way they can now with the least amount of work on their part. It's about making sure that there is now a gimmick with the carrot. I'm finding myself playing less and less now, and almost only logging in on raid nights. This expansion has so little to offer right now, and I'm not seeing that changing in 6.2. Timewalking will be good for one, maybe two runs of each dungeon and then they'll be forgotten once again. I'll get whatever achievement they add for them and that's pretty much the only reason I'll run them BECAUSE I RAN THEM A BILLION TIMES WHEN THEY WERE CURRENT CONTENT!

    Imagine if they did this with raids. Can you imagine the blow-back they would get for being so lazy? Raiders would be shitting the bed over only getting recycled content, yet "casual" or non-to-semi raiders are supposed to suck it up and keep paying for scraps? It's going to be really interesting to see how 6.2 plays out, and if it will either stem or accelerate the subscription bleed. I know for me, if it wasn't for tokens, I wouldn't be playing. Thank god gold is so easy to make so that I don't have to pay Blizzard for the slop they're putting out this expansion.
    God forbid a company, Blizzard in this case, would want to make money. Shocking that they would hint at the fact they want to bring back old players, add new players, and do so by adding a dungeon difficulty people have been wanting for years now.

    Seriously. Blizzard is damned if they do, and damed if they don't. If any Blue has attitude with people it is probably deserved.
  1. Gadzooks's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shambulanced View Post
    So, as predicted, some folks did disagree with me. I get that, and I get your points. I think it's humorous that my response to Zarhym's doublespeak was construed as "whiny baby talk." I'm sitting here, as a paying adult, and reading responses like that make me honestly, as a rational adult, wonder why I would continue doing business with the company. It is not horrendous customer service to not give the customer what they want (as in this case the "customer" represents millions more than just me or the OP). It IS horrendous customer service to treat people like idiots. I don't understand why dev teams in the industry get to be that way. If i spoke to co-workers or worse clients like that in my job? Is be out the door in seconds, and replaced.

    So then the obvious reply (I'll pre-empt you) is; "Well, Shambulanced, why don't you just unsub?"
    The reason I stay is because this seems to be the norm in the video game industry. You either have people who are rude and snide at best holding discourse with the customer, or you have absolutely 0 communication between devteam and customer. I haven't personally witnessed a company, yet, who could have a devteam interact with the playerbase in an intelligent and respectful way. I get that a lot of the players have really, really dumb things to say--and bad opinions. It's like that in every industry--you still deal with really stupid customers. But the video game industry is the only one I've encountered yet (outside of maybe the auto mechanic industry?) where there seem to be no reprecussions to treating your customers horrendously. Eesh, I go on a fansite to complain about it and get people crucifying me and calling me a whiny baby. These people aren't gods--they are programmers, and they should be held to some sort of standard or pick up a basic "How 2 customurr survess" self-help guide...

    For the record, my opinion isn't anything other that 100% truth--this content, Timewalking, is 98% rehashed with some different labeling and perhaps a new NPC introduced to give us context. Given how the rest of WoD has gone, I will be sincerely shocked if they invest any more time/effort than that. I'd even be surprised to see 1 bonus new boss per instance--something I'd actually find inviting. My problem is the length and way that Zarhym is spinning this. Whether you want to say it or not, Timewalking IS rehashed content. I have run those dungeons hundreds of times each.

    The limited time thing just makes the feature that much worse.
    Honest answer - the gaming industry is very skewed towards "neckbeardy" types. The kinds of people who design games are the same ones who flip tables in D&D sessions because the players won't conform to their every demand. Social skills are...lacking...in the field, it seems - and Blizzard is like a lot of corporations where working there is so cool, a bubble effect is formed. How dare you criticize us, don't you know who we are? And, lets be honest... customers are more than a bit neckbeardy, too. Every time I watch Blizzcon footage where the audience asks questions, and some pudgy moon faced dude with a Moe haircut gets up and asks a pointed, deep in the lore question like it's literally going to save lives, depending on the answer...I recall, that's probably the same guy ranting about "plebs" and "bads" in chat in-game.

    I'm neutral over the Timewalking thing. Sounds fine to me - but when I saw the weekend/holiday restriction, i thought "Oh, boy...here it comes..." They probably have good reasons for limiting it - like weekends are a better time to slam the instance servers with thousands of new dungeon spawns. But, because it's not going to be 24.7...all hell is breaking loose. LOL. You KNEW that was going to happen.

