Armory Stats - Flying Achievements, August 14 Hotfixes, Blue Tweets, HS:TGT Cards

After actually watching the interview I feel even better abotu the changes, although I was excited about Ashran too, and that totally broke once the players got thier hands on it.

I like the idea of the PvP templates, especially as it gives them that many more knobs to twist without disturbing the PvE guys and causing them to weep and wail.

I have to say I did not mind the pve/pvp gear split, and the dual item level thing, though I wold have done it all the other way around and made the raid gear with a dual ilvl and have that upper ilvl only pop inside raid instances.

Originally Posted by gkai

PvP changes look great but we'll have to wait until open beta to see how exactly stat changes work.

You forget that people like to get good gear and pawn other people. Think of the whole 'twink' phenomenon which Blizzard eliminated a while back by putting them in their own battlegrounds. I expect this new PVP system will simply end up with fewer than ever people doing PVP since it eliminates the people with better gear pawning everyone else AND the people who just aren't very good at PVP. What do you have left? A lot smaller PVP community.

Originally Posted by Stellan

You forget that people like to get good gear and pawn other people. Think of the whole 'twink' phenomenon which Blizzard eliminated a while back by putting them in their own battlegrounds. I expect this new PVP system will simply end up with fewer than ever people doing PVP since it eliminates the people with better gear pawning everyone else AND the people who just aren't very good at PVP. What do you have left? A lot smaller PVP community.

What about people like me who will now jump in a game more often BECAUSE of these changes?

Sky isnt falling.

I dont like the pvp changes. I would just like to add one thing that I think will happen once the pvp changes go into effect.

With the scaling back of gear. Normalizing everything so fresh level 110 is 7% Weaker than full raid geared player in pvp. With such little disparity between gears there's not much room for getting an advantage SO I feel like people will swarm to stronger classes more so. And there it is. This is why I think removing the pvp gear is shit. I also am going to miss the seperate pvp models. Cmon, season 2 warlock...gtfo. Pvp model weapons i heard of. But I think Blizzard is just caving in for noob scrubs. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET DEMOLISHED IN PVP WHEN YOU DONT PUT IN ANY EFFORT. THAT'S WHAT GIVES YOU A REASON TO STRIVE AND GEAR UP. 7%. Hit 110, oh hey, im as strong as rank 1 arena players. Stupid. Sure, I want prestige tags...thats what we want.

Originally Posted by Woa

I dont like the pvp changes. I would just like to add one thing that I think will happen once the pvp changes go into effect.

With the scaling back of gear. Normalizing everything so fresh level 110 is 7% Weaker than full raid geared player in pvp. With such little disparity between gears there's not much room for getting an advantage SO I feel like people will swarm to stronger classes more so. And there it is. This is why I think removing the pvp gear is shit. I also am going to miss the seperate pvp models. Cmon, season 2 warlock...gtfo. Pvp model weapons i heard of. But I think Blizzard is just caving in for noob scrubs. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET DEMOLISHED IN PVP WHEN YOU DONT PUT IN ANY EFFORT. THAT'S WHAT GIVES YOU A REASON TO STRIVE AND GEAR UP. 7%. Hit 110, oh hey, im as strong as rank 1 arena players. Stupid. Sure, I want prestige tags...thats what we want.

So, basically you are saying that "you are supposed to get demolished" even if you are a skillful pvp player vs unskilled BUT geared people.
Make an effort should not be considered about getting gear but improving your skills.
The rank 1 arena player will always be stronger than the just hit 110 (unskilled) player because of skills.

TL;DR
Pre-Legion: Stronger = Geared
Legion: Stronger = Skillful

You have to laugh at all the people parroting on about the 15%. Most people in WoW do things once the reward is in game. The actual flying patch hasn't even been announced yet! Most people can't see the rush. Most people aren't even playing WoW any more because it's so flipping boring now! Because most people with any sense have quit playing WoW and can't even be bothered with any thing any more because despite wanting to fly what's the bloody point? The expansion is over, the next one has been announced. You can't use the 15% to prove that pro-flyers are a minority because for all you know it's that low because the pro-flyers quit in mass due to being so bored out of their minds.

Originally Posted by Galdor

So, basically you are saying that "you are supposed to get demolished" even if you are a skillful pvp player vs unskilled BUT geared people.
Make an effort should not be considered about getting gear but improving your skills.
The rank 1 arena player will always be stronger than the just hit 110 (unskilled) player because of skills.

TL;DR
Pre-Legion: Stronger = Geared
Legion: Stronger = Skillful

No. That's incorrect. Wow has a very small ceiling for the best buttons at the time. It's always a very easy rotation. You run in, mortal strike blah blah blah key combo. Everyone does the same thing mostly. Now it's not going to be possible to kill 3 people with skill. You kill one person, that person is badly wounded because everyone is the same and they get killed by the third guy because half health. The endless dominoes. Sure a healer will change stuff. But that's kind of cheating now? Have a healer and win, dont have a healer and it's 50 50. It shouldn't be all about skill. You should be rewarded more for playing more. How fun is it going to be when youre 5% more powerful in pvp after 6 months of being 110 and still no stronger. No bigger numbers.....nothing exciting. If you want skill go play RBGs and arenas where everyone has the same gear. People play battlegrounds to get gear and to punish those getting gear. That's what makes it fun. Every once in a while a WSG will be an awesome 5 second to go 3-2 match with a photo finish. otherwise it's people trying to get stronger not testing their skill. Arena and rbg is skill/bot test.

