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Patch 6.2 - Updated Demon Models
Patch 6.2 finally updates many of the old demon models. Warlocks only use the new Doomguard model and the rest of their pets are still the old demon models.














Flying Feedback
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
"Didn't listen" doesn't = "didn't implement." Designing is a group activity, what I want may not matter in the end, but I read your post. (Muffinus)
I think it's a slight misnomer and most are looking for discussion. Only implementing and saying why feels a bit dismissive.
Understood. While I can't offer much for discussion, hopefully it's a small comfort that at least their posts are read/voices heard. (Muffinus)

Mr. Feasel, ask yourself why you disagree that much with many of your players. Do you still think you adress them?
I may not disagree with you at all. I don't make all of the decisions (Muffinus)

Thanks again for the continued feedback. Still here, still listening, (Muffinus)
"Thanks for the feedback" is becoming the wowdev version of "umadbro"
If I didn't want people to continue providing feedback, I wouldn't have posted anything at all (Muffinus)
feedback is useful with two-sided communication, and you (as a team) are still too quiet
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I think it's important to note that I'm reading all of the responses. (Muffinus)
Would be nice to get the actual reasoning behind decisions instead of snark. A good start is "I'll mention it next meeting."
I never take a piece of feedback lightly. Every Voice Matters. However, I can't talk about internal goings-on. Apologies. (Muffinus)
Sometimes seeing "I hear everything" feels impersonal. Maybe see if you can get a public facing response to some "no" decisions?)
Usually the next product or patch addresses issues, we live in interesting times with instant communication. (Muffinus)

If you're going to announce a major feature being removed indefinitely, an interview isn't the place. Perhaps the main website?
Curious why you feel that way. An interview on a major press site will likely be seen by more players. (CM_Lore)

you realize most of the post has turned into just flaming you guys because months of real feedback was ignored right?
There is a massive difference between "ignored" and "disagreed with." (CM_Lore)

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Selfie Contest Confusion
Hello! Yes we've been working on this for the last few hours after running into an issue with the page not resetting people's entries for the new week. As a solution we're going to be creating a new weekly entry page for each week's challenge that will be specifically for that week. When a new week is available it'll be a new page. To help make that easy for you we're going to constantly update the blizz.ly URL we've been using to always point to the current week's entry page: http://blizz.ly/WoWSelfie

If you did clear your browser and already entered don't worry, your entry is saved, but if you'd like to enter again on the new page there's no penalty, we'll just delete the duplicate. We'll be closing what will be the 'week 1 page' here shortly.

Thanks for your patience, and good luck! (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Iron Man Challenge Stats
I have a few convoluted ways of detecting whether a character has equipped certain restricted gear for the Iron Man challenge, however, I would love to be able to just look at their statistics at a character level
Done. Check out the next PTR build - there should be visible character-specific statistics available to track this information. (Official Forums)

Vanilla Servers
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
I would come back to wow in a heartbeat if blizz made vanilla servers. I would love to experience it all again. By the way I don't mean this as a knock to current WOW, it's just something I would find incredibly fun.
I think the biggest challenges for an idea like this are a) would it be interesting enough to keep playing, and b) would there be enough sustained interest from other players to make the world feel alive. I could easily see the outcome being people logging in, going "wow the game is so much better now," and logging out. (CM_Lore)
IMO seeing how popular uh "theoretical" vanilla servers seem to be, I would say there is at least some demand.
Sure, there's definitely interest, even internally. We just don't think there's enough to offset the costs. (CM_Lore)
Personally, I'd 100% expect it to be something almost everyone just pokes at for a week or two and then drops. (CM_Lore)
Not really an effective use of time for devs who could be working on any number of features for the live game. (CM_Lore)
Speaking for myself, I'd love to go back and poke at classic. I just don't think I'd play it for long. (CM_Lore)
Or, the devs could just 'go back to the core roots', as it were. Yep, especially the class designs, every class used to be fun, but in WoD.
If that's the case, I think we'd rather focus on fixing the modern game. (CM_Lore)

Ghostcrawler Tweets
While the developers have been pretty quiet since @WarcraftDevs appeared, Ghostcrawler still occasionally talks about WoW. Remember that he no longer works for or speaks for Blizzard.
Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
Developer Communication
While I didn't always agree with what you had to say, i, at-least, appreciated that you took the time to say it.
Thanks. I figure at least then players can argue whether we aren't hitting our goals or if the goals themselves are bad. (OccupyGStreet)

We miss you dearly GC. @WatcherDev and his team are alienating @Warcraft players with their hubris.
Whether you like every decision or not, I am confident they have your best interests in mind. (OccupyGStreet)

