Gamescom Developer Interview, Legion World Quests Preview, Blue Posts, DLC #548

Templar Patch 2.4.2 Greater Rift Build

One Night in Karazhan Compendium - The Expansion as Rated by the Community

Upcoming Balance Update - August 24th

Eichenwalde is now Available on the PTR, New Reinhardt Legendary Skins

Gamescom Developer Interview
Sloot did one final interview with Watcher at Gamescom.


Release Times
  • Mythic dungeons will be closed until the first raid reset of each region, so EU won't be able to powerlevel and get in some clears.
  • The expansion launches at 12:01 AM PT in North America.

Artifacts
  • The Artifact will be relevant throughout Legion. There will be good reasons to get Artifact Power and things to spend Artifact Power on.
  • An easy change to make later in the expansion would be to increase the cap on Artifact Traits so that you can put more points in and keep spending Artifact Power.
  • Artifact Power is a nice consistent reward with no RNG, so you end the night stronger than you started, even if you didn't get any great item drops.
  • The Artifact Knowledge cap will likely be increased down the road, but that is still to be determined.

Currency
  • Ancient Mana remaining relevant will be touched on when the team shares more Patch 7.1 details in a couple weeks.
  • The patch has additional outdoor world content in Suramar, continuing the story and quest line.

Mythic+ Dungeons
  • For the average player, there is an effective cap on Mythic+ loot, which is in the form of keystones. Those aren't infinite and everyone only gets one per week per character, so the typical experience will be that people aren't infinity running Mythic+ dungeons.
  • Being able to loot an additional keystone from the chest at the end of the Mythic+ dungeon is a bug. You should only be able to get one per week.
  • There are three ways to get a keystone: Killing a regular Mythic dungeon end boss, looting your weekly jackpot chest in your order hall, or looting the chest at the end of a Mythic+ dungeon run. You should only be able to get one per week total.

Trinkets
  • Trinkets are one of the coolest and potentially most interesting items that the team has to work with, so they would feel bad going with boring and more passive trinkets. In Legion effort was put in to make trinkets more interesting.
  • The delta between a raid's DPS during the first 30 seconds of a fight and their damage for the rest of it is bigger than it should be.
  • A cooldown was added so that you can't use two of the on-use trinkets at once. Allowing the use of both at once makes them harder to balance as well.

Addon Changes and Raid Mechanics
  • The design for bosses in Hellfire Citadel probably wouldn't have been different if the addon change was made earlier in Warlords.
  • One of the concerns raised by players is boss mechanics that are designed around addons and otherwise impossible.
  • Internal testing for raids is done without custom boss mods for each boss and the mechanics. The bosses can be beat with the stock UI.
  • There are three levels to a mechanic:
    • Tactical complexity - How easy is it to figure out the right answer to this mechanic? This mostly only matters to the top guilds in the world, as by the time most guilds get to a boss this problem has been solved. Four Horseman in Vanilla was all about the tactical complexity.
    • Execution - How hard is this mechanic to execute correctly or perfectly? How hard is it to dodge all of the things, spread, not get hit by things.
    • Failure - How punishing is it when you make a mistake? This is one of the biggest things that can be tuned. Kromog in Blackrock Foundry was mostly done by players with an addon that assisted them. This leads to players thinking that the fight would be impossible without an addon. If it ended up being too hard, the team would have seen that people were having a hard time and changed the tuning. They could have added more time for you to run to the hands, reduced their health a little bit (especially on Mythic), or other tuning so that the actual difficulty in terms of how many wipes it takes to beat the boss doesn't change. Actually playing the dynamic game of musical chairs is more interesting and fun from a cooperative raid perspective than running to a specific point on the ground, assuming equal difficulty. Removing the capability from the addons should lead to a better experience for players.
  • The addon changes won't affect things outside instances, buff/debuff tracking, and things like TomTom.
  • The reason this change wasn't in at launch was the team putting in the extra effort to make sure the other addons wouldn't be broken.

Professions
  • You can start on your profession at skill level 1 in Broken Isles.
  • Leveling your profession gives you more efficiency.
  • You also need a certain skill level in a profession to get the profession world quests.
  • It is easier than before to change professions, as you can relearn the Broken Isle recipes that you had before.
  • The team doesn't want people constantly changing professions to do all of the world quests.
  • Professions will be kept up to date throughout the expansion.


Legion Preview - World Quests
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In World of Warcraft: Legion, questing at level 110 comes in new variations called World Quests.