Lol didn't they fire Holinka yet? That noob raped PVP. Please Blizzard kick him out asap. He doesn't know what he's doing.

Going to be amusing to see how much flying really adds to the game. I am one of those who thinks flying detracts more than it adds since you need huge maps to make it not feel like it dwarfs the game, but I try to keep an open mind about game changes.

Vanilla Azeroth was definitely not easier to traverse than later expansions by any means. I think original Azshara is still the high benchmark in awkward for example. But it was still awesome.

Originally Posted by LouCypher

No, it doesn't. All it "proves" is that 15% of the player that have logged in since July 1st have the achievement.

44% of the players that bought the expansion had already quit by June according to the last quarterly call. You can argue their reasons and make more assumptions, but if the forums were any indication when they announced "no flying in Draenor" a lot of people put their money where their fingertips were and unsubscribed because of it. Like me, they haven't come back yet.

Are you joking? You really think people actually quit playing over flying? So when they patch it back in all these people will come back just to fly around?

All that flying would have done for me is made me bored faster and quit sooner.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Mariaelena

You have to laugh at all the people parroting on about the 15%. Most people in WoW do things once the reward is in game. The actual flying patch hasn't even been announced yet! Most people can't see the rush. Most people aren't even playing WoW any more because it's so flipping boring now! Because most people with any sense have quit playing WoW and can't even be bothered with any thing any more because despite wanting to fly what's the bloody point? The expansion is over, the next one has been announced. You can't use the 15% to prove that pro-flyers are a minority because for all you know it's that low because the pro-flyers quit in mass due to being so bored out of their minds.

It shows that flying wasn't THAT important after all. These people quit playing either way, they won't come back just to do some achievements and get the flying skill. Maybe some will but they won't last very long when they find the rest of the game utterly boring that it made them quit.

This is really blowing my mind. How can people be so concerned about this. What exactly are you going to do when you get flying? Fly over draenor once and then quit again the next day? I really do not see how it's more fun to fly over dreanor than to ride through it. You do it once or twice and then you are done. The only thing flying gives is convenience that no one needs, you have garrisons ffs, how much more convenience do you need...

Originally Posted by Novellen

I cannot enjoy this game with my friends because they will not buy this expansion until flying comes back... This is f**king insane. They remove every fun stuff from their game. Do you even remember the "Insert" trick flying upside-down? Ahhh good old days I miss those. :/

GO to Stormwind and Fly upside down to your hearts content.

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Originally Posted by Woa

No. That's incorrect. Wow has a very small ceiling for the best buttons at the time. It's always a very easy rotation. You run in, mortal strike blah blah blah key combo. Everyone does the same thing mostly..

You just described every MMO PvP system in existence.

I love flying, but I haven't completed the achievement. I only have the rep grind left, and I find myself having the hardest time making myself do anything in Tanaan. If I have to fill one more stinking blue bar I might vomit, and running around that stinking jungle is just a pain.

After getting 90% of the way through the flight achievement, it's obvious that Blizzard decided that we can have flight once we've already done everything that might make flight relevant and useful.

Originally Posted by Galdor

TL;DR
Pre-Legion: Stronger = Geared
Legion: Stronger = Skillful

Wrong.

Pre-legion: Stronger = played longer
Legion: Stronger = played longer

Originally Posted by Gilian

Are you joking? You really think people actually quit playing over flying? So when they patch it back in all these people will come back just to fly around?

All that flying would have done for me is made me bored faster and quit sooner.

Essentially, yes I did quit over flying (well, the announcement that it wasn't going to be implemented in WoD or any new zones). There were other issues I was having with the game as well, but the way Bliz announced the no-flying thing, combined with other things they said in that (and later) interviews made me think they had a vastly different view of fun and what a successful expansion looked like (i.e. the sub losses were mainly due to cyclical nature of expansions other than issues with WoD... which I disagree with quite a bit!).

And no, I probably won't be back when flying is introduced because I went to another mmo (FFXIV) which reminds me of the fun I had in BC (I love dungeons!). I could have played WoW for free for the next 2+ years, instead, I'm paying a monthly fee, bought the base game, the expansion, and the signed up for 6 mos. And I'm a 10+ year WoW veteran (and played the RTS games before that).

Originally Posted by Elim Garak

Wrong.

Pre-legion: Stronger = played longer
Legion: Stronger = played longer

Pre-legion: Stronger = played longer = Geared -> Agree! You need the same amount of points to get gear. Then you need time to get points. It doesn't take the same time for each player but you can calculate an average.

Legion: Stronger = played longer = Skillful -> Nope! Some players can be skillful in a short time and other ones never.

the batlle for flying freedom is not yet over!

but the victory is near!

Actually wish we could get an updated version before 6.2.2 drops. Just to see where everyone is/was just before flying is released.