December 13 Hotfixes, Upcoming PTR Legendary Changes, Blue Posts, Tweets

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Patch 7.1 Hotfixes - December 13
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Dungeons and Raids
Helya
  • Resolved an issue where Helya's Taint of the Sea on Mythic difficulty would sometimes cast at incorrect times in Stage One.

Player versus Player
  • Players can now reach Prestige level 8.

Rogue (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
  • (Assasination) Agility increased by 5%.
  • (Outlaw) Agility increased by 5%.

Warlock (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
  • (Affliction) Intellect decreased by 5%.

Death Knight (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
  • (Frost) Stamina reduced by 10%.

Monk (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
  • (Windwalker) Strike of the Windlord now deals 60% damage in PvP.
  • (Windwalker) Fists of Fury now deals 85% damage in PvP.

Priest (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
  • Atonement effect increased by 10% in PvP.

Druid (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
  • (Restoration) Fortified Bark (Honor Talent) now increases the damage reduction of Ironbark by 15% (was 30%).

Upcoming PTR Legendary Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
As we mentioned this during the live Q&A last week, we feel the biggest shortcoming of the current Legendary system is that, for some specs, there are some items that are clearly better than others in nearly all situations. As a result, players who have received a different Legendary item feel unlucky, as they didn’t receive the “best” one.

So, we’re making some fairly substantial changes to Legendary items intended to bring them more in line with each other. Items that give a raw throughput increase (without significant situational restrictions or drawbacks) are having their overall power reduced, and we’re taking another pass at several of the more niche items to make sure that, when they’re usable, they feel powerful.

Essentially, we feel that if a Legendary is only usable in certain situations, it should feel extremely valuable in those situations. Conversely, if a Legendary is nearly always going to increase your overall performance, that increase should be relatively smaller. Up until this point, we’ve made the mistake of allowing several items to be both extremely impactful AND always useful, which has made other Legendaries feel “bad” by comparison. It’s also caused some specs to feel as though they need a particular Legendary in order to compete. Those are the issues we’d like to solve.

We’re actively working on these changes right now and expect to have them ready for the next PTR build. We’ll be doing additional class tuning where necessary as a followup, once these changes are in place.

Instead we are faced with the daunting possibility that we may simply never get a useful legendary. That is not fun, its repeatedly disappointing.
We agree. The problem is that some Legendaries don't feel useful. That's the issue we're looking to solve here.

I really hope you guys learn from the system and the next iteration of legendaries is purely defensive/utility and no outright dps legendary affixes. They would be much more fair/balanced if they were that way.
There's definitely a lot we've learned here. Ion even said pretty much exactly this in the last Q&A - if we did it all over again, we'd probably only make "Utility" Legendaries.

With some, as the instructors fourth lesson for Unholy DKs, it is MANDATORY. This legendary is -required- for us to perform even remotely on par with other DPS classes.
Right. As I said, that's another problem we're trying to fix. If a spec is only competitive with a specific Legendary, then we need to bring up their numbers. To do that, we need to also nerf that Legendary.

Just use a legendary token system. Problem solved.
Disagree. "Just let me pick the best Legendary" doesn't solve this particular problem; there shouldn't be one or two Legendaries that are far and away the best one in all situations. With the way these items are in 7.1, if we add such a system, everyone will just pick the best 2 for their spec and the rest will still suck. We'd rather that none of them sucked.

And just to be clear: something like what you (and others) are describing here is not off the table. Ion even mentioned at BlizzCon that we may end up doing something along those lines in a later patch. It just doesn't solve this problem.

Another problem not mentioned here is being spec-locked because of legendaries. I have X on my spec, so can't freely switch without feeling behind. AP already contributes to this problem but at least can be caught up -- legendaries, with soft caps and what not, just make it impossible to switch.
Yeah, we definitely share your concern here. We don't have a solution yet (and aren't likely to for 7.1.5), but it's something we're talking about.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Death Knight (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator / Artifact Calculator / PvP Talent Calculator)
Upcoming Unholy Death Knight Changes
Quick note on a small upcoming change: in the next PTR build, Apocalypse will burst up to 6 Festering Wounds (instead of 8). However, the damage of the summoned ghouls will be increased by 33% (which will not be obvious from data), keeping the total the same. This is also a large buff to the damage of Army of the Dead. Finally, in a separate change, the damage of the summoned Gargoyle and Val'kyr will be increased.