The new World Quest system represents a major change from how player characters used to make regular progression daily or weekly. In Legion, you’ll find the war taking place on multiple fronts—all over the Broken Isles, with a wide variety of ways you can participate in pushing back the invaders, as well as growing your character and being a big part of the story of Warcraft.

Getting Started
First and foremost, World Quests are available to players starting at level 110. When you reach 110, you’ll be called upon to prove that you’ve reached Friendly reputation with the five primary factions of the Broken Isles, you’ll receive your Flight Master’s Whistle, and World Quests will begin to appear all over your map.


The Flight Master’s Whistle is one of the most-useful items around—when you activate it, you’ll be (almost) instantly whisked away to the nearest known flight master. More than ever before, you’ll want to get to know all of the flight masters in every zone!

Times and Places

The primary zones in which you’ll find World Quests are: Azsuna, Highmountain, Stormheim, Suramar, and Val’sharah. You and everyone else on your realm will be offered the same World Quests at any given time, so don’t forget to group up when necessary!

World Quests come in varying durations, and those that are more difficult (and rewarding) typically have longer durations. This is so that you can decide when to do them, and since completing World Quests doesn’t cause more World Quests to immediately spawn, you can make the most of your time.

A Variety of Offerings
There are many different types of World Quests that you’ll see on your map. They might include:


  • A solo adventure.
  • A difficult challenge that requires multiple people.
  • A task related to one of your professions.
  • A World Boss that requires many people.
  • A dungeon challenge that you’ll do with a group.
  • Pet Battling.
  • Player-versus-player activities.


You’ll get to see several details about each World Quest for yourself before you travel to it. Those details include rewards offered, such as:

  • Gold
  • Artifact Power
  • Blood of Sargeras
  • PvE or PvP gear
  • Profession reagents
  • Pet Charms
  • Reputation with a specific faction

Some rewards scale with your current item level.


Special Requests
There are hundreds of World quests in store for you in the Broken Isles, so you won’t be seeing too many of the same World Quests anytime soon. You’ll want to keep your eyes on for Emissary Quests, which reward you with a valuable satchel when you complete them. Each day, a new Emissary Quest will become available to you, and you can have up to three Emissaries at the same time.

Each of the Emissary World Quest turn-ins offers reputation with the primary faction of its associated zone. That means that if your biggest focus is Nightfallen reputation, you’ll want to make sure you don’t miss the Emissary World Quests in Suramar when they’re available.

Questions and Answers
On July 14, Senior Game Designer Jeremy Feasel answered many questions about World Quests. Check it out:


Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Game Stuttering After Login
I wanted to jump in here regarding this issue, this is actually something that is being worked on already. The main cause is the game loading in hotfix data, the stutter will go away after ~10-15 seconds or so in most cases and depending on the connection/hardware. So as a workaround, you can try logging into the character let it sit for 10 seconds or so before moving around, should help.

Now that said, if it continues past 60 seconds it's likely a different issue and I would suggest opening a new thread with the issue you're running into. (Official Forums)

Mythic Dungeons
Ugh. There's actually mythic only dungeons? I really didn't realise this. That's kind of !@#$ty. Ffs, isn't destiny and vanilla wow a case study in why you don't difficulty gate content anymore. It's not like these games have enough ndgame content for casuals during these huge dryspells as it is. I assume anyone intelligent at blizzard has moved on to other projects (the state of many classes in the beta which are not going to be fundamentally changed before release are a good example of this.)
I think it's worthy to note that base Mythic in Legion is comparable to some of the older Heroic dungeons many are used to in terms of difficulty. These dungeons become harder as Keystones are used to scale them and increase their challenges, but this is not a system you need to participate in if you don't want to.

If your concern is over grouping, the in-game Group Finder tool will be a good way to find groups for Mythic dungeons, much as it is now.

Well that is good to hear. But why force people to use a lfg tool instead of just the Finder? Just ends up with people being weird and dicky about who they bring and will quickly turn a lot of people off. Again, like destiny. To be honest it seems like an even weirder choice to not have the option if they start as the same difficulty as normal heroics.
You then could, of course, create your own group and find people who aren't going to be weird/rude while in the dungeon. Again, the dungeons are a bit more challenging (akin to older heroics), so there is a level of cooperation and communication (CCs, boss strategy, etc.) that may need to take place that, I think, is best served by building a group yourself most of the time.

Since the Mythic dungeons evolve into Mythic Keystone dungeons, I assume that was onr of the driving points behind disallowing LFD groups to take on these challenges, as they require much more cooperation.