Game Design
If I was going to make an MMO (I'm not) I think I'd shoot for something episodic with the expectation players come and go. (OccupyGStreet)
How does the social aspect play into that, though? Sounds like it would be hell on guilds.
I agree, but I think players are episodic already so the business model might as well be. Social hard either way. (OccupyGStreet)
Was there ever a time where that wasn't the case? Is it a more prominent problem today versus 2007?
I *think* so (?). A lot of games, LoL among them, are huge. They try to be the only game you need. (OccupyGStreet)
Which means ironically we tend to drop games as soon as we hit diminishing returns b/c there is so much else out there. (OccupyGStreet)

What you say you prefer and what you actually did ended complete opposite.
I was a lead designer not a dictator. (OccupyGStreet)

It stopped being fun when my hunter was mocked for not pulling over 100k dps. That was a year ago. #NoEpeen
I wish we had been more progressive about trying to curb bad behavior. (OccupyGStreet)
I wish so, too. I would never raid because of all the bs. But i have some awesome rare hunter pets
One secret is to turn off chat (in any game). That is pretty much their only tool in being a tool. (OccupyGStreet)

The game has too much math and has lost the adventure part. ilvl has ruined the fantasy journey of azeroth. Players couldnt see item ilvl back then. There was no need for perfect dpsrotations in molten core. It was an adventure
I don't think it was ilvl per se. There was just less shared knowledge, which makes sense for a younger game in the 2000s. (OccupyGStreet)
Most of us didn't approach *any* game back then with "How do I min/max this? What is the best spec?" (OccupyGStreet)
We played the characters we chose and when our guilds ventured into MC we used what we had. Alts were rarer in those days too. (OccupyGStreet)

Do you think WoW should have more exclusivity - like it did back in the old days? BC
Exclusivity works when it's stacked on top of normal content (not replacing it) which just means you need more content. (OccupyGStreet)
I was under the impression that Exclusivity was an integral part of why MMO's were successful in the first place.
I think so. But you can't have special content for the elite and nothing for everyone else. (OccupyGStreet)

I didn't start WoW until 2007. I recall lots of fun times since, screencaps from most of them, others just memories in brain.
I remember the feelings so vividly. I don't think you can recapture them though. (This is also true of most of life, sadly.) (OccupyGStreet)



DLC #490 - Food Buff
DLC #490 has been released.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 6.2 - Demon Models, Flying Feedback, Blue Posts, Vanilla Servers, DLC #490 started by chaud View original post
Comments 144 Comments
  1. Backjauer's Avatar
    Entitled whiny shits who can't comprehend the fact that not everyone shares their train of thought.
    To be honest that goes for the majority most of the time too. It goes for the entire player base.
  1. Buu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by thilicen View Post
    Loving the no flying thing, glad to see it's continuing.

    Next x-pack looks more and more like it's going to be a Burning Legion expansion. Probably not Argus itself though.
    Yeah, and we will be back at Cataclysm, where the state of the game was so deteriorated for the "vanilla difficulty was the best pink goggles", that they pushed LFR and rushed the balanced to what people told for long. Just because YOU PEOPLE that applaud this BS were so few that you weren't supporting financially the game enough.

    You people are still so few in numbers that AGAIN it's a matter of WHEN and not IF Blizzard will cave in. Forget it, you'll never push your bullying over the majority for more than a few months, every couple of years, because you haven't money to make up for us leaving.
  1. snuzzle's Avatar
    *stares at shiny new demon models, then crappy old 2004 Moonkin form, then back to new shiny demon models*

    WELLP. :|
  1. Mask's Avatar
    Everquest just opened a "classic" server this week called Ragefire, which is starting with vanilla EQ and will be releasing the next expansion every 6 months. It has been quite popular. I had to sit in queue for over an hour just to get in to play today.

    I think a vanilla WoW server with some kind of progression of expansions over time would also be extremely popular just like it has been in EQ. You don't need millions of people playing it, just enough people to fill one server worth of community. I bet there are easily enough for that - In fact the server would probably be packed.
  1. Toclafane's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by thilicen View Post
    And they both have one thing in common: Both claims they are the vast majority, and the fact that Blizz disagrees with them can only mean that they are completely ignoring the entire community.

    Or as I like to call them: Entitled whiny shits who can't comprehend the fact that not everyone shares their train of thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    Thank you for the summary.
    Not everyone shares your train of thought, either. Then again, not everyone sees an opinion they disagree with it and labels it as "whiny" or "entitled" simply because it's a view different from their own. Some are perfectly capable of instead seeing something they disagree with, stating as much, and providing a counterpoint. "You're an entitled whiny shit," isn't a counterpoint. It only says, "They like something I don't like, and I'm going to call them names, now." I get it. Entitled whiny shits are bad. Entitled whiny shits who whine about entitled whiny shits are worse.