However, will apocalypse continue to burst 4 wounds in pvp?
Yes. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

Blue Tweets
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Any consideration for a pet battle related tint to the new artifact appearance tied to solo content?
What would a "pet battle related artifact appearance" even look like? Accepting all ideas. (Muffinus)
This article was originally published in forum thread: December 13 Hotfixes, Upcoming PTR Legendary Changes, Blue Posts, Tweets started by chaud View original post
Published on 2016-12-14 05:57 AM
56 Comments
Comments 56 Comments
  1. Ilnezhara's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    The only problem with the Legendary system is that most DPS players see anything that isn't a DPS increase as useless, so basically anything that is a "utility" legendary is immediately useless. Which is the wrong way to look at it, which is why most players are straight up bad, they look at a challenge and instead of attempting to overcome it they want the challenge made easier.
    Or they just want to get into a guild with any level of progression?
  1. Gadzooks's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Do you really have to be a game designer to understand why a Legendary Token system would be horrendous in practice? Extremely shortsighted bandwagon suggestion and nothing else. Glad to see Blizzard aren't going that route just because people automatically go for the "fix" that'd mean the fastest possible progression.

    And then there's the community that will always theorycraft the best of them. Alright, so if all legendarys that increase your damage is removed... so which legendary now becomes the BiS (and thus mandatory?) because it has the most impact on overall raid performance? Which are now mandatory for tanks and healers?

    This community proves time and time again that Blizzard has to be so incredibly, EXTREMELY careful whenever they add something new, because "mandatory" has become a buzzword, and has been for years now. Add a nice raid-level trinket to a profession? Welp guess that profession is now mandatory, right? Can't have that! Remove!
    Blizzard should know how their players approach their game - a game that has practically trained them to act the way they do. Extra power has all kinds of ways to be given to the player, without a flat stat-on-gear approach. Rotations in conjunction with gear is one example, but they've sanded the rotations down to bare metal this time around.

    The problem is on both sides. The devs don't design to how players actually act, and the players will always look to game the system to their own benefit every time. They've nurtured and trainied a player-base to act in ways that have made changes almost impossible.

    What's the fix? Hell if I know. It might be time to hang WoW up as "done' and start over.
  1. mmoc59b5827c7e's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    DPS saying a mitigation trinket is useless makes DPS bad. If you were in a progression raid guild then you would be able to see that the utility legendaries are good for progression, despite not being DPS increases. If you arne't in a progress raid guild then the legendaries aren't doing much for you anyway.

    DPS having the sole objective of doing bigger numbers make the DPS bad, yes.



    Oh really, I joined a progression raiding guild with one utility legendary, I got my second legendary and that was also a utility legendary, I've yet to be benched. Strange.
    No? Hence we have this discussion in the first place. No one wants utility/crap legendaries instead of their BiS DPS ones. Especially not during progression.
  1. Daan's Avatar
    No DH mastery snapshot hotfix?
  1. Pheros's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Emerald Phoenix View Post
    Upcoming PTR Legendary Changes
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    There's definitely a lot we've learned here. Ion even said pretty much exactly this in the last Q&A - if we did it all over again, we'd probably only make "Utility" Legendaries.
    Funny, sounds exactly like something I suggested even though others on this site insisted that legendaries have always been about damage.

