Legion PvP Preview
Lots of changes are coming to Legion PvP:

  • Honor and Conquest currencies are gone!
  • You now earn Honor Points to increase your Honor Level, granting access to more of the PvP talents, as well as Gold and Artifact Power.
  • In PvP instances, you use a stat template for your class and spec, all of your gear is nullified other than the Artifact.
  • Your average item level increases your stat template by a percentage, a 25 item level difference between two players results in a 2.5% difference in stats.
  • These stat templates allow for better tuning, allowing the team to balance for PvP and PvE independently.
  • The strongbox system worked well, so something similar is coming in Legion.
  • You will earn gear from completing battlegrounds and arenas, with quality based on your rating for rated matches.
  • There is no PvP specific gear, so the best players in both PvP and PvE content will be able to earn the best gear.
  • The end-of-season PvP awards are given separately to the top percentages of players in each faction, instead of in relation to the overall player base.
  • There will be shorter and more frequent PvP seasons.
  • Resetting your Honor Level once you reach the cap gives you a Prestige Level.
  • Earning Prestige Levels gives you a badge on your nameplate, unit frames, and scoreboards, as well as a title, wearable faction pennant, Artifact skin, a mount, and pet.
  • Two new arena maps are being added.

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
There are a lot of exciting changes coming for PvP in Legion, and today, we'd like to take the opportunity to share some more details on some of those changes!

The Honor System
In Legion, Honor and Conquest will no longer be currencies that you use to buy gear from vendors. Instead, characters who have reached maximum level will earn Honor Points from competing in Battlegrounds or Arenas, similar to how lower-level players earn Experience Points. As you earn Honor Points, you will increase your Honor Level, up to the maximum Honor Level of 50. Along the way, you'll earn a number of rewards, including Gold, Artifact Power, and a brand new set of PvP-only Honor Talents.




Honor Talents are a special set of Talents that are only active when a player is in a PvP instance (such as a Battleground or Arena) or otherwise engaged in PvP combat, and work in addition to your normal Talents. They are unlocked, one at a time, as your Honor Level increases. So, by Honor Level 10, you'll have one option available in each row, but as you continue to increase your Honor Level, more and more options will become available for you to change up how you approach PvP gameplay.

For example, a Windwalker Monk who has reached Honor Level 10 can choose Rushing Tiger Palm, which lets them use Tiger Palm at range to dash toward and slow their target. Or, a Restoration Druid who has reached Honor Level 46 can take Deep Roots, which makes their Entangling Roots spell no longer break when the target is damaged.

Which Honor Talents you choose can have significant impact on how you play your character, and allow you to tailor your abilities to fit with the type of PvP content you're participating in, or even who you're playing with!

Kicking It Into Gear
So, if you're not earning Honor or Conquest to purchase gear any more, how will your equipment contribute to your character's strength in PvP? The answer is... it won't (much).

In Legion, as soon as you zone into a PvP instance, the stats on your gear will be nullified, and you'll be given a pre-determined set of stats that's uniquely configured for your specialization. Furthermore, any set bonuses, enchants, Legendary bonuses, or trinket effects will be deactivated (although your Artifact and its related Artifact Powers will remain active).

The only contribution your gear will make to your overall power is through a small modifier based on your average item level. For every point that your average item level increases, your pre-determined PvP stats will increase by 0.1%. That means a 25 item level difference between two players only results in a 2.5% difference in stats, compared to the 25% difference it makes today. There’s still a little incentive to improve your gear – a concept we think is important for World of Warcraft – but the benefits are much less pronounced.

These changes bring a couple of major advantages. First of all, it puts everyone participating in organized PvP on a much more even playing field. Obviously, you'll still want to unlock your Honor Talents to reach your full potential, but you'll be able to hold your own in battle in the meantime.