    And, I'm with you - I don't like the "tone" Blizzard has these days, towards paying customers. It's part of why I'm not a paying customer anymore. I don't like the tone of most of the players - and that's a BIG reason why I'm not paying anymore. And, I run my mouth a lot too - but it's mostly over the tone and incompetence of certain devs who have dream jobs but don't seem to appreciate it, and the bizarre expansion cycle we're seeing unfold. For me, if they had a GC back in place to field the questions flooding in, to do damage control that works, and to give everyone a sense of trust that moving forward, good things will happen, would go a long ways towards the frustration the players are feeling. Hell, just announce flying isn't coming in WoD - let the players who are hinging their decision on it closure, so they can move on, and free up some of the "Flying?" comments.

    And, start treating your customers like their opinion is valuable to you. Zarhym and Bashiok seem to be in a Tseric kind of place where their need to accuse players of agendas and making snarky comments is more important than anything else. I feel they need to be promoted away from public discourse, and new blood brought in. Bashiok at least can be friendly, but honestly, 80-90% of the time when he does comment on something that isn't fluff or silly, it would be better if he didn't talk at all. Lore seems to be better at placating people and simplifying concepts for the masses (even if I can't get past that hair...). Don't let the devs talk to the public, except at Blizzcon. Let guys like Lore and Muffinus translate them for the masses. GC did that, and it worked a LOT better.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by grexly75 View Post
    And as I said in my post you quoted maybe this is there way to test the waters so to speak.. Yes only a couple days a month or whatever is not that great, but it does give them (maybe) an indicator of whether or not they extend the idea more permanently, and do add more to it.. We all know that MoP's farm was the test bed for the Garrison (which to some is meh), so doing this could possibly be a testbed for later more permanent implementation (though to some will be too late by then) but who knows..

    But really all this "feedback" should be on their own forums (maybe they might even look there and maybe they might take it onboard)..

    But onto other things is that people have to ask themselves on is why no new dungeons (so far) and not the "because Blizz are lazy".. Really people have to seriously ask (and not go off on a (whinge tantrum) why we are not seeing (so far) any new dungeons..

    The main things that make a dungeon a part of the world is a story / lore behind it, if there is no story / lore then the dungeon feels out of place.. Look at all the current dungeons and you see that they have a purpose being there.. And from what little information there is and there is very little at the moment could be why there are no new dungeons (at them moment) will have to wait and see what if anything they might have planned on that front..

    The other thing is longevity if there is nothing in the dungeon to entice the player after they have leveled their toon and geared them up then all those "precious resources" people go on about as having been wasted, and because at the moment there is no real incentive to go do dungeons even the current ones.. During TBC, WoTLK, Cata, and MoP there was a reason to in JP's and VP's, and well garrison resources in WoD are not much of an incentive currently, if they were apexis crystals then there is an incentive as they are more useful in some respects than garrison resources (which are easy to get)..

    TLDR Will just have to wait and see what else comes all we can do and put feedback on their forums where there is more chance that they might read it..
    It's actually pathetic, but the devs read the comments here more than their own forums. A few devs have whined about things said in the comments of these threads. I recall ghostcrawler and more recently holinka. Proving grounds was another thing people thought would be just a test and expanded upon. Same with brawlers guild. We saw what happened with those.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Baluki View Post
    Jeez, look at all the complainers.

    IF YOU DON'T LIKE TIMEWALKING, DON'T DO IT. Also, IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT BLIZZARD IS DOING TO THE GAME, STOP PLAYING.

    Now shut up and let the rest of us enjoy the game.
    What would blizzard do without your valiant defense? Hm? Maybe you should shut up and allow Blizz to have some feedback. A bunch of pansy ass yes men that agree with everything they do helps no one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by elvor0 View Post
    Yes. That was part of my point. Why on earth would you think that I was implying players came up with it? I mean seriously, I said "Just because other games have it" in the post you quoted.

    But players pestering Blizzard to stick it in because it's in other games is different to Blizzard "stealing it" as you put it. If they'd just up and lifted it from another game without players pestering them, then it would be "stealing". As it stands, they're responding to player demand. In a very badly implemented fashion, but responding none the less. It's not a proactive implementation, it's a reactive one.