Edit: That, and one of our goals with Legion was to create an alternative to Raids as a form of end-game progression. In the same way that if you want to participate in end-game raiding progression, you will also need to find a group yourself to participate in end-game dungeon progression. Grab some of your friends and hop in, and fill the remaining slots through the Group Finder!

My only concern about Mythic dungeons is trying to get a group with this character. I figure if I'm not getting any groups today even with 707 ilvl the situation won't be much better in legion's endgame.
Again, you can always create your own group and find people whose ilvl may be closer to yours, or who don't care about the disparity.

Mythic dungeons are not the same thing as mythic raids, they aren't even in the same realm of difficulty.
This is accurate at the base. With Mythic Keystone scaling, however, we could see high Keystone levels being quite possibly harder than some Mythic raid encounters, I think.

Edit: This is terrifying to think about. Oh god, what have we done.

But those who exclusively run LFD will mostly have no interest in the mythic keystone system. I know I don't. I enjoy running LFD and LFR as my end game content and to see them withheld as a way of trying to make me play in a way that I don't enjoy is a sad change for me.
Completely understandable. The hop-in hop-out nature of LFD/LFR is a good way for many players to engage in that side of end-game content.

I'm interested in what is keeping you away from wanting to try/participate-in Mythics?

So Heroic was rebranded as Mythic, just as I suspected... thanks for the confirmation.
Not necessarily. Heroics exist still, and are more challenging than the normal/leveling version of dungeons, but Mythic is us creating an alternative to raiding and PvP as an end-game activity.

What's the point of putting a label on something when the label has no specific meaning? They are causing too much confusion in the player base by slapping the Mythic label on multiple forms of content that all have different difficulty levels.

What exactly does Mythic mean anymore?
Nothing has changed there. The progression, on the dungeon side, is still:

Normal->Heroic->Mythic.

The only difference is that Mythic can now scale up through the use of Keystones, creating a more and more challenging dungeon experience.

We welcome the feedback and discussion on this topic, but I just want to reiterate that our goal here with Mythic and Mythic Keystones is to create a dungeon-focused end-game progression system as an alternative to raiding, etc.

We have a blog planned for later this week which will cover some discussion and developer insight on the two Mythic-only dungeons - so be on the lookout for that. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Dark Legacy Comics #548
DLC #548 has been released!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Gamescom Developer Interview, Legion World Quests Preview, Blue Posts, DLC #548 started by chaud View original post
Published on 2016-08-23 03:27 AM
73 Comments
Comments 72 Comments
  1. DDM's Avatar
    Haha, those questions !!!! As already mentioned, these players are the problems. Whining about the "hard" content and only going into dumbass lottery and even failing in there or being just afk.
    Blizz, please stop designing/make the game easy as hell just because of such stupid statements. Stop giving everybody free loot. Stop adding valor points for upgrading the gear (which makes decisions about ilvl defective)
    It's an MMO. Get in a guild, learn your class, at least to a decent point and do the content and get suitable rewarded for that. (Heroic raids are not hard at all.)

    And the changes to the addons -> i like it. Paragon "Wrought Chaos" tactics >>>>> Method radar. The Paragon one was the real first kill in my opinion.
  1. Aggrax's Avatar
    As someone that has an issue with forming my own groups, let me try to shed some light on why exactly this is an issue for some people. Obviously there is going to be some generalization going on here and I can't speak for anyone other than myself, so please keep that in mind.

    Part of the problem is players that don't have the patience to slow down and deal with others who are less skilled or are learning things. Everywhere in group finder are people saying things like "speed run, don't suck want gear fast" and requiring an ilvl on par with the gear from that raid so the person making the group can gear themselves up faster. Now, I don't have a problem with there being some groups like this. It does fill a niche and sometimes it's what people want. My issue is that this type of group is the only type you see. Groups that offer to slow down, learn the fights and accept people who are more mid-tier players just trying to improve themselves.

    Now please, don't mistake this for a happy-feel-good "you should take everyone" attitude. Obviously, if a player is an active detriment to a group and makes the same mistake consistently or has no idea what to do, you are free not to take them. But this attitude is taken to the furthest extreme, where players that are trying, are learning, get completely excluded. It leads to a negative cycle of not wanting to join groups because you get completely stressed out over negativity and outright hate that is heaped on people. Again, don't take this to mean that we will throw up our hands at any criticism and claim that people are harassing us. There is a large difference between "Hey, you're doing X, Y and Z wrong and you should change that so the group can get through this." and "OMG YOU SUX UNINSTALL THE GAME AND KILL YOURSELF" (which, yes, I have been told).

