Patch 6.2 - Demon Models, Flying Feedback, Blue Posts, Vanilla Servers, DLC #490

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Patch 6.2 - Updated Demon Models
Patch 6.2 finally updates many of the old demon models. Warlocks only use the new Doomguard model and the rest of their pets are still the old demon models.














Flying Feedback
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
"Didn't listen" doesn't = "didn't implement." Designing is a group activity, what I want may not matter in the end, but I read your post. (Muffinus)
I think it's a slight misnomer and most are looking for discussion. Only implementing and saying why feels a bit dismissive.
Understood. While I can't offer much for discussion, hopefully it's a small comfort that at least their posts are read/voices heard. (Muffinus)

Mr. Feasel, ask yourself why you disagree that much with many of your players. Do you still think you adress them?
I may not disagree with you at all. I don't make all of the decisions (Muffinus)

Thanks again for the continued feedback. Still here, still listening, (Muffinus)
"Thanks for the feedback" is becoming the wowdev version of "umadbro"
If I didn't want people to continue providing feedback, I wouldn't have posted anything at all (Muffinus)
feedback is useful with two-sided communication, and you (as a team) are still too quiet
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I think it's important to note that I'm reading all of the responses. (Muffinus)
Would be nice to get the actual reasoning behind decisions instead of snark. A good start is "I'll mention it next meeting."
I never take a piece of feedback lightly. Every Voice Matters. However, I can't talk about internal goings-on. Apologies. (Muffinus)
Sometimes seeing "I hear everything" feels impersonal. Maybe see if you can get a public facing response to some "no" decisions?)
Usually the next product or patch addresses issues, we live in interesting times with instant communication. (Muffinus)

If you're going to announce a major feature being removed indefinitely, an interview isn't the place. Perhaps the main website?
Curious why you feel that way. An interview on a major press site will likely be seen by more players. (CM_Lore)

you realize most of the post has turned into just flaming you guys because months of real feedback was ignored right?
There is a massive difference between "ignored" and "disagreed with." (CM_Lore)

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Selfie Contest Confusion
Hello! Yes we've been working on this for the last few hours after running into an issue with the page not resetting people's entries for the new week. As a solution we're going to be creating a new weekly entry page for each week's challenge that will be specifically for that week. When a new week is available it'll be a new page. To help make that easy for you we're going to constantly update the blizz.ly URL we've been using to always point to the current week's entry page: http://blizz.ly/WoWSelfie

If you did clear your browser and already entered don't worry, your entry is saved, but if you'd like to enter again on the new page there's no penalty, we'll just delete the duplicate. We'll be closing what will be the 'week 1 page' here shortly.

Thanks for your patience, and good luck! (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Iron Man Challenge Stats
I have a few convoluted ways of detecting whether a character has equipped certain restricted gear for the Iron Man challenge, however, I would love to be able to just look at their statistics at a character level
Done. Check out the next PTR build - there should be visible character-specific statistics available to track this information. (Official Forums)

Vanilla Servers
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
I would come back to wow in a heartbeat if blizz made vanilla servers. I would love to experience it all again. By the way I don't mean this as a knock to current WOW, it's just something I would find incredibly fun.
I think the biggest challenges for an idea like this are a) would it be interesting enough to keep playing, and b) would there be enough sustained interest from other players to make the world feel alive. I could easily see the outcome being people logging in, going "wow the game is so much better now," and logging out. (CM_Lore)
IMO seeing how popular uh "theoretical" vanilla servers seem to be, I would say there is at least some demand.
Sure, there's definitely interest, even internally. We just don't think there's enough to offset the costs. (CM_Lore)
Personally, I'd 100% expect it to be something almost everyone just pokes at for a week or two and then drops. (CM_Lore)
Not really an effective use of time for devs who could be working on any number of features for the live game. (CM_Lore)
Speaking for myself, I'd love to go back and poke at classic. I just don't think I'd play it for long. (CM_Lore)
Or, the devs could just 'go back to the core roots', as it were. Yep, especially the class designs, every class used to be fun, but in WoD.
If that's the case, I think we'd rather focus on fixing the modern game. (CM_Lore)

Ghostcrawler Tweets
While the developers have been pretty quiet since @WarcraftDevs appeared, Ghostcrawler still occasionally talks about WoW. Remember that he no longer works for or speaks for Blizzard.
Originally Posted by MMO-Champion
Developer Communication
While I didn't always agree with what you had to say, i, at-least, appreciated that you took the time to say it.
Thanks. I figure at least then players can argue whether we aren't hitting our goals or if the goals themselves are bad. (OccupyGStreet)

