Artifact Power and Patch 7.2
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Artifact Power has been a hot topic lately, both around the community and within the development team. With Patch 7.2 on the horizon, introducing both new artifact traits and additional Knowledge levels, we have been reflecting on the way the system has unfolded during the first months of Legion, and evaluating changes based on the lessons we have learned thus far.

First off, a look back at where we started.

From the outset, Artifact Power was intended to serve two intertwined purposes: First, it offered max-level progression that was not entirely item-driven, along with choices and elements of character customization as players traversed their trait trees; second, it was meant to serve as a universally desired, consistent reward from all types of content.

In crafting the systems that delivered Artifact Power, we weighed the merits of hard caps versus a smoother system of diminishing returns. We had extensive experience with hard caps, through multiple past iterations of currencies like Valor Points and Conquest Points, and wanted to avoid several of the downsides of that approach. For example, a cap inherently feels like more of an expected quota, where missing a week or falling short of the cap puts you clearly, and potentially permanently, behind the curve.

Instead, as everyone knows, we settled on an open-ended system of diminishing returns. Without any hard caps on how quickly players could earn AP, it was essential to have some sort of limiting mechanism on the gap in power between players of different playstyles, and different levels of time investment. We accepted the admittedly complex design of Artifact Knowledge because it solved this problem, effectively reining in the size of this power gap. Players trying to progress past the expected artifact level for their Knowledge would run into those rapidly diminishing returns, while those who played less than that would have Knowledge as an accelerator to help them catch up to the cutting edge. When Emerald Nightmare was new content, while the average raider was at 20 or 21 points, the most dedicated might have been at 24 or 25 – a relatively modest gap.

Now, where things went wrong…

We feel that we made two major missteps with the Artifact Power system that increasingly manifested themselves as we got deeper into Patch 7.1 and 7.1.5. And both of them served to undermine that core goal of ensuring that the gap between players with different levels of time invested into the system could not grow too large.

First, the cost of ranks in the 20-point final trait remained relatively flat, as opposed to the rapid exponential scaling up to that point. This meant that someone who spent twice as much time gathering AP as I did would have roughly twice as many ranks as me. Instead of the 24 vs. 21 gaps we saw in Nightmare, a number of hardcore raiders entered Nighthold with 54 points, while others were just beginning that final progression and found themselves with nearly 10% less health and damage, equivalent to being almost a full tier of gear behind. Players who switched specs or characters along the way found themselves in a similar position. The power gap was larger than ever before, which created a sense of obligation and a number of negative social pressures that the system had previously tried to minimize. In short: We’re not at all happy with how this worked out.

A common suggestion is to simply reduce the amount of Artifact Power required to fully unlock the artifact in 7.2. This would not solve the underlying problem, but would rather reduce its duration while heightening its intensity, as competitive players sprinted to finish their Artifacts in order to be “ready.” But then we would inevitably tune around that completed power level, and other players would simply be playing catch-up the entire time. And in the long run, Artifact Power would not be serving its intended purpose of ongoing parallel progression. A capped-artifact player who goes a week without getting any item upgrades ends the week literally no stronger than before. Part of the value of the artifact, both for personal progression and guild progression, lies in ensuring that everyone is at least a bit stronger next week than they are right now, and a bit closer to overcoming whatever obstacle stands in their path. Our goal is for Artifact Power to always be of some interest as a reward, whether from a World Quest, or as a consolation prize when failing a bonus roll.

Instead, we are focusing on fixing the mistake of flat cost scaling at the end of the progression, and instead keeping the increases exponential throughout, while also strengthening Artifact Knowledge as a core pacing and catch-up mechanism. These changes should be visible in an upcoming PTR build.

This is done with the primary goal of reducing the power gap based on time investment, while preserving Artifact Power as an endgame reward that everyone values. If the leaders in Artifact Power were only a few points ahead of a more typical player, rather than crossing the finish line when most were just leaving the starting blocks, players with less time to commit would not be as disadvantaged in competitive activities. If a Warlock were choosing between having 48 points in a single spec or 44 points in all three specs if they’d split their efforts evenly, the barrier to playing multiple specs would be significantly reduced. We are still tuning the curve for 7.2 trait costs, but we’re currently targeting scaling such that someone who earns twice as much AP as me will have an artifact that’s only ~1.5% stronger; someone who earns four times as much AP as me should only be 3% stronger. On the whole, this should be a massive reduction in the power gaps we see in the live game today.

The second problem with our initial implementation was that repeatable sources of Artifact Power (Mythic Keystone dungeons in particular) dominated time-limited sources such as Emissary caches and raid bosses. The fact that a large portion of the community evaluates their Artifact Power needs using “Maw runs” as the unit of measurement is ample evidence of this failure. We very recently deployed a hotfix to increase AP earned from Nighthold in order to make raiding, with a weekly-lockout, better compare in efficiency to repeated Mythic Keystone runs. And in 7.2, we’re more thoroughly addressing this issue by adding a significant amount of AP to the weekly Mythic Keystone cache, while somewhat reducing (and normalizing based on instance length) the AP awarded by repeated runs. These changes are being made to narrow the gap in AP earning, and thus power, based on time investment.