    Now, I know a lot of you are wondering what the composition of other groups has to do with forming your own. After all, if I form the group, shouldn't I be able to weed those people out? To an extent, yes that is true. However, when you form a group you take upon yourself the position of leader. Generally, you decide what the group is doing, who is coming and what is happening. Which, realistically, requires some knowledge of your objective, in this case the dungeon. And since I never got into a group to do it, I've never been able to see what is happening. Yes, I know boss guides exist, I watch them regularly. But that doesn't always prepare you for what happens in those dungeons. Especially the first time, you can often make mistakes. I play this game for fun, to relax and avoid stresses in my life. If forming a group is going to become this stressful experience, I'm likely to avoid it under most circumstances.

    One more thing that I want people to think about. Why do you assume there is such a stark difference between a group assembled in the dungeon finder and one assembled through the group finder? They are both just a random pool of players, the only real difference is you have to assemble the group yourself. Why is it so different if the game does it for you?
  1. mmoc63c331f4e8's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrax View Post
    As someone that has an issue with forming my own groups, let me try to shed some light on why exactly this is an issue for some people. Obviously there is going to be some generalization going on here and I can't speak for anyone other than myself, so please keep that in mind.

    Part of the problem is players that don't have the patience to slow down and deal with others who are less skilled or are learning things. Everywhere in group finder are people saying things like "speed run, don't suck want gear fast" and requiring an ilvl on par with the gear from that raid so the person making the group can gear themselves up faster. Now, I don't have a problem with there being some groups like this. It does fill a niche and sometimes it's what people want. My issue is that this type of group is the only type you see. Groups that offer to slow down, learn the fights and accept people who are more mid-tier players just trying to improve themselves.

    Now please, don't mistake this for a happy-feel-good "you should take everyone" attitude. Obviously, if a player is an active detriment to a group and makes the same mistake consistently or has no idea what to do, you are free not to take them. But this attitude is taken to the furthest extreme, where players that are trying, are learning, get completely excluded. It leads to a negative cycle of not wanting to join groups because you get completely stressed out over negativity and outright hate that is heaped on people. Again, don't take this to mean that we will throw up our hands at any criticism and claim that people are harassing us. There is a large difference between "Hey, you're doing X, Y and Z wrong and you should change that so the group can get through this." and "OMG YOU SUX UNINSTALL THE GAME AND KILL YOURSELF" (which, yes, I have been told).

    Now, I know a lot of you are wondering what the composition of other groups has to do with forming your own. After all, if I form the group, shouldn't I be able to weed those people out? To an extent, yes that is true. However, when you form a group you take upon yourself the position of leader. Generally, you decide what the group is doing, who is coming and what is happening. Which, realistically, requires some knowledge of your objective, in this case the dungeon. And since I never got into a group to do it, I've never been able to see what is happening. Yes, I know boss guides exist, I watch them regularly. But that doesn't always prepare you for what happens in those dungeons. Especially the first time, you can often make mistakes. I play this game for fun, to relax and avoid stresses in my life. If forming a group is going to become this stressful experience, I'm likely to avoid it under most circumstances.

    One more thing that I want people to think about. Why do you assume there is such a stark difference between a group assembled in the dungeon finder and one assembled through the group finder? They are both just a random pool of players, the only real difference is you have to assemble the group yourself. Why is it so different if the game does it for you?
    I also play this game for fun, to relax and to avoid stress in my life. Teaching random people in the group finder how to play doesn't do any of those things for me. I'm a helpful and patient person but I'm not a charity. I help guildies and friends of course but when I fill up that group through finder I want the rest of the group to know what they're doing already, it's less stressful for me and also creates a better environment for my inexperienced friend to learn in.

    If we are 4 competent people in a group it's alright if one player makes mistakes. If there are 4 newbies in the group it's going to be a painful trial and error thing. That's fine if you're a group of friends but it's not what I'm looking for in a random group.

    If you need help join a guild, or get a friend. I don't mind helping people but I want to know who it is, if I just bring in low geared people from the finder to be nice, odds are they are just looking for a quick and easy way to get gear, not really interested in learning at all.