We miss you dearly GC. @WatcherDev and his team are alienating @Warcraft players with their hubris.
Whether you like every decision or not, I am confident they have your best interests in mind. (OccupyGStreet)

Game Design
If I was going to make an MMO (I'm not) I think I'd shoot for something episodic with the expectation players come and go. (OccupyGStreet)
How does the social aspect play into that, though? Sounds like it would be hell on guilds.
I agree, but I think players are episodic already so the business model might as well be. Social hard either way. (OccupyGStreet)
Was there ever a time where that wasn't the case? Is it a more prominent problem today versus 2007?
I *think* so (?). A lot of games, LoL among them, are huge. They try to be the only game you need. (OccupyGStreet)
Which means ironically we tend to drop games as soon as we hit diminishing returns b/c there is so much else out there. (OccupyGStreet)

What you say you prefer and what you actually did ended complete opposite.
I was a lead designer not a dictator. (OccupyGStreet)

It stopped being fun when my hunter was mocked for not pulling over 100k dps. That was a year ago. #NoEpeen
I wish we had been more progressive about trying to curb bad behavior. (OccupyGStreet)
I wish so, too. I would never raid because of all the bs. But i have some awesome rare hunter pets
One secret is to turn off chat (in any game). That is pretty much their only tool in being a tool. (OccupyGStreet)

The game has too much math and has lost the adventure part. ilvl has ruined the fantasy journey of azeroth. Players couldnt see item ilvl back then. There was no need for perfect dpsrotations in molten core. It was an adventure
I don't think it was ilvl per se. There was just less shared knowledge, which makes sense for a younger game in the 2000s. (OccupyGStreet)
Most of us didn't approach *any* game back then with "How do I min/max this? What is the best spec?" (OccupyGStreet)
We played the characters we chose and when our guilds ventured into MC we used what we had. Alts were rarer in those days too. (OccupyGStreet)

Do you think WoW should have more exclusivity - like it did back in the old days? BC
Exclusivity works when it's stacked on top of normal content (not replacing it) which just means you need more content. (OccupyGStreet)
I was under the impression that Exclusivity was an integral part of why MMO's were successful in the first place.
I think so. But you can't have special content for the elite and nothing for everyone else. (OccupyGStreet)

I didn't start WoW until 2007. I recall lots of fun times since, screencaps from most of them, others just memories in brain.
I remember the feelings so vividly. I don't think you can recapture them though. (This is also true of most of life, sadly.) (OccupyGStreet)



DLC #490 - Food Buff
DLC #490 has been released.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 6.2 - Demon Models, Flying Feedback, Blue Posts, Vanilla Servers, DLC #490 started by chaud View original post
Published on 2015-05-26 07:57 AM
145 Comments
Comments 144 Comments
  1. leothar's Avatar
    You guys are seriously underestimating the amount of developer time it'd take to get a vanilla server running. Time which they would rather spend on the next patch/expansion. And if you actually played vanilla for more than 5 minutes you'd notice how shit that game was.

    A huge factor for those private servers is also the fact that they don't require a subscription... kinda skews the numbers a bit.
  1. Meggle's Avatar
    Not sure how I feel about fel-pups realy. :/ It lost a lot of the old charm.
  1. mmoc5337f9d117's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by leothar View Post
    You guys are seriously underestimating the amount of developer time it'd take to get a vanilla server running. Time which they would rather spend on the next patch/expansion. And if you actually played vanilla for more than 5 minutes you'd notice how shit that game was.

    A huge factor for those private servers is also the fact that they don't require a subscription... kinda skews the numbers a bit.
    So they wouldn't have time to create new and exciting store mounts?

    Also you would pay the sub for it and you could play vanilla or current exp whenever you want. So everyone wins. Which means it won't be implemented. Blizz doesn't like it if the players win as well
  1. z3rodown's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by leothar View Post
    You guys are seriously underestimating the amount of developer time it'd take to get a vanilla server running. Time which they would rather spend on the next patch/expansion. And if you actually played vanilla for more than 5 minutes you'd notice how shit that game was.