All of the above changes are aimed at allowing players the freedom and flexibility to decide how they want to spend their time, and which goals they wish to pursue, while limiting the difference in power between players who arrive at different answers to those questions.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Artifact Power and Patch 7.2 started by chaud View original post
Comments 123 Comments
  1. xogen's Avatar
    Wheres the PvP artifact power boosts?
  1. Granyala's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    @chaud: the design goal is bullshit, really. What's the reason to live in the game if you get like 1% increase over a scrub who mouseclicks and keyboard turns once per month? Bleh, typical blizzard, good design choices at start, but quickly cave in favor of casual scum in next patch or two.
    If you raid mythic, you will do 2-3 times the output of said "casual scum".
    The 10% of artifact won't even make a dent by comparison, which is why I am somewhat confused about Blizzard making a big fuss about it.

    But I guess raider A cried to his mommy because raider B put more time in and got to do a few % more DPS, which is why raider C (who is a raidlead) prefers raider B over raider A.
  1. Gemini Soul's Avatar
    Given their stance on speed of Mythic+ to change AP gains to flatten out the curve some, they should increase the amount gained from the raid drop tokens.
  1. Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    You're smoking crack if you think I would miss a single day of Gen-OT here @ MMOC, this website is the Jerry Springer Show of the internet.
    These laughable WoW threads appear on the index daily.
    In no small part thanks to people such as yourself.

    Just saying, it's pretty "rich" (non-banable term) to call people actually having fun with the game "suckers" for paying 50 cents a day for access but then spend time keeping track of shit regarding the game at every turn yourself.

    I've never accidentally picked information up about games I didn't deem worthy to spend my money/time on, despite the index.
  1. Fabinas's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanj View Post
    Diminishing returns will be a lot worse than a hard cap. Guild leaders will still be able to set the requirement for some trait, it'll just be a much tougher grind, increasing the risk of players comitting Sudoku and go outside their room.

    The hard cap solution is much more comfortable.
    Commiting Sodoku. Suiciding with the power of 9. GG.
  1. Jokerfiend's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by erinthea View Post
    I ran very few Mythic+ quests getting my ap to 54 i did mostly world quests daily quests both pve and pvp emissary and lfr and normal raiding I only started doing mythic and mythic + dungeons maybe the last 8 ap levels and even then it wasn't multiple m+ grinds. I think they are fixing a problem that does not exist.

    Also if someone is willing to put in the time and effort into getting their weapon ap lvl higher they should be rewarded for it.
    Not a chance I believe this;

    I do my Cache, raid NH, LFR NH, run around 10-15 mythic pluses(+5-9) a week since AK25, AND IM ONLY at 43. If you are truly 880-885 geared, because you said you are raiding normal, and artifact 54, I'd like you to prove it. Because, I truly don't believe it.
  1. mmocf7538e98cb's Avatar
    The solution is pretty simple. Just put a weekly cap on how much AP a player can get. Make it work like Conquest Points did. You can catchup next week doing more stuff if you missed on earlier.

    This is the first time wow has gone without a cap in such a major part of the game. Almost anything but M+ and AP gains has a cap. If we keep it as it is hardcore players gonna get burnt out in the long run and the more casual playerbase won't even bother.

    Having a cap is very important in this game. It's what makes players come back every week and stay subscribed. If you give enough content each week no one is going to cry and more importantly no one is gonna get burnt-out that fast. Too much content is not really much better than no content in a game like WoW.
  1. Nevalus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    It's kinda hilarious, that Blizzard gets their panties into a twist about a 10% power difference.
    Meanwhile, a raider has an effective output that is DOUBLE or more compared to a non raider.

    WoWs gear reward system is just broken.
    Because a raider needs to kill gul'dan, who threatens the world. One of the more threatening and powerful beings alive. A non-raider has to kill some vermin and pull a few weeds so someones farm isn't being demolished. Also, raiders get that gear from saving the world while a non-raider gets his gear from pulling said weeds.

    I don't see how it is a problem. Besides, right now you can even get max ilvl bis gear from pulling weeds or doing a normal dungeon with titanforging. So even with all that I just said, the argument is invalid. The chance of getting higher gear as a raider is just higher. As it should be.
  1. Vins04's Avatar
    This just seems like a cap. I'd rather just keep the current current honestly. I am only lvl 52 main and 35 alternative spec.
  1. Zenfoldor's Avatar
    This solution seems perfect. Should allow rerolls and alts to stay at the "mean" while allowing stiff grinders to stay slightly ahead as their raid requires. For the min-maxers, the game isn't designed around them killing themselves for .5% dps increase, so they can do what they feel.

    Perfect for:

    1. Finally being able to use all 3 specs(assuming the legendary token system is going to happen)
    2. Reducing importance of AP grind SIGNIFICANTLY - you do the mean every week, you will be within a couple of percentage points of the best

    So now that Blizzard has negated the need to AP grind and basically will be giving us all the legendaries, and flying in the same patch, and removed the non-gear incentive to grind mythic+, what will they bitch about next? My guess: Muh lack of conteeent
  1. Granyala's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevalus View Post
    A non-raider has to kill some vermin and pull a few weeds so someones farm isn't being demolished.
    Yeah and a non raider facerolls Gul'dan via LFR and saves the world from.. uuh ... fluffy pink teddybears?
  1. mmoc987cc13f6a's Avatar
    The design thinking behind these decisions are funamentally flawed.