    If you want to be in a group where everyone is welcome to learn, make that kind of group. I'm warning you tho it's probably going to suck, and that's exactly why you don't see those groups around that often.
  1. Ottius's Avatar
    Anyone knows if those awesome metal covers of WoW music which were playing during this Gamescom available anywhere?
  1. mmocc90fcf6aa1's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by moffin View Post
    I also play this game for fun, to relax and to avoid stress in my life. Teaching random people in the group finder how to play doesn't do any of those things for me. I'm a helpful and patient person but I'm not a charity. I help guildies and friends of course but when I fill up that group through finder I want the rest of the group to know what they're doing already, it's less stressful for me and also creates a better environment for my inexperienced friend to learn in.

    If we are 4 competent people in a group it's alright if one player makes mistakes. If there are 4 newbies in the group it's going to be a painful trial and error thing. That's fine if you're a group of friends but it's not what I'm looking for in a random group.

    If you need help join a guild, or get a friend. I don't mind helping people but I want to know who it is, if I just bring in low geared people from the finder to be nice, odds are they are just looking for a quick and easy way to get gear, not really interested in learning at all.

    If you want to be in a group where everyone is welcome to learn, make that kind of group. I'm warning you tho it's probably going to suck, and that's exactly why you don't see those groups around that often.

    The issue is not with wanting to play with experienced players, the issue is when so many of these groups require players that already have basically the full gear from that raid tier which is completely retarded and obnoxious. That is just a pure form of PL just like people get PL in arenas.
    The problem IS these players who just want to faceroll every form of content with no form of socialization and respect. They just use others as tools


    Not to mention that they are often the same type of min-maxer garbage players who just play according to what they read on the internet and completely shut down several specs in the game just because "duh 5% dps loss duh duh"
  1. Fynzie's Avatar
    "Internal testing for raids is done without custom boss mods for each boss and the mechanics. The bosses can be beat with the stock UI."

    Haha, what a fucking lie they didn't even spend a single pull on Mythic Archimonde
  1. JaceDraccus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by moffin View Post
    I also play this game for fun, to relax and to avoid stress in my life. Teaching random people in the group finder how to play doesn't do any of those things for me. I'm a helpful and patient person but I'm not a charity. I help guildies and friends of course but when I fill up that group through finder I want the rest of the group to know what they're doing already, it's less stressful for me and also creates a better environment for my inexperienced friend to learn in.
    So you don't want to teach strangers how to play, but you want strangers to teach your friend?
  1. TristanTaylor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by moffin View Post
    I also play this game for fun, to relax and to avoid stress in my life. Teaching random people in the group finder how to play doesn't do any of those things for me. I'm a helpful and patient person but I'm not a charity. I help guildies and friends of course but when I fill up that group through finder I want the rest of the group to know what they're doing already, it's less stressful for me and also creates a better environment for my inexperienced friend to learn in.

    If we are 4 competent people in a group it's alright if one player makes mistakes. If there are 4 newbies in the group it's going to be a painful trial and error thing. That's fine if you're a group of friends but it's not what I'm looking for in a random group.

    If you need help join a guild, or get a friend. I don't mind helping people but I want to know who it is, if I just bring in low geared people from the finder to be nice, odds are they are just looking for a quick and easy way to get gear, not really interested in learning at all.

    If you want to be in a group where everyone is welcome to learn, make that kind of group. I'm warning you tho it's probably going to suck, and that's exactly why you don't see those groups around that often.
    And that's all your choice, but some of us want the choice of simply queueing and getting into the dungeon, having a way to do that doesn't make it so you can't use the other option, however the reverse is not true, as we aren't given a version to simply queue for and just go. I think that's what most of this upset is about.
  1. Saiona's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TristanTaylor View Post
    And that's all your choice, but some of us want the choice of simply queueing and getting into the dungeon, having a way to do that doesn't make it so you can't use the other option, however the reverse is not true, as we aren't given a version to simply queue for and just go. I think that's what most of this upset is about.
    Then you don't get to do the dungeons. Not everything needs to be accessible at a mind numbing difficulty level
  1. mmoc63c331f4e8's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lateralsx5 View Post
    The issue is not with wanting to play with experienced players, the issue is when so many of these groups require players that already have basically the full gear from that raid tier which is completely retarded and obnoxious. That is just a pure form of PL just like people get PL in arenas.
    The problem IS these players who just want to faceroll every form of content with no form of socialization and respect. They just use others as tools


    Not to mention that they are often the same type of min-maxer garbage players who just play according to what they read on the internet and completely shut down several specs in the game just because "duh 5% dps loss duh duh"
    Yeah of course that exists. A good example are groups for garrison invasions for example, that content hasn't increased in difficulty since it was introduced and you used to get into a group fine with something like 680 ilvl, now alot of groups aren't taking you if you're below 710.