Second, it allows us infinitely more control to make PvP-specific balance tweaks. If one spec's Mastery is too strong in PvP, that's fine – we can just reduce the amount of Mastery they have. If a spec is too easy to kill, we can increase their Stamina. If a healer is having too much trouble keeping teammates alive, we can increase their Spellpower. In short, we can tune classes for PvP in a way that’s exclusively focused on PvP.

Equipping For Battle
Even though your gear has very little impact on the strength of your character in instanced PvP, and you won't be spending Honor or Conquest to buy gear from vendors, we still want you to be able to earn gear through PvP. We really like how the Strongbox system has worked out so far in Random Battlegrounds and Skirmishes, and so we're working on a similar system for Legion, with some major improvements.


In Legion, you’ll earn gear simply by completing Battlegrounds or Arenas. In rated matches, the quality of the gear will be increased based on your rating. Of course, that's in addition to the Honor you'll earn towards unlocking your Honor Talents.

We're also doing away with the idea of PvP-specific gear. Since your stats are pre-determined, trinkets and set bonuses are disabled, and your item level gives only a small increase, we don't need to worry about making you wear a separate set of gear in PvP. So, in Legion, gear is gear, regardless of where you earned it, with no PvP-specific stats or fluctuating item levels, and the best players in both PvP and PvE content will be able to earn the best gear.

'Tis The Season
Legion is also bringing several changes to how PvP seasons, as well as their rewards, will work. Over the years, we've seen the high-end PvP community tend to flock to one faction over the other, even if it's not the faction they'd prefer. Racial balance is an important part of that, but we also think many players tend to simply choose the faction where they feel the best players are.


So, in Legion, we'll be handing out end-of-season PvP awards separately to the top percentages of players in each faction, instead of in relation to the overall player base. That means that, even if you believe one faction to have an advantage over the other, you can still play the one you want to, without having to worry about losing your shot at Gladiator.

On top of that, we're planning to have more frequent, shorter PvP seasons. Since your Honor Level doesn't reset between seasons, and the effectiveness of gear has been greatly diminished, you'll be able to start competing at near-maximum potential immediately, instead of having to wait several weeks while you collect a new set of gear. That means we can have more PvP seasons, which means rewards can be handed out more regularly.

All For The Prestige
However, once you've reached Honor Level 50, you'll have a tough choice to make. You'll be given the option to Prestige, which will reset your Honor Level back to 1, and once again restricting access to higher-level Honor Talents. However, in return, you'll increase your Prestige Level, which grants access to a number of other rewards, including:

  • A badge, based on your Prestige Level, which appears on the scoreboard in Battlegrounds and Arenas, as well as on your nameplate and unit frame.
  • A title, also based on your Prestige Level.
  • A wearable faction pennant
  • A new appearance for your Artifact
  • A unique mount and pet


The higher your Prestige Level, the better rewards you'll have access to. We see the Prestige system as a great way for players who aren't interested in pursuing higher rating, but still enjoy PvP, to have their own unique rewards to chase after.

A Change of Scenery
There's one more exciting addition we’d like to share today: Legion is bringing two brand-new maps to the Arena.


Located in the fortress of Black Rook Hold, this arena features a large statue in the center, as well as three alcoves to the sides. Access to those alcoves is restricted by a series of gates, which will open and close randomly as the match continues. When the gates are closed, you can use them to hide out of line of sight of your opponents… just be prepared for them to open again moments later!

Also in development is another arena located in the forests of Val’sharah. When you first enter this arena, you’ll be encased in a dome of vines. When the match starts, those vines will retreat, leaving the starting area exposed to the rest of the arena. In the center, you’ll find three statues, which can be used to break line of sight. However, those statues are located very close to each other, so you’ll need to keep moving if you want to play defensively.

We're very excited about all of the improvements coming to PvP in World of Warcraft: Legion, and we hope you are too! We look forward to seeing you on the fields of battle.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Legion PvP Preview started by chaud View original post
Comments 217 Comments
  1. Palantis's Avatar
    So I've generally refrained from posting on this site, but I feel there is a lot of confusion circulating in this forum that need to be addressed. The biggest thing to understand and remember: we do not have the correct context to accurately assess the impact these changes will have on gameplay. Many of you are assessing these changes based on the current system in place, which greatly diminishes the reality of our concerns. Take a deep breath and try not to jump the gun.