    At least the folks who like flying are for the most part capable of stating why they want it back. Heck, most are even fine with not having flying during the leveling process and having flight linked to an achievement of some sort so that they can experience the game from the ground, first. They are, after all, paying money for the game. Telling the company what they're looking for in a product they'll buy isn't unheard of. It's expected and far from "whiny." Further, when you pay for a product and what something you'll have fun with for your money-- particularly something that they were told would be eventually added into the expansion they purchased-- that doesn't make you "entitled."

    If you pay for a bacon and egg biscuit and you're given a plain biscuit, going to the counter and asking that they give you what you asked for doesn't make you entitled or whiny.

    And now I just want a damn biscuit.
  1. Mask's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Buu View Post
    Yeah, and we will be back at Cataclysm, where the state of the game was so deteriorated for the "vanilla difficulty was the best pink goggles", that they pushed LFR and rushed the balanced to what people told for long. Just because YOU PEOPLE that applaud this BS were so few that you weren't supporting financially the game enough.

    You people are still so few in numbers that AGAIN it's a matter of WHEN and not IF Blizzard will cave in. Forget it, you'll never push your bullying over the majority for more than a few months, every couple of years, because you haven't money to make up for us leaving.
    Cataclysms heroic dungeon problem was they designed a dungeon with the difficulty of what an organized group could handle, and then opened it up for LFG. Chaos ensued. I blame the LFG system entirely for all the rage that happened at the start of Cata. LFG should have been kept to normal modes only.

    The dungeons themselves were amazing - those heroics at the beginning of Cata were the best 5 man group content in WoW since Strath and Scholomance back in 2004/5.
  1. CosmicGuitars's Avatar
    Blizz has already said they're not giving the player warlocks the upgraded demon models.
  1. arcaneshot's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mask View Post
    Cataclysms heroic dungeon problem was they designed a dungeon with the difficulty of what an organized group could handle, and then opened it up for LFG. Chaos ensued. I blame the LFG system entirely for all the rage that happened at the start of Cata. LFG should have been kept to normal modes only.

    The dungeons themselves were amazing - those heroics at the beginning of Cata were the best 5 man group content in WoW since Strath and Scholomance back in 2004/5.
    "Amazing" isn't what I think of when I think about having to run Heroic Grim Batol.
  1. Tisane's Avatar
    I never thought like this in the past and I don't even care whether flying will be removed forever or not, but I think those recent blueposts are disgusting.

    While I can't offer much for discussion, hopefully it's a small comfort that at least their posts are read/voices heard. (Muffinus)
    I don't make all of the decisions (Muffinus)
    Still here, still listening, (Muffinus)
    I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I think it's important to note that I'm reading all of the responses. (Muffinus)
    Every Voice Matters. However, I can't talk about internal goings-on. Apologies. (Muffinus)
    There is a massive difference between "ignored" and "disagreed with." (CM_Lore)

    That all translates into ''We are listening to you, but won't do anything with it.'' in my opinion. Anyone can protect those blueposts in any way they want, but one thing is pretty obvious: The blues don't want to make stuff clear this time. Get to the point and either say that you might consider using the community's feedback or say that you will not instead of keep talking around it. I'd be ok with any answer, just don't talk vague. I don't like that.

    P.S.: No, it doesn't comfort me that posts are read but ignored using different wording.
  1. mmocecbefcd692's Avatar
    As a Warlock I don't want any of my demons to be updated, except maybe the Imps. Not a big upgrade there tho :P
  1. mmoc553ea44d9a's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by melak View Post
    They always give the same response to vanilla servers, they just "think" people will play for a week, funny how many "vanilla" servers there are (private), and they seem to keep playing. I think its more like they would feel like accepting defeat or failure if they actually put up vanilla servers, and that is one of the major reasons it has not been done yet, even after constant requests for it.
    Give me back TBC and i'll play like mad...In fact they could just test how it goes if they would release servers like that.
    Even with the older graphics i would prefer ANY pre-MoP WoW . And yes i believe, too, that the afraid more people will actually play older editions than WoD or MoP... Meanwhile i wouldn't see as "defeat" if they actually listened people feedback and even release older expansions servers,something many people ask here and there... In fact that would be a "victory" by having happy customers and their adaptability could be legendary...
  1. Mekh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tisane View Post
    I never thought like this in the past and I don't even care whether flying will be removed forever or not, but I think those recent blueposts are disgusting.