    All groups aren't like that though and generally I've found mythic dungeon groups to be pretty lenient with this stuff. Even the removal of ML from pugs has increased the availablity of pug raids. Sometimes you might have to try for a little bit to find a group and I think for some people if it takes more than 30 seconds they just won't bother and decide to type on the forums that there are no groups.


    Quote Originally Posted by JaceDraccus View Post
    So you don't want to teach strangers how to play, but you want strangers to teach your friend?
    I'm not sure how you got that idea, why do you think I'm playing with my friend? To teach him or her obviously. New players make mistakes though and in a decent group that is fine. I know there are people who make groups to carry really undergeared people but that's not what I'm talking about here, I personally wouldn't bring someone who is a detriment to a group as a whole. And by that I mean more than one wipe or a significantly slower clear time. I'm not saying you are one of them but some people seem to think that if everyone isn't in full mythic gear and the dungeon is done in sub 10 minutes someone was carried, that's not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by TristanTaylor View Post
    And that's all your choice, but some of us want the choice of simply queueing and getting into the dungeon, having a way to do that doesn't make it so you can't use the other option, however the reverse is not true, as we aren't given a version to simply queue for and just go. I think that's what most of this upset is about.
    Random heroics still exist, LFR is being brought back to its MoP-state when it comes to gear so endgaming by the dungeon tool will be a thing again for those people who prefer it. The reason for mthic dungeons not being in the queue-system is they're harder. It just wouldn't be an enjoyable experience concidering a lot of people with that mindset (I don't want to join a group manually) don't really care about learning either.

    If you played back when Cata heroics were "hard", you would know that it wasn't really a good experience. Even if you found the difficulty absolutely fine you'd get lots of people joining not really caring, not wanting to learn or listening, they leave, new people join and behave the same and so on. If you got a really bad group you could easily sit in a dungeon for over an hour if you were persistent in staying, and most of that time would be spent wiping and then waiting for a new player to join since one or more left, it really wasn't fun. If we would have had the group finder tool back then I'm sure it would have been a blast.
  1. mmoc9de0d4c32c's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mizzet View Post
    It isn't though, you and the playerbase at large have just been conditioned to think so because addons have been holding your hand for so long. People coordinate far more complicated mechanics manually in FFXIV without addons.
    I agree on the point of the radar being removed but have you played FFXIV? The only mechanic close to as complex as Wrought Chaos is Nisi/Royal Pentacle and what happened to that? Everyone used a bug/expolit to deal with it. Also top guilds do use addons ACT can be set up to give callouts similar to the timers on DBM defference is top guild have to workout timings themself in live due to no PTR.

    FF14 mechanics arent complex they are instead punishing, messing up almost any mechanic is insta death or insta wipe.
  1. mmoc35f68e9f3b's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kektonic View Post
    Good god those people complaining about having to actually get groups for Mythic+ were so fucking cringy.
    Don't worry, those people will never see mythic anyway.
  1. Rhoe's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrax View Post
    One more thing that I want people to think about. Why do you assume there is such a stark difference between a group assembled in the dungeon finder and one assembled through the group finder? They are both just a random pool of players, the only real difference is you have to assemble the group yourself. Why is it so different if the game does it for you?
    Dungeon Finder has kick protection, meaning if someone is 8 years old and just clicking shiny buttons while targeting random mobs, or thinks it's funny to wipe the group repeatedly or just wants to afk and leech on the group or is a bot, they will get kicked a few times and then the game will start giving them a hidden protection cd so you can't kick them with vote kick for a long time. Maybe not such a big problem if they're dps and you can just ignore their utter uselessness, but when you get that "funny" tank who just wants to stand there and sling insults instead of pulling, you're kinda stuck.

    Also, vote kick abuse. I've only had it happen to me once, but I often see people trying to kick others for silly or irrelevant reasons, and most people just click yes without bothering to think. Examples being kicking the healer before last boss because the tank doesn't need healing, the blue geared 20k dps guy who was AFK for a single trash pack, the healer who couldn't keep the tank up when he decided to pull two spellslinger packs in Old Kingdom TW and not interrupt anything, the dps doing "too much damage" (wat), hunters with pet taunt on (yes, it's annoying, but it usually helps if you ask them to stop it instead of just instakick) etc, etc.