    Also, the guy you just threw a hissy fit at about whiny shit fanboy posts? Pretty sure he's on about people that just go "UGHHH THIS IS SHIT UNSUB YOU SUCK!" and not people who actually give feedback. Way to get defensive dude. Behave like an adult and actually respond maturely rather than yelling fanboy just because you disagree. Ironically, your response to him doesn't contain anything of merit either, it's just hurling insults. Calling people a fanboy like a 12 year old who's too attached to the console daddy bought him, rather than constructing a counter argument does not lead to people taking you seriously. I don't agree with his notion of "if you don't like it, don't do it" either, but I'm not about to stamp my feet or shout and swear at him just because I disagree.
    You're adorable. My favourite part was when you shit on me for hurling insults then you go off on an insult filled little bitch fest. Btw, your logic of "people asked for it therefore it's not stealing" made me laugh out loud. So I thank you for that. Excuse me while I go take all the money from the bank. My friend asked me to so I'm just responding to demand. It's not stealing according to make believe land logic.
  1. Zatheyll's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    It's called giving feedback. Your whiny little fanboy shit post does nothing.
    I'm sorry, I haven't seen any feedback in this entire thread. At all.

    I'm far from a Blizzard fanboy, but at least I can be annoyed at actual problems, unlike the shit that you guys are biting at.

    Maybe if you guys gave some actual feedback Blizzard might listen. It's because of the shit you're forcing them to read that they act the way they do, understandably.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    OMG 6.2 is adding a NEW EXIT to the alliance garrison! And TIMEWALKING HOLIDAYS!!!! So essentially there's the bare minimum of content going in, they're aware of how terrible they're doing with this expansion and hope to gouge everyone for more money in the near future. I doubt I'll ever play WoW again =(.
    Okay, let's say something together.

    "new zone"

    LET'S SAY IT AGAIN.

    "New zone"

    Have it down?

    Now say it five thousand times until you realize what you're actually saying. Then understand that yes, that is new content. Like it or not.
  1. mmocebd2d59021's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    "Most expensive" implies that 10 dollars means much, which it doesn't. WoD already has multiple times more content than the average $60 game, so that point is moot. If they have the audacity to complain, then they shouldn't have bought it.
    That is a fact: WOD was the most expensive expansion of wow, so usually more expensive does allow more content or more quality. Excepting maybe the art direction, I can't say WOD was an excellent expansion, certainly not groundbreaking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    How do you know it was intended for launch? Are you saying that all content in patches should be intended for launch? That would mean devs would have to postpone the expansion for eternity, because content will never be done as long as they can keep making it. Ridiculous.

    Patch content is not part of the expansion's purchase. It is extra "free" content (15 dollars is for server access) that is there to appease people until the next expansion comes. That's it.

    Don't like it? Cancel your subscription. Radical idea, I know. I shock myself sometimes.
    Guess what? I've quit wow a month ago... and realized I lost access to all the thing I paid for years...but paying only cause of a kind of nostalgia of what the game was...that would have been a nonsense. As a customer of Blizzard for about 20 years I think I have some rights to talk about what they were and what they are becoming. There are lots of ideas around these forums to improve the game, but, until now, Blizzard is focusing on what should make the hype or what will make selling the next xpack, searching for a new "garrison".
  1. grexly75's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    It's actually pathetic, but the devs read the comments here more than their own forums. A few devs have whined about things said in the comments of these threads. I recall ghostcrawler and more recently holinka. Proving grounds was another thing people thought would be just a test and expanded upon. Same with brawlers guild. We saw what happened with those.
    Very true on Proving Grounds (I detest PG's especially the enforcement for heroics) since from what I have done in them and what is done in heroics are two different things.. The mobs in heroics do not stand still, but the main issue with PG's was that some classes did better in them than others, walk in there are a hunter or DK no worries done and dusted.. Go in as a ele shaman or mage or any other class and well talk about being a pain..

    But I digress yeah Brawlers Guild who does that, I know I don't not anymore just meh to me.. And I am really surprised that the Blizz devs seem to take notice of this websites forums more than their own forums, be interesting to know why..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gadax View Post
    Guess what? I've quit wow a month ago... and realized I lost access to all the thing I paid for years...but paying only cause of a kind of nostalgia of what the game was...that would have been a nonsense. As a customer of Blizzard for about 20 years I think I have some rights to talk about what they were and what they are becoming. There are lots of ideas around these forums to improve the game, but, until now, Blizzard is focusing on what should make the hype or what will make selling the next xpack, searching for a new "garrison".
    They go pretty much like every other company sooner or later, look at all those other great gaming companies that have been gobbled up over the years..

    There were some great game dev studios in the day such as:

    Rainbird
    Firebird
    Microprose
    Bullfrog
    and many more..
  1. Salech's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    I'm sorry, I haven't seen any feedback in this entire thread. At all.

    I'm far from a Blizzard fanboy, but at least I can be annoyed at actual problems, unlike the shit that you guys are biting at.

    Maybe if you guys gave some actual feedback Blizzard might listen. It's because of the shit you're forcing them to read that they act the way they do, understandably.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Okay, let's say something together.

