A Found Memento, Serenity Stops Raiding - Players Join Method, Upcoming Raid Testing

Originally Posted by Mic_128

And Knaak isn't? His Mary Sue character defeats Deathwing, marries a beautiful elf, goes back in time and becomes super powerful and a teacher of Illidan, talking with raptors (think that Chris Prat scene from Jurrasic World) and convincing them to be teleported around and fight for him to save the rest of his party as well as things such as Kalecgos falling in love with the Sunwell.

Feel free to say Golden's a bad writer if you wish, but don't complain she's fan-fiction and then say that Knaak was better.

Knaak is an old school epic fantasy writer. He is bad, but he is light years from Golden. He simply writes better and I mean his writing skill, language he is using and general technicalities. Overall I would prefer Knaak's oddities over Christie's tumblr post like smudging.

Originally Posted by Aviemore

Nothing you said disproves my point; largely, because I didn't make one that attributed another top guild folding. I vaguely referred to the PvE progression set up in World of Warcraft, and you've just assumed the rest.

That's a silly way to start your intercession. But the other quote I received helps to build this a little. Let's look at it together.



I suppose an example of arse-number-pulling is as good a place to start as any.

Here's some history:

Cataclysm, tier 11, was maybe the first time this really cropped up. The progression drive was brutal, to the point when even top guilds (Sco, on behalf of Method) argued that it was getting too much. Nihilum, SK, Paragon, Premonition, vodka, Exodus, Midwinter... All of these guilds were competitive until they were forced to cannibalize each other, and now Serenity couldn't keep up with the personnel drive (Method's longevity is extraordinary). Raiding has gotten mechanically much harder, stress on rosters has increased with a lower playing population, organized raiding now has a higher skill floor than ever, and the time demands are getting ramped up by currency grinds that elongate progression well into player burnout.

It's also true that the raiding community is much more than merely its top players. While the race isn't as interesting as it used to be, the top guilds provide a leg up for those below them that need assistance in figuring out how to approach encounters.

All of these points are design incentives created specifically by Blizzard. Top guilds have always eaten each other as time moves on, but the pace is ramping up as a result of the design intent - not in spite of it. Players below that are starting to look for the first exit sign of a raiding treadmill that they're never done with, thanks largely to a never-ending stream of difficulty settings that are wholly unnecessary. And what was the policy for Legion?

Exasperate these issues with a never-ending currency grind, triple or quadruple-random reward vehicles, and a dismantling of effective alt support.

Blizzard really need to look at their approach. They've gotten LFR to the point where it's unnecessary and ready to be removed, while Mythic was always unnecessary. Creating a game that chases the dragon of players that churn through no matter what is hurrying the collapse of the entire endgame dynamic.

Some of this is truth but not all.

Guilds have come and gone in every sector of the game, every single expansion since Burning Crusade. I know the dominant raiding guilds on the realms I've played on, tier to tier almost - they always fall apart eventually - even when they were dominant for an entire expac - that's how teams tend to work - you can't dominate forever.

I don't really see now as any different from before, people tend to play it up, Method are an exception but guilds have fallen around them for ages, it doesn't mean anything.

Originally Posted by Chemii

I don't really see now as any different from before, people tend to play it up, Method are an exception but guilds have fallen around them for ages, it doesn't mean anything.

I think it does, but we're butting heads; there's no empirical evidence either way.

For me, the shattering of a guild is always meaningful because I believe that it always sees players give up and leave. Many players find other guilds to join, because there are always options, but I think a significant percentage are simply lost to the game. The problem is that those players who depart aren't being replaced; they're not being replaced because, at the competitive end, organised raiding is much too difficult for relatively new players to step up to and earn a spot in a top guild. This isn't just the mechanical aspect of encounters becoming much harder, but also the organisational demands that these guilds place on players.

Ultimately, any system is going to have an attrition rate and the evidence seems to suggest that there just isn't enough new blood coming in to stop guilds folding left, right and centre. Until Blizzard stops the hammering of new players by passively telling them that they suck, the feed into organised raiding will remain broken.

Originally Posted by Sorrowful Gondola

Why so much hate for Christie... she is a decent witter.

I mean I guess it depends on your opinion of "decent", personally I could not finish the books by her that I've tried to read.

That feel when the music start at 2:22

Originally Posted by FelPlague

bolded the reason

Yea no not everything is about your sex.

Originally Posted by Thereaperszone

Yea no not everything is about your sex.

DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER!?

This is what happens when good players think they can be good guild/raid leaders. They fall flat on their face. Serenity is the most high-profile example of the tried and true "guild mutiny" play. Serenity committed mutiny, only to fail, as most mutiny/spite guilds do. Note to all raiders out there, just because you are good, doesn't mean you can run a guild. STFU and play, try running a guild yourself, you will fail just like so many others have, including the much-hyped and epic fail guild known as Serenity.