    If you go with the group finder instead, the leader can always kick people, and only the leader has that power. He or she also had to set the group up, which might have taken minimal effort, but still effort, meaning it's less likely that they will just decide to kick someone before the last boss for the lulz. Assuming it's a mythic dungeon, you also have to manually summon people, meaning it's more annoying to replace people, and people thus tend to be a bit more tolerent of the guy who had to go check who rang the door bell etc. In all the mythic dungeon groups I've led, I've only ever kicked a boomy who when repeatedly asked to try a bit harder with his dps (he was consistently doing 10k dps) decided to start cycloning random trash mobs instead.

    Another minor difference is that if someone leaves after a dungeon, but the rest of the group want to stay together for another one, you can invite a friend/guildie etc, while the dungeon finder only supports finding someone random, which I think is rather anti-social.

    TL;DR: Group finder is less likely to waste your time with leechers/trolls/votekick before last boss because more effort is put into creating the group and getting to the dungeon.
  1. Noix's Avatar
    What i hear is "Please hold my hand and let me leech gear off of you cuz i cant do anything on my own" about this mythic +

    Sounds rude yes.. cuz it is.
    ilvl isnt an issue. even before wod, mop, cata (think thats where major change was) you can and have the ability to get gear and ilvl needed to do content, specially in wod, you can hit ilvl of 715+ easy if your willing to do it, but "YOU" are not willing to do it, "you would rather people do it for you" (Quote this cuz not everyone is like that).

    The ones who set group up asking for this ilvl.
    ilvl are 2 types of people mostly
    A: They have skills and the ilvl and want to complete the "said" content as easy without carrying that 1 person who just stand there and afk pushing 1 on the keyboard.
    B: Person who wants to get carried or Wants to do "said" content.

    Between those 2 people, are people who
    A: to scared to join a group cuz the group ask for ilvl or has rude comments (this is internet who isnt going to put "Big dicks hates you walmat blockbuster") as a comment
    B: are to new to know what to do

    So instead of seeking out info that clearly trolls kinda point out "GOOGLE KNOWS" or "YOUTUBE KNOWS" (Sometimes trolls give out useful info if you read between the lines) they rather complain about not able to do content cuz of ilvl and being new...

    Only real excuse a person can have that is remotely valid is being NEW.. ilvl is a issue in the pass if you are willing to work at it (LFR farming, Dungeon farming, crafted gear FARMING, FARMING! if you see where i am getting at) if you try to skip this part of course YOU WILL HAVE AN ILVL ISSUE nobody wants to carry you to get your ilvl up when you can do it on your own, you just need stop being lazy and go and do it (YES THIS IS POST LEGION)

    Now in legion getting your ilvl higher is even THAT MUCH EASIER then it was in wod.. and again we will be face with the same issue "People ask for higher ilvl then me" or "Nobody wants to take me" cuz again YOU rather not make your own group OR you dont want to put the work in to get the ilvl that is need from people who have worked hard.

    Farming for gear is easy to do if your willing to work at it, its just long and boring process and yes it sucks.. but guess what, everyone who plays wow works at getting gear even top raiders (wait i think blizzard hands them gear >.>) those of us who work for gear are the ones who will leap ahead of "YOU" why cuz you dont want to do the work (Farming) at getting ilvl needed to go do things.

    I support mythic+ and i support those who work hard at getting themselves higher ilvl then most people, and for rest of the people who complain about ilvl and not getting into mythic+ well guess what you have 3 options
    A: Start farming for bettter ilvl and stop being lazy
    B: Make your own group and see what happens
    C: You wont be doing mythic+

    Till you can learn to work for your gear like rest of the Wow community you will never pass that breaking point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhoe View Post
    Dungeon Finder has kick protection, meaning if someone is 8 years old and just clicking shiny buttons while targeting random mobs, or thinks it's funny to wipe the group repeatedly or just wants to afk and leech on the group or is a bot, they will get kicked a few times and then the game will start giving them a hidden protection cd so you can't kick them with vote kick for a long time. Maybe not such a big problem if they're dps and you can just ignore their utter uselessness, but when you get that "funny" tank who just wants to stand there and sling insults instead of pulling, you're kinda stuck.

    Also, vote kick abuse. I've only had it happen to me once, but I often see people trying to kick others for silly or irrelevant reasons, and most people just click yes without bothering to think. Examples being kicking the healer before last boss because the tank doesn't need healing, the blue geared 20k dps guy who was AFK for a single trash pack, the healer who couldn't keep the tank up when he decided to pull two spellslinger packs in Old Kingdom TW and not interrupt anything, the dps doing "too much damage" (wat), hunters with pet taunt on (yes, it's annoying, but it usually helps if you ask them to stop it instead of just instakick) etc, etc.

