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Legion - Max Camera Distance Reduction
The latest Legion build reduced the amount you can zoom out with the camera.


Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
This is one of this changes that we realize will be intensely unpopular with the group of players that has used console/WTF CVars to increase camera zoom beyond what the UI slider permits. For everyone else, they probably won't see what the big deal is, since it's removing a hidden option that most never used. But for those who are accustomed to an increased max zoom, it's changing the way you're experiencing the game in a way that feels restrictive and simply worse. So why would we do that?

In a broad range of gaming genres (from RTS to Action RPG), being able to zoom out and see more of the world around you provides an objective advantage in the form of information. Due to that competitive advantage, camera-unlocking or increased zoom distance are features commonly found in third-party hacks for a variety of games. Whatever the maximum allowed, that's what competitive players will use in order to maximize performance, even at the expense of the game's overall look and feel.

We strongly believe that there needs to be parity in this area between players who are using the default UI and those who have addons or knowledge of hidden console variables. One option was certainly to just allow the in-game slider to go all the way up to the CVar hardcap. But that scale is beyond the one around which the game was designed at its core. The development team builds the world, its art, its combat mechanics, and other interactions, around the base UI experience and scale. At the 3.4-CVar zoom level, your heroic Warcraft avatar takes up about as much screen-space as one of the dozens of marines you might control in a game of Starcraft.

Basically all of us started out playing WoW at the UI-enabled zoom level, and fell in love with that world enough that we now find ourselves here posting on an expansion beta forum discussing its future. At some point, we saw a raid video and wondered how they could see so much of the field at once, or we saw a forum post or got a helpful tip from another player, and learned that if you typed "/console CameraDistanceMaxFactor 4" you could zoom out way more, and we never looked back. But was that original experience bad, or have we just grown accustomed to something different?

There may also be a bit of hyperbole in the discussion around the change. This is a screenshot I just took with the max UI-selectable zoom settings in the current Legion build: http://i.imgur.com/e8vFT6t.jpg

I'm not sure it's fair to say that this level of zoom entails your character dominating the screen, or removes any awareness of nearby threats.

Finally, why did this happen suddenly now, late in the beta cycle, seemingly without any communication? Honestly, the intent was for the change to have been in place from early alpha onwards. I believe that what happened was that one of the CVars (CameraDistanceMaxFactor?) was clamped from the start, but a second CVar (CameraDistanceMax?) was overlooked. That issue was entered and tracked as a bug, and was just fixed recently. As a development team, at this point we're fixing up to 2000 Legion bugs a week, and it's not always obvious which player-facing build will contain a particular one of those fixes. This clearly wasn't something we ever imagined could just be swept under the carpet.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Legion - Max Camera Distance Reduction started by chaud View original post
Comments 796 Comments
  1. Vorality's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Redblade View Post
    Seems you like comparing apples with oranges too...what a surprise.
    Comparing game balance with game balance, just of a different degree. I've switched to the extended max camera distance. It's AMAZING...and I definitely see why people are upset. But it's ridiculous being able to see this much. It makes a lot of fights much easier to take part in (Iron Reaver, Manno, Archi) to name a few that I've noticed major significance.
  1. The-Real-Link's Avatar
    I certainly understand why some prefer max camera distance. I've personally found the vanilla distance enough even for raiding so it won't happen to affect me much. But I do understand the feeling of disgust and betrayal for something existing in the game for so long being removed so abruptly.
  1. Unzipped's Avatar
    They're removing more things from the game than they're adding at this point.
    Removing interface options such as toggle hide helm/cloak, etc., unnecessary ability pruning, and now this.
    It seems like with every new expansion they're taking one step forward and two steps back.
  1. Medbh's Avatar
    Ok I am in big trouble and I think they might have made it so I can't play. I scroll out my camera because of simulation sickness. (Motion sickness basically and was discovered when they used the flight sims for pilots. Real thing look it up) I have to do all sorts of things so I don't get sick and have used max distance for 10 years now. One of the reasons I can't play the other mmo's where you have to swing your camera around to target. First person shooters...not a chance. Can't even watch my son play them for very long without getting sick. And I mean fighting off throwing up sick. Sad thing is already bought Legion and I bet they won't refund if I can't play due to this change. Sigh If anyone knows of another game I can move onto after all these years would love suggestions. This really sucks.
  1. mmoc5461ee9f4c's Avatar
    ...doing things for the sake of doing things...
  1. Tenjen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Unzipped View Post
    They're removing more things from the game than they're adding at this point.
    Removing interface options such as toggle hide helm/cloak, etc., unnecessary ability pruning, and now this.
    It seems like with every new expansion they're taking one step forward and two steps back.
    the helm/cloak/shoulder is just going to the wardrobe. its not a removed option at all and it makes more sense for it to be placed as it will be in legion.

    Ability pruning is necessary as they no longer have a place in the new changes and systems. As with every expansion. "one step forward two steps back" please dont misquote and misapply this cliche. Not that much can be expected since you started your post with hyperbole.

    things need to be adjusted for an expansion.



    *****

    it is unfortunate for those who are light sensitive to spell effects being much closer and those with motion sensitivity though

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shudder View Post
    It did. They said flying was gone. Never coming back. We freaked out and they brought it back but you have to unlock it.
    They said. right at the start, hell before the start, that they might bring flying back when the expansion had run its course. Which is exactly what they did. If players "freak out" had actually swayed them, they wouldnt have waited so far into the expansion. The point was to have people experience the leveling content and zones from the intended perspective without skipping. Far into the expansion, this becomes a mute point as almost everyone has done so. Which was brought up by them as a point.
  1. Loaky's Avatar
    I like the change.