    A huge factor for those private servers is also the fact that they don't require a subscription... kinda skews the numbers a bit.
    If runescape, everquest, and others can manage it, so can Blizzard. They make plenty of money to assign atleast 10 people to the project to get it up and running.
  1. buddah13's Avatar
    I keep reading these blue posts that say

    "keeping quite isnt ignoring, it is not agree either"

    if they want the WoW community to support them to a fuller value then they need to come out and explain why they agree with something . . like flying, its obvious it is not coming to WoD until the end to of the expac or at all, but it would be nice for someone there to say "well guys we talk about it every day at every meeting, we all agree it is not something we are going to put in WoD, sorry, wait till next expac"

    there , issue over.

    or what about garrisons : " hey guys we listened to your feedback about the garrissons and we agree that you spend to much time there but not in the world itself, we will work on making it better and fuller, in the mean time here is what we can do"

    there, they know, or we know that they know

    Honestly i am stunned at the lack of communication , either way, on any subject, like others had i known this expac was like it is, i would never had paid for it, and although my voice is tiny and small and never will be heard by the game developer, they def lost me, my wife, and 3 friends subs , drop in the bucket for them, but i see it as getting worse for this game.

    i would have vented in the WoW boards but i am not upping my sub to do it. its too bad really this game is getting really long in the tooth, and they dont seem to want to fix it
  1. lokinrond713's Avatar
    Both the infernals and doomguards have that "squatting, taking a dump, stance".
  1. TmrAsakura's Avatar
    New demon models are pretty cool, really dumb that warlocks will only get the updated doomguard though.
  1. Keile's Avatar
    https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...76335873024000

    Looks like Locks WILL be getting the new models.
  1. Hordok's Avatar
    If you think for one second that a vanilla server and a TBC server would be empty or even low populated(Which looks like about 500 active players on each side.) you're flat out stupid. I know it's hard to wrap your head around the idea that people like and prefer the older versions on the game, especially with all the new good stuff like getting epics so fast it will make your head spin or sitting in your garrison and waiting for a pvp queue or sitting in your garrison waiting on a dungeon or raid finder or looking for raid queue or going out of your garrison to collect "Treasure"... But some people like the old way better and the reason people don't stay on private servers for long is that they're unstable and some are buggy to unbelievable levels. I've seen sever that were players know that the server is broken with some content being unavailable/ to broken to play, classes don't work how they should/did on live servers. But they keep playing and the server see's more than 1 thousand players a day and you're telling me that these server wouldn't be cost effective/populated, now come on you can't be that far from your player base. People want the old versions of the game because people who want to play that version understand what they like about vanilla, tbc, wrath, and why deny them their fun and force them to seek out other ways of playing the game they want to play. Why would you rather just say "well that's to bad, goodbye"; instead of just catering to this slice of the WoW community and bring them together under the Blizzard banner with support from Blizzard and the have them enjoy how the game how they want be. Maybe it's because I not very business minded but I don't see how this could cost more money than it's makes. And if Blizzard is worried about how much it would cost why not throw up a kick starter or some crowdfunding project?
  1. Sharpdarts's Avatar
    I find it funny you hear two different groups that want two different things. Vanilla servers that didn't have flying and people who want the current game with flying. Anyone else find those views contradictory?
  1. Traveler Voltin's Avatar
    Well time to be that guy , wtf blizzard warlocks get new pet models but druids are stuck with the crappy mookin models still
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokten View Post
    Source?????
    Common sense. The only people that don't like it are world pvp gankers not realizing the feather makes it irrelevant. If these people truly didn't like flying they would have went around mop on the ground. Hypocrites all of them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycann View Post
    The only reason Private vanilla servers are dead is because they stop getting supported. There is a new private server that has been running for a few months now, and has a constant 6000+ playerbase.

    The thing is, even if only a very small percent of the player base wants it, I would think its something Blizzard could easily make money on. I'm just worried that the reason they refuse to release an older content server is that they thing it will take from the newest WoW server player base.


    Nostalrius Begins has a peak of 7500 concurrent players. With an average of 6000 concurrent. No idea how many people actually play.
    LOL 6000, and you're saying that like it's a good thing. Keep in mind 5000 of them are just playing it cause it's free.
  1. Mask's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post

    LOL 6000, and you're saying that like it's a good thing. Keep in mind 5000 of them are just playing it cause it's free.
    How many concurrent players do you think are on a current wow live server?
  1. splatomat's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpdarts View Post
    I find it funny you hear two different groups that want two different things. Vanilla servers that didn't have flying and people who want the current game with flying. Anyone else find those views contradictory?
    Uh, two different groups want two different things. You...said it yourself. Right there. In the quoted section. If one group wanted two different things that couldn't exist side by side, that would be contradictory.

    But that wouldn't even be the case with pro-Vanilla and pro-flying, since Vanilla servers would be separate from all the other servers (normal, PVP, RP).

    Just to make it clear:

    Pro-flying people do not want a Vanilla server with flying. They want their normal modern servers with flying.

    Pro-Vanilla people want a server ruleset that creates separate Vanilla-themed servers.