    Before I begin my short assessment, here is my PvP resume:
    • Season 1 - Season 3 Glad: Druid, Warrior, Mage
    • Season 4: Break
    • Season 5 Glad: Paladin
    • Season 6 - 8 Rank One: Paladin
    • Season 9 Glad: Paladin
    • Season 10 - Present: Retired from competitive arena, mostly theorycraft and coach.

    In addition, I was the Co-GM of Treehuggers, the biggest PvP guild in the world from late s6 - s7 and was sponsored by Skill-Capped. Hopefully this provides some context, so let's begin!

    Honor Talents are a special set of Talents that are only active when a player is in a PvP instance (such as a Battleground or Arena) or otherwise engaged in PvP combat, and work in addition to your normal Talents.
    • Some people in this forum are concerned with the diminished power that the partial removal of gear brings. However, many are forgetting that PvP talents provide an important power curve to your character. While the numbers haven't been crunched yet, after looking through the talents, new players will still be at a disadvantage in comparison to veteran players. However, it hopefully won't be similar to the drastic difference we see today. Alternatively, it could end up being that the previous power curve that existed due to gear has been shifted to talents. We will have to see how the balance pans out, but there will most definitely be a difference between fresh characters and pvp-leveled characters.
    • Based on the wording, world PvP is also subject to the new PvP system. So mythic raiders will be at a disadvantage if they have not earned their PvP talents. Many mythic raiders, initially, might not have the time nor interest to grind PvP, baring obvious outliers. Assuming that the PvP grind to earn our PvP talents will take some time, there shouldn't be much concern in the short term. I will address the long term concern once there is more info available, as too many factors are missing at the moment.

    In Legion, as soon as you zone into a PvP instance, the stats on your gear will be nullified, and you'll be given a pre-determined set of stats that's uniquely configured for your specialization. Furthermore, any set bonuses, enchants, Legendary bonuses, or trinket effects will be deactivated (although your Artifact and its related Artifact Powers will remain active).
    • Based on the wording of this quote, gear does not appear to be nullified in World PvP combat and your PvP stat template does not activate. However, it'll be logical to assume that the PvP stat template will activate during PvP combat, just like our PvP talent system. However, this is just speculation and we still need more information. If our PvP stat template doesn't activate in PvP combat outside of PvP instances, there MIGHT be a reason to be concerned about world PvP. We will have to wait and see, no sense in pouring energy into this just yet.

    In Legion, you’ll earn gear simply by completing Battlegrounds or Arenas. In rated matches, the quality of the gear will be increased based on your rating. Of course, that's in addition to the Honor you'll earn towards unlocking your Honor Talents.

    We're also doing away with the idea of PvP-specific gear. Since your stats are pre-determined, trinkets and set bonuses are disabled, and your item level gives only a small increase, we don't need to worry about making you wear a separate set of gear in PvP. So, in Legion, gear is gear, regardless of where you earned it, with no PvP-specific stats or fluctuating item levels, and the best players in both PvP and PvE content will be able to earn the best gear.
    • Based on the wording, unranked Battlegrounds or Arenas will provide a base type of gear that does not scale in quality. Speculation: Meaning, you probably won't be able to earn heroic(normal raid) or higher level gear. Probably will earn LFR level gear.
    • Ranked Battlegrounds or Arenas will provide gear rewards that are consistent/comparable with your rating earned. Meaning, the higher rated you are, the greater in quality of gear you will receive. How they decide what rating threshold earns what gear quality (LFR/Normal/Heroic/Mythic) is unknown at the moment.
    • Since they stated that the best players in both PvP and PvE content will be able to earn the best gear, PvP players will not have to become raiders to compete in PvP. Many people on this forum are devaluing the challenges of mythic raiding. The majority of the WoW community will not have access to mythic gear. Concurrently, becoming a top tier PvP player has its own difficulties and is similarly out of reach. In my experience, for the majority of the PvP community, the slight difference in item level that they are providing is not enough to tip the scale for most people. Many of the passive or on-proc advantages of gear, in the past, provided the edge in combat for people. However, with the removal of flagrant power differences, combat should become more "fair." Many people are not good enough to exploit the minimal numeric advantage that blizzard looks to provide with this change. Most of the time, it's clear mechanical or macro level errors that cause defeat. I would suggest you do not place your energy on min/maxing and look to improve your execution during combat.