    "new zone"

    LET'S SAY IT AGAIN.

    "New zone"

    Have it down?

    Now say it five thousand times until you realize what you're actually saying. Then understand that yes, that is new content. Like it or not.
    You mean Tanaan? the thing that should have been in from the release but they chose the easy way so they did not have to do anything? "hmm let's make this area but NOT release it with the game release then we can use it later and we don't have to do 2 zones but only this one!"
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatheyll View Post
    I'm sorry, I haven't seen any feedback in this entire thread. At all.

    I'm far from a Blizzard fanboy, but at least I can be annoyed at actual problems, unlike the shit that you guys are biting at.

    Maybe if you guys gave some actual feedback Blizzard might listen. It's because of the shit you're forcing them to read that they act the way they do, understandably.
    Then you're either blind or stupid. Even saying "I like this" is feedback. Do you English? Do you know what the word feedback means? Should I get the dictionary out for you?
  1. cptaylor38's Avatar
    [QUOTE=Gadzooks;33315973]Seems to me, that as time goes on, the feedback loop between Blizzard and the players is just degrading worse and worse - the knee jerk comment was spot on, and the blue falling back on the "court of public opinion" excuse is pathetic. The problem isn't so much what they're saying, even though 75% it's worthless, it's how they say it, and it's what they don't say. They're spending more time now defending how they respond, than actually responding to an issue, when they're not commenting in silly threads and ignoring 25 page threads over serious issues. Their CM program is a mess, and the players don't trust the devs anymore. It's not healthy.

    Take the Pve and Pvp talents comments. Holinka arrogantly blew it off, and just said "We're not into that solution." So the Blue has to expound on that, and say - "we don't agree with that fix, but we have something else in mind, we fundamentally agree with you that it's a problem." They need to keep microphones away from Holinka, he's incapable of communicating properly. Half the outrage would never appear if he bothered to flesh out answers like that. "We hear you, and agree - but we want to try something else" is far better a response than 'We dislike that solution". Is that so fucking hard, Holinka? Is it so hard to maybe appease your customers, instead of just saying no constantly, and maybe admitting the players have better ideas than you do?

    Edited to add: And, I see it's LORE saying that - dude, you were IN THE FUCKING Q&A! Why on earth did't you say all that THEN? Are you so afraid/in awe of that dick, that you sat there and let him blow off that issue like he did, and then you go to the forums with a reasonable response, to do clean up after his pointless Q&A answers? What the fuckity fuck? If you have a better grasp of the issue and the vision of the staff on how to fix it, why are you asking that fucking dullard, and not doing the Q&A yourself?

    They need another Ghostcrawler. Period. The CMs are too deep into the troll war aspects of the forums, taking things way too personally, and are sounding a bit Tsericcy for my taste - their boss needs to reign them in. They're getting too combative over even simple questions. The devs are too neckbeardy to communicate well. A trustworthy CM or Dev with good social skills and some charm and personality would go a long way right now. Someone more like Muffinus, less like Bashiok.

    PS - I also think it's obvious they're collecting comments for Holinka. He's incapable of communicating with the audience, so they're asking for him, why does Ashran suck, and why didn't Wintergrasp. It's good they're doing it, it's pathetic they need to, but I don't think Holinka will learn anything from it. It's gratifying that others are seeing what I did, early on, that he's just a dick, but it's sad that pvp is in his ham hands moving forward, so it's one less thing that might bring me back.
    QUOTE]


    Exactly, especially in terms of commenting on "silly threads" instead of 25 page posts. But commenting on silly threads allows them to ignore other issues or to communicate with the player community when they occasionally make a good suggestion for the future of the game.

    I don't know. But fanboys using the, "if I got yelled at like that all the time I'd have an attitude too" or "they deserve to have an attitude" need to start having similar attitudes at their place of employment (except they're all either unemployed or 10 years old) and see how far it gets them. That isn't how you speak to paying customers and they're on internet forums where they don't even have to speak face to face with the people that are lashing out at them. I get cussed out or complained at 10 times a day from people having who knows what kind of issue about their medicine (which half the time is their own damn fault) and if so much as one person calls and complains on a survey I get chewed out in a meeting with my supervisor. These devs are just running rampant and getting away with whatever they want because they know however many millions of people, whether due to addiction, being too young to care, or being naïve about other aspects than just the game they have in front of them, keep paying them to do what they've been doing. They're not changing their tune anytime soon because they're cocky and they know they have plenty of profit to hold them over for a long time no matter what kind of job they do or don't do.
  1. Nuvuk's Avatar
    I am digging the ashran changes.
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