    I really hope Blizzard learned something from this one, never ever give players a choice between damage and something else, they will always choose damage, and throw a tantrum if they can't do so.
    I feel making them all utility is boring as hell too. I'd almost prefer them ALL giving different types of throughput increases. Then again...I'm always a fan of buffing low outliers up, NOT nerfing everything that's good to bring everything down to the lowest common denominator.
  1. Xjev's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    The only problem with the Legendary system is that most DPS players see anything that isn't a DPS increase as useless, so basically anything that is a "utility" legendary is immediately useless. Which is the wrong way to look at it, which is why most players are straight up bad, they look at a challenge and instead of attempting to overcome it they want the challenge made easier.
    but most utilities are useless
  1. Wolfie of Medivh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jkurbs View Post
    DPS trying to maximize dps makes DPS bad. Makes sense.
    No, it makes them annoying.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadzooks View Post
    I think this is the crux of the issue. The legendaries on paper are fine, but the devs are refusing to see that guilds and players will ALWAYS demand the BiS. Always. They probably expect guilds to overlook your lack of 885 gear, but anyone who plays knows that's not how it works. Everyone knows that competitive guilds will require legendaries, and make raid composition decisions based on that.
    If a guild is benching you because of legendaries - it's not because of legendaries. It's because they don't like you. Probably because you whine about legendaries too much.
  1. mmoca163a27034's Avatar
    I have no clue what went wrong in the egg heads of blizz. There will always be the two bis legendaries no matter what. They can change the effects on the items or whatever, but the two strongest legendaries will be focused and the QQ'ing will never stop. Even if they change all legendaries to utility ones, they will still have stats on it, so we are still going to use the legs with the strongest dps output. No one cares about utility effects. Will of Valeera is an good example, completely useless for raid enviroment - bad effect and the haste makes this pants worse than 890 with correct stats.
  1. Alopex Major's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilnezhara View Post
    In short, Legion has been an okay expansion for normal people, an amazing expansion for casuals but the absolute worst one yet for people like me in the 4/7-5/7 Mythic EN range who work real jobs and can't play all the god damned time.
    I agree with all of your post, except I don't think it's amazing for casuals at all. Most casuals that I know (including myself in that number) like to: level and play alts and do professions. Both of which are locked behind dungeons, time gates, and RNG. When I look at how much I have yet to do in order to simply level my alts' professions I just close the game. Forget it.
  1. Ilnezhara's Avatar
    Armory or I don't believe you.
  1. Gadzooks's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie of Medivh View Post
    No, it makes them annoying.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If a guild is benching you because of legendaries - it's not because of legendaries. It's because they don't like you. Probably because you whine about legendaries too much.
    I havent subbed to WoW since the first week of WOD.

    But you keep thinking you know things. It's working so well for you.
  1. Wolfie of Medivh's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadzooks View Post
    I havent subbed to WoW since the first week of WOD.

    But you keep thinking you know things. It's working so well for you.
    Wow, I can't imagine having so little in my life to do I have to go onto third-party forums for a game I don't play to complain about it. Wow, that is a level of dedication to assholery that I can not begin to process.
  1. RoKPaNda's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilnezhara View Post
    Or they just want to get into a guild with any level of progression?
    Stop spreading this myth. It only matters if you're in the top 2% - Fucking things up for everyone else to cater to that 2% or just generally horribly guilds that set moronic requirements because they don't understand the game is awful design. Nobody is ever going to get sat / rejected from a Heroic or even a casual mythic guild because they didn't win the RNG lottery. The ONLY time this is a problem is if you're pushing for hardcore Mythic progression which almost nobody, comparatively, is doing.
  1. KefoAtleta's Avatar
    For The Unholy APOC bursting 6 instead of 8 wounds, will that affect the chances of getting the ''9th ghoul'' for the HIDDEN ARTIFACT APPEREANCE or will the chance stay same?
  1. stomination's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Valex View Post
    DPS saying a mitigation trinket is useless makes DPS bad. If you were in a progression raid guild then you would be able to see that the utility legendaries are good for progression, despite not being DPS increases. If you arne't in a progress raid guild then the legendaries aren't doing much for you anyway.

    DPS having the sole objective of doing bigger numbers make the DPS bad, yes.



    Oh really, I joined a progression raiding guild with one utility legendary, I got my second legendary and that was also a utility legendary, I've yet to be benched. Strange.
    what guild?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Stop spreading this myth. It only matters if you're in the top 2% - Fucking things up for everyone else to cater to that 2% or just generally horribly guilds that set moronic requirements because they don't understand the game is awful design. Nobody is ever going to get sat / rejected from a Heroic or even a casual mythic guild because they didn't win the RNG lottery. The ONLY time this is a problem is if you're pushing for hardcore Mythic progression which almost nobody, comparatively, is doing.
    For every person who believes this there are 10 guilds that do it.
  1. Maudib's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by kaalta View Post
    My man can I have your stuff? I just came back to WoW.
    Of course not... I wouldn't want to spoil your experience by handing everything to you on a plate.

    Me before I bought the tokens... :P

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