    We simply need to remember that everything is still early in development and not much info is available. As many have stated, this is an RPG, so some level of gear acquisition is warranted. However, this system provides an environment that allows for most people to enjoy the game and compete while striving to earn BiS gear.
  1. Fkiolaris's Avatar
    All I see from the announcement and having a look at the (incomplete) pvp trees is that the gear grind will be a talent tree-grind, simple as that. You get your % power increases (aka higher stats) and you get your special abilities/modification of existing abilities (aka tier set bonuses). How much of a grind it will be and how much of a difference it will be between someone completely new and someone with the pvp tree fully unlocked, it remains to be seen.
  1. Ryuushima's Avatar
    Your average item level increases your stat template by a percentage, a 25 item level difference between two players results in a 2.5% difference in stats.

    This is BADDDDDD, sure it's a small diffference but it will mean that the best gear will almost certainly be obtained via raiding. RIP wow pvp if that's the case...ah who am I kidding RIP wow pvp to start with. Way too many games have proper PvP without racial nonsense or gear nonsense but according to blizzard it is not possible LEL.
  1. Xuvial's Avatar
    So it only took Blizzard...what, 6 fucking years to realize that a full separation needed to happen between PvE and PvP. People were heavily suggesting this kind of PvP stat-normalization back in WotLK.

    Now Blizzard finally listen to those suggestions, after over half the population has left. Fucking hell.

    I guess better late than never.
  1. Destructus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuushima View Post
    Your average item level increases your stat template by a percentage, a 25 item level difference between two players results in a 2.5% difference in stats.

    This is BADDDDDD, sure it's a small diffference but it will mean that the best gear will almost certainly be obtained via raiding.
    You can get mythic level gear from pvping if you have a high rating with the new system. I would guess the equivalent of 2200+ arena rating needed for mythic ilvl to drop from instanced pvp.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by solarfallz View Post
    The transformation of WoW PVP into a completely segregated minigame is now complete. Completely separate mechanics, talents, stat templates. PVP is no longer part of WoW, it is now something completely different existing under the same name. And for what? Idiots complaining on the forums who didn't want to obtain gear? People who think this will be some kind of "high skill esports" game? I pity anyone who is clueless enough to support these garbage changes.

    On the bright side, I cant wait to see the initial stream of terribles trying to PVP again because they genuinely convinced themselves that it was gear holding them back and not their lack of ability.
    I see all of this as a good thing, now all the ones crying will get met with "git gud" and rightfully so.
  1. chillshock's Avatar
    That system sounds like so much shit. Sorry to say it, but it sounds like it is designed for people who don't want to think for themselves. Stat templates, deactivated procs and effects, ... So... basically NOTHING will surprise anyone in pvp anymore? Great! That's going to be so much fun! MEH!
  1. killbill's Avatar
    i am curious with removal of pvp gears, what are we looking forward to each new season? Usually I get to buy previous conquest gears.
  1. mmocb54112e783's Avatar
    Does anybody have an issue that it's a completely different game post-Legion? Did you sign up for the current PVP? If so, you might be at a loss and feel it, it's not the game you played but a completely different one. How does that make you feel? For some reason I feel hollowed out and saddened. Oh well. It's not the end of the world but this situation is still a further farewell to the WoW we once knew and played and loved.
  1. meathead's Avatar
    lmfao!this is the same system that rift started to use in thier new x-pac.guess what happened?the game lost its pvp player base and killed the game = dead servers.