    That all translates into ''We are listening to you, but won't do anything with it.'' in my opinion. Anyone can protect those blueposts in any way they want, but one thing is pretty obvious: The blues don't want to make stuff clear this time. Get to the point and either say that you might consider using the community's feedback or say that you will not instead of keep talking around it. I'd be ok with any answer, just don't talk vague. I don't like that.

    P.S.: No, it doesn't comfort me that posts are read but ignored using different wording.
    Can't implement or remove stuff on the whim of a few loud people. If a group suddenly started asking for a gravity gun or cover-based combat, we'd all expect the devs to "listen" but not act on it.
  1. Jin's Avatar
    you realize most of the post has turned into just flaming you guys because months of real feedback was ignored right?
    There is a massive difference between "ignored" and "disagreed with." (CM_Lore)
    This.... if the majority of your testers, if the majority of the players currently aren't happy, said things that needed to change.. and he says that.. i mean.. even if you disagree, you better have a damn good reason NOT to do the things being asked in one form or another.
  1. Buu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    Can't implement or remove stuff on the whim of a few loud people. If a group suddenly started asking for a gravity gun or cover-based combat, we'd all expect the devs to "listen" but not act on it.
    They can chose not to act on it, but there is the price to pay when competitors hear and their customers leave to people better prepared to attend to demands.
    Thing is that ANY MMO-RPG that take this cue and say they will receive the orphans of Flight will have a lot of good will from millions of players.
  1. Milerks's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Killedbydeath View Post
    Give me back TBC and i'll play like mad...In fact they could just test how it goes if they would release servers like that.
    Even with the older graphics i would prefer ANY pre-MoP WoW . And yes i believe, too, that the afraid more people will actually play older editions than WoD or MoP... Meanwhile i wouldn't see as "defeat" if they actually listened people feedback and even release older expansions servers,something many people ask here and there... In fact that would be a "victory" by having happy customers and their adaptability could be legendary...
    heard about private servers? ......

    'people gonna poke it and leave it in a week saying wow is so much better now'
    - yup, thats why nostalrius alone has 6k online players, most of those who wanna play vanilla, will stay and play it

    we would only need to have TBC servers, theres lack of them on the market, just a few servers with over 1k online players
  1. Lethora's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Backjauer View Post
    As far as Vanilla servers go, I have no interest. Give me a WOTLK or maybe TBC server and I'd be quite interested though. I'm calling bullshit on . Class design was all over the place in Vanilla, and some specs were basically unusable in raids and stuff.
    It's because people have rose-tinted glasses all over their eyes.
    I wouldn't want to play any of previous expansions again. I want the game to move forward, not be stuck somewhere in the past.
  1. Arbs's Avatar
    I think a TBC server would be more popular than Vanilla, simply because TBC fixed alot of what was broken in Vanilla. But if Blizzard did a progression server that moved in TBC alot of interest would open up.
  1. Lethora's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Milerks View Post
    heard about private servers? ......

    'people gonna poke it and leave it in a week saying wow is so much better now'
    - yup, thats why nostalrius alone has 6k online players, most of those who wanna play vanilla, will stay and play it

    we would only need to have TBC servers, theres lack of them on the market, just a few servers with over 1k online players
    Yeah, but you forget one big thing: private servers do not require subscription. I doubt as many people would play in pay-to-play environment.
  1. Mekh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Buu View Post
    They can chose not to act on it, but there is the price to pay when competitors hear and their customers leave to people better prepared to attend to demands.
    Thing is that ANY MMO-RPG that take this cue and say they will receive the orphans of Flight will have a lot of good will from millions of players.
    and any mmorpg can take the cue and provide their players with gravity guns and other promises too. I for one welcome our new flying gravity gun overlords. In other words: by all means, if a studio thinks they can deliver on a full 3d, all axis, flying based mmorpg, I will even give it a try. Flying in WoW however is about as involving as no-clipping through Doom 3.
  1. kamuimac's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tisane View Post

    That all translates into ''We are listening to you, but won't do anything with it.'' in my opinion. Anyone can protect those blueposts in any way they want, but one thing is pretty obvious: The blues don't want to make stuff clear this time. Get to the point and either say that you might consider using the community's feedback or say that you will not instead of keep talking around it. I'd be ok with any answer, just don't talk vague. I don't like that.

    P.S.: No, it doesn't comfort me that posts are read but ignored using different wording.
    dont worry after q2 and q3sub resoults theywill
    a) change their tone
    b) fire half of braindead devs who makethose decisions - no sane shareholder will allow loosing milion of dollars just cause of stubborn dev who live in his own delusional world

    you may milk the cow but you dont slaughter it when it still gives milk just cause ur stubborn.

    for whatever reason they still seem those think that everything is ok when at average1 mln people unsuubbing each month

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