    I don't get why people are so upset...it is just camera zoom!
  1. mmocc1f11a099b's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Medbh View Post
    Ok I am in big trouble and I think they might have made it so I can't play. I scroll out my camera because of simulation sickness.[...]This really sucks.
    Sorry to hear that but I am quite sure if you write to Blizzard support and state your problem then they shall refund your money, this as long as you do it now, not when expansion has launched already and you played it. If you bought game on their website then you have higher chance for refund. You won't know untill you ask. Besides maybe they will enable a setting to have things old way or someone make an addon for it?
  1. Magemaer's Avatar
    So it is now that they start going full WoD, i mean, full retard.
    Let's wait for bullshit coming next weeks.
  1. Medbh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Loaky View Post
    I like the change.

    I don't get why people are so upset...it is just camera zoom!
    Ok it is nice you like being zoomed in but for those, and there are a lot of people who get sick look at the WoW forum post, that don't have a choice to make it so they like it not very fair. In my case flat out might not be able to play. How I found out about the code for max distance is because a bunch of people were working on ways to make it so I could continue playing. It took a little bit of working but we got it and I have been able to play since. If not for that feature I would have had to quit years ago. So it would be nice just to have the choice.
  1. Magemaer's Avatar
    Why WoW devs have to be such cunts? "You think you do, but you don't". Fuck you, asshole.
  1. Fabinas's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post

    They said. right at the start, hell before the start, that they might bring flying back when the expansion had run its course. Which is exactly what they did. If players "freak out" had actually swayed them, they wouldnt have waited so far into the expansion. The point was to have people experience the leveling content and zones from the intended perspective without skipping. Far into the expansion, this becomes a mute point as almost everyone has done so. Which was brought up by them as a point.
    This is so wrong on every aspect as a summary of the flight fiasco, i will kindly ask you to gtfo with your fanboyism and not try to contribute anymore. It's unlikely anything you say can be of any use.
  1. kamuimac's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    You lose field of view. You can see almost as much right in front of you, and if you play with your camera angled in front of your character like this:

    https://gyazo.com/b5f90020be4556388beed6d33e001025

    You'll barely notice the difference *in front of you*. You do, however, lose "field of view", because everything behind you and to your sides are getting cut off greatly. As you can see in my chat, the max distance is set to 28.5 which is the current proposed "max". My camera is panned down BEHIND my character to get a further view into the distance. Here's how it looks from what a raider will usually choose, a top-down view pointed slightly ahead:

    https://gyazo.com/9f0efc4f8b38c00377e7f3d5deb51449

    And here's both views with the current max:

    Angled behind me to get a further view:
    https://gyazo.com/3106cfab400a29b017cf5ff45251a056


    Top down:
    https://gyazo.com/e5eab2626520ffbf2b5a902c79825345

    As you can see - my distance is not the issue. My back and side angles are. That field of view is entirely lost on their new proposed max zoom, and it is fucking infuriatingly dumb. So while I can still theoretically see all around me, I lose field of view in everything to the side and behind me, while I retain it in front of me.

    and blizzard addresed it in their response - this option gave you and many others unfair advantage that wasnt planned to be in game - they are simply remving the way to cheat the view vision that you should never had in first place - will it limit you ? ofc it will but it should be limited as they intended game to be played this way.
  1. Garlane's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Loaky View Post
    I like the change.

    I don't get why people are so upset...it is just camera zoom!
    Yes it's just camera zoom, just as motion sickness is just motion sickness that prevents players from enjoying games. I had to use cheat engine to increase the camera distance and FOV in TW3 in order to not vomit. I'm using the max distance zoom cvar in the same way in WOW, gotta love those flavor things that got huge negative implications for parts of the player base.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    the helm/cloak/shoulder is just going to the wardrobe. its not a removed option at all and it makes more sense for it to be placed as it will be in legion.

    Ability pruning is necessary as they no longer have a place in the new changes and systems. As with every expansion. "one step forward two steps back" please dont misquote and misapply this cliche. Not that much can be expected since you started your post with hyperbole.

    things need to be adjusted for an expansion.



    *****

    it is unfortunate for those who are light sensitive to spell effects being much closer and those with motion sensitivity though

    - - - Updated - - -



    They said. right at the start, hell before the start, that they might bring flying back when the expansion had run its course. Which is exactly what they did. If players "freak out" had actually swayed them, they wouldnt have waited so far into the expansion. The point was to have people experience the leveling content and zones from the intended perspective without skipping. Far into the expansion, this becomes a mute point as almost everyone has done so. Which was brought up by them as a point.
    Dude they fucking said no more flying, you are wrong get the fuck over it.
  1. Howard Moon's Avatar
    We strongly believe that there needs to be parity in this area between players who are using the default UI and those who have addons or knowledge of hidden console variables.
    In other words, it is unfair for those who are unable to use Google? /Facepalm
  1. globenstine's Avatar
    I hope they give me a refund if this change is not reverted. while not making it "unplayable" it does make it unenjoyable which is the ONE thing a game should NEVER EVER be.
  1. Howard Moon's Avatar
    So they are capping the zoom distance because it provides an "unfair advantage". I wonder tho whom? Everyone who plays the game even slightly competitively - be it in PvE or PvP - already knows about these macros since ages ago.
  1. Scroolooseuk's Avatar
    I personally did not use it but i can see why people are upset. The "Invert mouse" option is something i use for every game. I can imagine how frustrated I would be if it was removed with no warning. I have refused to play some MMO's simply because they did not have this option at launch!
  1. mmoc965ab6a282's Avatar
    Could someone explain to me WTF is going on?

    I said so many times... This company are not able to learn. And they are ignoring their customers.
    This expansion will be a bigger fail than WoD was. Too much RNG is able to destroy everything in an MMO.
    How many things were removed from the game? Someone should make a list about that.

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