    you guys need to note that this gear boosting/scaling will only work insides wfs in open world raid gear will be king,just like in rift.you will earn gear by winning a bg/wf juts like in rift by that gear will be trash compaired to raid gear.the devs will tell you its only a small difference "but even a small one matters" and thats only in bgs.like i said open world will die off as raiders will have the best gear.

    this whole artifact weapon is nothing more then the devs forcing everyone to use the same weapons.if everyone has the same weapon nothing op'ed,but outside of that raid gear armour will be bis across the board.

    go read rifts forums and you can see the hate the players have for the game now,the devs say there is no pvp or pve gear now just gear and the best gear even in wf bgs is raid gear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by killbill View Post
    i am curious with removal of pvp gears, what are we looking forward to each new season? Usually I get to buy previous conquest gears.
    just wait until a full raid geared players two shots your ass in open world pvp,then you will be really pissed. raid gear will be what 2.5% better then bg gear inside wfs,thats what they said right?gear gap!open world it be even worse.
  1. GMZohar1's Avatar
    I for one do not like the strong boxes from PvP, all I do is PvP and from day 1 WoD on all my characters my % of getting gear from them is by far lower than anyone else.. Say you win 20 BGs in a row most players would get around 10-15 items from the lockboxes.. Me, regardless which character would get about 2-3 items.. Don't matter if I top the charts or not same %.. My friends were gearing alts while I was still trying to gear my main lol..... So I am not looking forward to that system, as for the predetermined stats, that is pretty annoying too cause once again you will not be able to play your class the way you want just like in WoD... Oh you like Haste? Well since you play this class your predetermined stats are mostly Mastery and Crit, so deal with it... LOL yay..................
  1. Kopykat's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    you guys need to note that this gear boosting/scaling will only work insides wfs in open world raid gear will be king,just like in rift.you will earn gear by winning a bg/wf juts like in rift by that gear will be trash compaired to raid gear.the devs will tell you its only a small difference "but even a small one matters" and thats only in bgs.like i said open world will die off as raiders will have the best gear.

    just wait until a full raid geared players two shots your ass in open world pvp,then you will be really pissed. raid gear will be what 2.5% better then bg gear inside wfs,thats what they said right?gear gap!open world it be even worse.
    All those raiders aren't going to have pvp talents unlocked. that's the whole point of it.
    and they clearly say that that the pvp system (the spec template and talents) will also work in open world pvp. So, no, the maximum advantage a raider can have is 2.5% better stats, which by themselves won't 1 shot anyone. On top that, the non raider will have pvp talents to use against the raider.
  1. Woa's Avatar
    The pvp sounds terrible. You have no incentive to pvp. Better gear? Nope. Not ever going to hit anyone harder than X percent of their health. That's not fun. So people cannot get a gear advantage they'll just all swarm OP classes. I enjoy crushing noobs and being rewarded for more work. Why pvp if im not ever going to get stronger. You will most likely be able to unlock all of your pvp talents within a week and those aren't going to make you OP to anyone. I'll just roll whatever is top damage in bgs and whats facerolling me in arenas. Thanks Blizzard, this is what we wanted. 25% right now feels fine. You can't go from 11 expansions of being stronger in pvp to just making everything rock paper scissors. Everything. You can't ever be a beast and 1v3 anyone because you had awesome gear you worked for. You're just going to kill one and then almost be dead because youre equally as powerful as this dippshit who never pvp's but can hit the buttons that light up.

    What a joke.
  1. kartman2k's Avatar
    I dont understand why everyones complaining about this system. right now our pvp system is fucked since gear makes a landslide of a difference. top end pvp doesnt change since everyone will be playing with the best gear anyways. this change doesnt affect them at all. this only affects how new comers will pvp since now they wont get roflstomped when they first pvp. a great change in my book, opens up the possibility of newcomers in pvp, great control of balance changes, and while not impacting top tier pvpers.

    the only downside to this would be that people who are pvp geared now will no longer curb stomp those new to the pvp scene. Honestly, at that point its not even pvp that they liked, it was just the fact that they liked 3 shotting people.