    I doubt many people who completed their artifacts, whine over nothing to do. In previous expansions (good and bad ones) we had all the same tasks. We had plenty to do. Therefore, let people get finished with artifact power. Don't come here assuming hell is unleashed if there is nothing to use artifact power on. It would be a blessing if all you did for 7.2, was to give +5 AK with the same 54 levels. Give people a break to focus on other specs, alts or .. Dare i say it .. real life.

    The four doubling increase of AP, only helps to further delude the option of following multiple specs and multiple alts. In no way, does these changes present options for easier reroll of spec or alt, ONLY a four doubled grid, for when this happens.

    Instead of going for the 54 AL as being a fine system, where I with the same time and effort could have gotten one main fully powered in all 3 AND 1 spec on 1 alt or 1 spec on 4 alts, I would now have to pull ALL this effort into one single spec. It's beyond stupid to reason that it should become easier, when infact you make it much harder. I understand your secret desires - keep people hooked to play - but your reasoning is flawed and simply untrue. To conclude:

    The fundamental flaws with AP has only been increased with 7.2, it has not been helped.
  1. Starscream101's Avatar
    The gap and grind for new players coming back is still way to big. And to many grinds just to get world quest open grind for pvp skills grind for artifacts and then if you picked the wrong tree or spec your screwed and it is not very alt friendly i like to play my tank and healer and a dps toon that is way to many grinds to just have fun grinding is not fun.
  1. Nevalus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yeah and a non raider facerolls Gul'dan via LFR and saves the world from.. uuh ... fluffy pink teddybears?
    And proceeds to get titanforged max ilvl gear like any other raider who raids the hardest content. So theres no difference in gear. What point are you making?
  1. Requimortem's Avatar
    "We won't openly admit this is a terrible system so we're going to toy with it and find ways to make it even more unbearable so that we can further alienate our players from one another and lose additional subscribers."
  1. IceMan1763's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerf Irelia View Post
    The solution is pretty simple. Just put a weekly cap on how much AP a player can get. Make it work like Conquest Points did. You can catchup next week doing more stuff if you missed on earlier.

    This is the first time wow has gone without a cap in such a major part of the game. Almost anything but M+ and AP gains has a cap. If we keep it as it is hardcore players gonna get burnt out in the long run and the more casual playerbase won't even bother.

    Having a cap is very important in this game. It's what makes players come back every week and stay subscribed. If you give enough content each week no one is going to cry and more importantly no one is gonna get burnt-out that fast. Too much content is not really much better than no content in a game like WoW.
    Exactly. These devs are making absolute fools of themselves with their stupid design for no reason.

    Have a total AP hard cap. Raise it weekly. Have AK only work when you're behind.

    Fair to everyone and 100X simpler than this over complicated design:

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius --- and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."

    -- Albert Einstein

    PS - The game would actually be better with no further artifact levels... my suggestion is only in regard to how the original 54 should've been handled, if they insisted on having them in the first place.
  1. Glorious Leader's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    It's kinda hilarious, that Blizzard gets their panties into a twist about a 10% power difference.
    Meanwhile, a raider has an effective output that is DOUBLE or more compared to a non raider.

    WoWs gear reward system is just broken.
    Its not very consistent no. Take out AP and replace it with mythic raid gear and the argument fits equally. Talk of freedom to spend your time in game the way you like is really cheap. This is one step back in the road to wod.

    The current system is fine. It needed no modification. The expectation of individuals who essentially want to raid log is unrealistic.
  1. Tankorr's Avatar
    There's a problem on the other end of the spectrum, too.

    If the finish line is way too far away, many people will be too discouraged to participate properly in the race.

    While I like the idea of reducing the gaps, I would have rather they just stopped this whole business after reaching rank 34. I don't want endless/months-long progression just for stats. It isn't fun or engaging.
  1. azurrei's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yeah and a non raider facerolls Gul'dan via LFR and saves the world from.. uuh ... fluffy pink teddybears?
    Not sure how difficulty plays into the telling of a story...oh wait, it doesn't. It's nice that players have a choice in how they want to experience content through difficulty levels - but hey, bashing on LFR is the in thing so whatever makes you feel better about yourself, go for it.

    The irony of course is if LFR didn't exist...guess what? Normal would be treated the EXACT same way LFR is right now. And if it was only Heroic and Mythic? Yep you guessed it - Heroic would be for the "plebs in the eyes of the self conscious, narrow minded players of today's WoW who care more about what other people are doing instead of worrying about themselves.
  1. Nevalus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Its not very consistent no. Take out AP and replace it with mythic raid gear and the argument fits equally. Talk of freedom to spend your time in game the way you like is really cheap. This is one step back in the road to wod.

    The current system is fine. It needed no modification. The expectation of individuals who essentially want to raid log is unrealistic.
    Because you can infinitely grind mythic raid gear.

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