    It seems pretty simple to me but reading the comments here it must be confusing...?
  1. Sharpdarts's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by splatomat View Post
    Uh, two different groups want two different things. You...said it yourself. Right there. In the quoted section. If one group wanted two different things that couldn't exist side by side, that would be contradictory.

    But that wouldn't even be the case with pro-Vanilla and pro-flying, since Vanilla servers would be separate from all the other servers (normal, PVP, RP).

    Just to make it clear:

    Pro-flying people do not want a Vanilla server with flying. They want their normal modern servers with flying.

    Pro-Vanilla people want a server ruleset that creates separate Vanilla-themed servers.

    It seems pretty simple to me but reading the comments here it must be confusing...?
    But that's my point, that is three iteration of the same game. Not to mention people who want TBC servers or LK servers then it balloons to five iterations of the same game, and none are happy because populations are split. Games grow and evolve new players come and go. If you can't grow with it play a different game that is 10 8 or 6 years old. When people say I want flying back I hear I want to skip content and mobs. When I hear I want play vanilla servers I hear, I want t play the same thing I played 10 years ago over and over and over. Wow has lasted ten years because the have reinvented a fun game on the same theme. The game plays very differently from the game made ten years ago. Enjoy what they offer us or play something different new people we come into replace you. Or you'll grow and enjoy the new game.
  1. mmoccf26ed0e44's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mask View Post
    LOL 6000, and you're saying that like it's a good thing. Keep in mind 5000 of them are just playing it cause it's free.

    Where did you get that number of 5000? on what base did you say ? i see many people say that vanilla is the worst xpac ever created, the numbers tell us something else. please do not comment if you have no clue what are you talking about
  1. Violent's Avatar
    Is there anyone else who reads these "feedback" posts from "Muffinus" and gets pissed off?

    I mean, is it just me, or are these people (the Blues who respond to feedback) just basically telling players to "fuck off", in a few better words?
    It seems the blues get angry when players are asking questions and what not..

    The one (muffinus) literally says: "I don't make all of the decisions." .. NO SHIT SHERLOCK... Does he really think some players think that?
    I dunno, could be just me, but the Blues seem like they're getting pissy with players.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scubaskot View Post
    Where did you get that number of 5000? on what base did you say ? i see many people say that vanilla is the worst xpac ever created, the numbers tell us something else. please do not comment if you have no clue what are you talking about
    You mean like how you just called Vanilla an "xpac" ? Yeah, people who don't know shouldn't speak on what they don't know. GFG Brah, take your own advice.
  1. Logwyn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by McMick View Post
    You pretty much answered that yourself.

    As i mentioned, people have grown a lot, the question nowadays wouldnt be IF most players could manage entry raids it's how FAST. If they gate it so that the raids open every time the latest is beaten it would make for a fast paced gloryride

    Trust me though, AQ40 and Naxx40 ARE challenging, even the trash was painful in there. I'd easily compare the difficulty of those raids to some of the hardest WoW fights. Nothing in vanilla (that i experienced) comes close to Firefighter, Yogg0, LK 25 HC pre nerf, Muru, Vashj, Kaelthas and Firelands Rag tho.

    The point is that it would be either a trip down memory lane or a chance to see which parts are as glorious as oldtimers make them out to be.
    Not sure the open next raid when a boss the last boss was killed would work. I'd predict you'd have the "world firsts" opening things up like mad as they already know how and best way to kill XYZ. Everything would be open in a week?

    But you'd have to get 40 players for all the Vanilla raids... then loose 30 to do Kara...then recruit again for the 20s... hmmm.

    Are we talking though classes kinda stay as they are? Like can my pally spec prot and tank Molten Core or are they reserved to off healing following around being bored in MC?


    As for flying. WOD zones seem smaller than other zones to me. More cramped not as open. Honestly they seem to be design for running not mounts at all. To me they feel very maze like. Nothing like the Open zones of the other expansion. Of course this is my personal perspective.

    Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if they'd have thought to make certain zones use flying mounts. Spires would have been a good example. Why not have the need to fly there with "birdmen" building platforms and such to fly between. I bet the reason for no flying is that they are using it as a "wall" to keep players out of certain areas and couldn't figure out how to keep you from example Tanaan Jungle without just a invisible wall.
  1. Tart's Avatar
    Last few DLC have been about as funny as a kick in the bollocks lately.
  1. manniefaces's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by melak View Post
    They always give the same response to vanilla servers, they just "think" people will play for a week, funny how many "vanilla" servers there are (private), and they seem to keep playing. I think its more like they would feel like accepting defeat or failure if they actually put up vanilla servers, and that is one of the major reasons it has not been done yet, even after constant requests for it.
    Because they are right you would play for a week and walk away.
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