    Props to blizz and looking forward to legion pvp
  1. Woa's Avatar
    No, now it's just who stuns and interrupts the most. Nothing else matters. World of Interrupts.
  1. Imperial3's Avatar
    World of Warcraft: Legion Ops 2, coming 2017.
  1. Derzorvadur's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Woa View Post
    The pvp sounds terrible. You have no incentive to pvp. Better gear? Nope. Not ever going to hit anyone harder than X percent of their health. That's not fun. So people cannot get a gear advantage they'll just all swarm OP classes. I enjoy crushing noobs and being rewarded for more work. Why pvp if im not ever going to get stronger. You will most likely be able to unlock all of your pvp talents within a week and those aren't going to make you OP to anyone. I'll just roll whatever is top damage in bgs and whats facerolling me in arenas. Thanks Blizzard, this is what we wanted. 25% right now feels fine. You can't go from 11 expansions of being stronger in pvp to just making everything rock paper scissors. Everything. You can't ever be a beast and 1v3 anyone because you had awesome gear you worked for. You're just going to kill one and then almost be dead because youre equally as powerful as this dippshit who never pvp's but can hit the buttons that light up.

    What a joke.
    So you're basically the kind of player that most of us have been pointing out as the only ones who will hate this system. You don't want a competitive environment in your PvP play, you just want to two shot the new players or people trying to gear up an alt for teh luls. Just because you started at the start of the expansion doesn't entitle you to making the experience for someone who is new to the game/coming back from a hiatus/gearing an alt unnecessarily painful. You want to complain about not being capable of going 1v3 because they are some " dipshit who never pvp's " and is in similar gear as you, really?.. Today idiots can afk grind BG's while watching Netflix and end up in the same gear " power wise " as those who worked their way to gladiator status. That system isn't changing, it's just being shifted over to the talent system so it doesn't unnecessarily punish new players from assholes like you who just want to curb stomp them.

    You want to go big dick and two shot bitches that have literally no chance against you to make yourself feel powerful? Just go bank people leveling like the rest of the cancerous plebs and stop trying to justify your actions by saying you earned the right to do so because you started playing from the start of the expansion.
  1. Killawar's Avatar
    Never in my life have I made an MMO-champ account. Normally I skim the comments, patch notes, and move on, but seeing this horrible excuse for lazy PvP balance has... "upset" me. Why? Well, let's take a look:

    In PvE, gear is used as an incentive. Why? In WoW big numbers are sought after (or in some cases, small depending on placement IE 1st place, etc). Point is, it's a competition and gear serves as the reward system by giving players more "numbers" to work with. In this example, they're essentially nullifying this kind of reward for PvP or in other words, they're abolishing that same sense of numeric accomplishment (big numbers) a PvE player gets from PvP. Why? From a designer standpoint it allows them to be lazy. Yep, laziness.

    "But that's UNFAIR to lower geared people!"

    First of all, this argument is that of a six year old. Where is fair? It doesn't exist. Ever. Class imbalances will always be an unsolvable problem, as people will always find something to complain about, which is in essence, "fair" (an opinion based on an emotional motive). Period. There is no such thing as fair. What's effectively being done is eliminating the reward for obtaining gear for PvP'ers. It's not about having to have a better piece of gear than someone else to get an advantage - no! It's about that numerical accomplishment (seeing bigger numbers, as silly as it sounds) regardless of how you get it. PvE and PvP has had the same kind of "feel" when achieving gear, the means are simply different. In this expansion they're essentially eliminating that kind of satisfaction from PvP which, as a result, eliminates much of the enjoyment from it period (the reward), not to mention the different gear sets are being completely abolished as well.

    "Well then what about the new players getting stomped in PvP by people with higher gear quality?!"