    If you go with the group finder instead, the leader can always kick people, and only the leader has that power. He or she also had to set the group up, which might have taken minimal effort, but still effort, meaning it's less likely that they will just decide to kick someone before the last boss for the lulz. Assuming it's a mythic dungeon, you also have to manually summon people, meaning it's more annoying to replace people, and people thus tend to be a bit more tolerent of the guy who had to go check who rang the door bell etc. In all the mythic dungeon groups I've led, I've only ever kicked a boomy who when repeatedly asked to try a bit harder with his dps (he was consistently doing 10k dps) decided to start cycloning random trash mobs instead.

    Another minor difference is that if someone leaves after a dungeon, but the rest of the group want to stay together for another one, you can invite a friend/guildie etc, while the dungeon finder only supports finding someone random, which I think is rather anti-social.

    TL;DR: Group finder is less likely to waste your time with leechers/trolls/votekick before last boss because more effort is put into creating the group and getting to the dungeon.

    I shouldnt have to tell you to turn off your pet taunt lol, you should know this by now.. you did lvl your hunter right? you do know how to control your pet right? LOL
  1. mmoc3285d9bbbe's Avatar
    So I understood correctly, in Legion, mythic dungeons will be part of the LFG tool? And why do I have the feeling, that mythic will be the sme difficulty as timewalking dungeons?
  1. Shakou's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TristanTaylor View Post
    And that's all your choice, but some of us want the choice of simply queueing and getting into the dungeon, having a way to do that doesn't make it so you can't use the other option, however the reverse is not true, as we aren't given a version to simply queue for and just go. I think that's what most of this upset is about.
    Well that's just too bad. Now you'll just have to put in as much effort as anyone else does to mix/max and play your characters to their best potential and socialize with other people. In no way is that a bad thing all it means is players won't get that loot for doing next to nothing, including the things every other player that's serious about progression just does naturally at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alianna View Post
    So I understood correctly, in Legion, mythic dungeons will be part of the LFG tool? And why do I have the feeling, that mythic will be the sme difficulty as timewalking dungeons?
    No you did not understand it correctly, you will not be able to queue for mythic dungeons, you will only be able to use the MANUAL LFG tool. I don't know if you were aware of this but LFG is not LFD.
  1. mmocc8db47a729's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alianna View Post
    So I understood correctly, in Legion, mythic dungeons will be part of the LFG tool? And why do I have the feeling, that mythic will be the sme difficulty as timewalking dungeons?
    ??? Mythic dungeons remain in the premade group finder section where you have to manually invite each person or just go with your friends/guildies.
  1. Shudder's Avatar
    Every time you tell a whiner "just make your own group, invite your guildies or friends or whoever you want" they NEVER respond to you. They can't because they literally have no retort for that. It shuts them the fuck up instantly.
  1. Shakou's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynzie View Post
    "Internal testing for raids is done without custom boss mods for each boss and the mechanics. The bosses can be beat with the stock UI."

    Haha, what a fucking lie they didn't even spend a single pull on Mythic Archimonde
    That's not remotely accurate. They have been internal testing every raid boss at least since WOTLK. The fact that at least one guild (Paragon) managed to down Mythic Archi without the use of the boss mods that are going to be disabled in the patch is testament to this.
  1. JaceDraccus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by moffin View Post
    I'm not sure how you got that idea, why do you think I'm playing with my friend? To teach him or her obviously. New players make mistakes though and in a decent group that is fine. I know there are people who make groups to carry really undergeared people but that's not what I'm talking about here, I personally wouldn't bring someone who is a detriment to a group as a whole. And by that I mean more than one wipe or a significantly slower clear time. I'm not saying you are one of them but some people seem to think that if everyone isn't in full mythic gear and the dungeon is done in sub 10 minutes someone was carried, that's not true.
    Of course you're playing with your friend to teach them.

    However, you don't see even the slightest disconnect between saying "Teaching random people in the group finder how to play doesn't do any of those things for me" and "when I fill up that group through finder I want the rest of the group to know what they're doing already, it's less stressful for me and also creates a better environment for my inexperienced friend to learn in"?

    I mean, to everyone else, you and your friend are 'random people'. So if you wouldn't find it fun to 'teach random people', why should anyone who joins your group want to do that for your friend?
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