    Simple. You know how raids have a gear requirement? Apply a similar working to that of PvP: get matched with people around your item level. If you want to challenge yourself, allow people to queue against players with higher item levels for no additional reward. That way there's no incentive for people to AFK in harder BG's and the players that simply want to get better will have that opportunity to play against people who have better gear and may be better players in general.

    "Well, you shouldn't have to have better gear for beating players if you're already better than them!"

    Then nor should raiders have to have better gear for thwarting heroic/mythic bosses, but they do. Why? Because "winning" is only part of the sensation of overcoming an obstacle as are looks. What people are really after in WoW is practicality of their things. Think about it: if there really was no point in obtaining better gear, why would one party keep this aspect while the other is tossed aside? If there's a minute difference in gear for PvP, why not PvE? I'll tell you why: because PvP is once again, being seated in the second class. Sure, in theory this sounds fine, but that's again, theory. Practically, it's exchanging enjoyment and game depth ("Oh, look at that weapon! It's bad ass! I really want it! Look at all these pieces of gear! So cool!") for developer laziness.
  1. Not A Cat's Avatar
    Finally holy shit

    I mean, I'm also of the extreme opinion that gear should have NO effect in PvP. Everyone gets the same amount of cumulative points for their stats and everyone gets the same PVP talent choices. I don't think character progression has a place in PvP. If anything is progressing, it's the player's skill in that class in a PvP environment. You shouldn't be penalized because someone played longer, you should be penalized when someone can play their class better than you can play yours, and there's the incentive to get better. Kind of like arena tournament servers, everything is available to you, but what matters is how well you use it.

    But I doubt they'd make such an extreme change, so I'm happy that they're even making a slight effort in that direction.
  1. Killawar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Higuchi View Post
    Finally holy shit

    I mean, I'm also of the extreme opinion that gear should have NO effect in PvP. Everyone gets the same amount of cumulative points for their stats and everyone gets the same PVP talent choices. I don't think character progression has a place in PvP. If anything is progressing, it's the player's skill in that class in a PvP environment. You shouldn't be penalized because someone played longer, you should be penalized when someone can play their class better than you can play yours, and there's the incentive to get better. Kind of like arena tournament servers, everything is available to you, but what matters is how well you use it.

    But I doubt they'd make such an extreme change, so I'm happy that they're even making a slight effort in that direction.




    Then the same can be said for PvE. Why does PvE gear increase in stats? Shouldn't it then be who can abide by raid mechanics the best? No. That's garbage. Why? Because part of the reward for doing things isn't just an achievement. It's gear.

    The same argument can be made for PvE. If PvP doesn't have numeric gear awards, nor should PvE have them. Why? "Because the satisfaction of beating the boss should be enough of an incentive!"

    It's garbage logic.
  1. Not A Cat's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Killawar View Post
    Then the same can be said for PvE. Why does PvE gear increase in stats? Shouldn't it then be who can abide by raid mechanics the best? No. That's garbage. Why? Because part of the reward for doing things isn't just an achievement. It's gear.

    The same argument can be made for PvE. If PvP doesn't have numeric gear awards, nor should PvE have them. Why? "Because the satisfaction of beating the boss should be enough of an incentive!"

    It's garbage logic.
    Well I don't think PvE and PvP are the same, nor should they be the same in my opinion. I see PvP as purely competitive whereas I see PvE as purely co-op (with however many people you raid with). I want gear so I can kill the next boss which is more powerful. PvP kind of has that but to a much lesser extent if you look at rating. Okay you stomp the floor with these low rated players, you move up in rank. You then lose to slightly better players so you can't progress. Right now the current option is to keep at it until you get better gear to beat them and move up in rank. I don't think that should be how it works. I would rather have it be that you lose and don't move up in rank, figure out what you did wrong that could have made you lose, then work on getting better at PvP until you can win and progress that way.

    I don't think it's garbage logic, I think it all depends on how you look at the two forms of gameplay.

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