Antorus Raid Release Schedule

Originally Posted by kamuimac

once again lfr players are screwed by greedy blizzard even though they are the ones paying majority of fee for content beling locked out of it for month

no wonder blizzard is barely scrapiing any subs and have to release classis to milk some more cash from players.

LFR players, thats hilarious. LFR is free loot, no brains my man. That's why it's delayed.

Originally Posted by Cavox

Who plays LFR seriously?

I wish they'd remove it permanently, so these "raiders" have to actually go and do normals, which are piss-easy to begin with, but can't just afk bosses.

Well according to Blizzard the majority do and it justifies the raiding development scene.

Why do you want something removed that you don't have to do? Why or how does it affect you that someone is getting considerably lower item level gear?

I'll answer that for you. It doesn't. And thankfully you aren't designing the game because you would end up alienating a lot of players by removing something that is completely optional to you.

According to past dev interviews they stated they want LFR to be just under Normal and KJ was kind of a test when it launched because that had quite a few wipes.

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

Why do you want something removed that you don't have to do? Why or how does it affect you that someone is getting considerably lower item level gear?

OH BOY WHERE DO I START

It's steadily killing raiding guilds since the day it was created. I've personally known a lot of players who came back to WoW, leveled up to [max_level] and did an LFR or two, then got bored and quit again.

You need motivation to raid, LFR is the most demotivating tool I've ever seen. TBC, vanilla and WotLK were great, because seeing a boss was a reward in itself, not a themepark raid you can literally AFK through.
Is it a coincidence that LFR came out at the same time WoW's population started a dive which hasn't stopped since (Cata)? I think not!

And of course the statistics will show that people attend LFR raids. Who wouldn't if there's a chance for legendary items, a way to do without ANY effort your weekly raid quests and get some low level tier sets? The problem is that the "here's a raid and 10 difficulty levels - enjoy!" is a shitty approach, which has been discouraging people who might've been real riders if given a chance and some challenge.
Now WoW became a single-player MMO where you queue do to dungeons, queue to do raids, queue to do pvp not moving an inch from [your_faction's_capital]. But that's another story for another time.

Originally Posted by Cavox

OH BOY WHERE DO I START

It's steadily killing raiding guilds since the day it was created. I've personally knew a lot of players who came back to WoW, leveled up to [max_level] and did an LFR or two, then got bored and quit again.

You need motivation to raid, LFR is the most demotivating tool I've ever seen. TBC, vanilla and WotLK were great, because seeing a boss was a reward in itself, not a themepark raid you can literally AFK through.
Is it a coincidence that LFR came out at the same time WoW's population started a dive which hasn't stopped since (Cata)? I think not!

And of course the statistics will show that people attend LFR raids. Who wouldn't if there's a chance for legendary items, a way to do without ANY effort your weekly raid quests and get some low level tier sets? The problem is that the "here's a raid and 10 difficulty levels - enjoy!" is a shitty approach, which has been discouraging people who might've been real riders if given a chance and some challenge.

Then go play Vanilla when it's out. That's what it will be there for if you believe that it was a much better time for raiding. Although if I recall the devs stated that not enough people were seeing the raids hence LFR.

Right now your statement of LFR should be removed is bordering on arrogance at best.

So because you know a few players that = majority? Yeah no that's not how it works.

Ah yes the usual "let's correlate sub loss to LFR directly" argument. Because I haven't heard that one for the 100 billionth time on this site.

Luckily the devs do not agree with your statement otherwise it would be gone by now. They stated time and time again that without LFR they would not be dedicating as much resources to raiding.

If you don't like LFR don't do it. Simple as that. You are not forced at all. There are plenty of other methods to obtain Legendaries. Oh and the raid quest works off what difficulty you've done. If you only do Normal you will never see a Heroic chest mission for example.

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

Then go play Vanilla when it's out. That's what it will be there for.

I don't want to play Vanilla, because it was shit - yes, I used to play it back in the days. Give me TBC or WotLK servers and I'll seriously consider it.


You literally gave me the "umm... yeah, that's like, your opinion man". I gave you arguments and all you gave me it's "think of the chiiiiildren" stupid shit. People like you are why the WoW's on the decline for so many years.

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

If you don't like LFR don't do it. Simple as that. You are not forced at all.

Which part of "it's bad for everyone" did you not understand from my post?

Originally Posted by Cavox

I don't want to play Vanilla, because it was shit - yes, I used to play it back in the days. Give me TBC or WotLK servers and I'll seriously consider it.


You literally gave me the "umm... yeah, that's like, your opinion man". I gave you arguments and all you gave me it's "think of the chiiiiildren" stupid shit. People like you are why the WoW's on the decline for so many years.



Which part of "it's bad for everyone" did you not understand from my post?

I debated your points. If you cannot handle that then maybe you should not be on an online forum rather than trying to play the "think of the children" card.

The fact is LFR is the reason raiding gets the development time it does. Another fact is that you do not have to do it if you don't want to. Nobody is making you.

Your opinion is that it is bad for the game. You are of the opinion that a completely optional mode has somehow affected your experience. No what has happened is that because a few people you know only do LFR you think that the majority don't progress. You are basing a majority experience off of your experience with a few people you know.

And again it seems to be only bad for you here. You really seem to care that someone gets to see an easier version of the raid in which you do not have to participate in. I told you there are plenty of sources other than LFR besides Legendaries. So no you don't have to run LFR at all.

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

I debated your points. If you cannot handle that then maybe you should not be on an online forum rather than trying to play the "think of the children" card.

The fact is LFR is the reason raiding gets the development. Another fact is that it has zero effect on you and it's your own issue. Another fact is that you do not have to do it if you don't want to. Nobody is making you.

And again it seems to be only bad for you here. You really seem to care that someone gets to see an easier version of the raid in which you do not have to participate in. I told you there are plenty of sources other than LFR besides Legendaries. So no you don't have to run LFR at all.

Thinking raids wouldn't get developed as much without LFR is stupid and you should feel stupid. Post source if you would be so kind, because it's some kind of gold-medal tier of mental gymnastics.
You've either not read my posts or are retarded. I'll leave it with that.

Originally Posted by Cavox

I don't want to play Vanilla, because it was shit - yes, I used to play it back in the days. Give me TBC or WotLK servers and I'll seriously consider it.


You literally gave me the "umm... yeah, that's like, your opinion man". I gave you arguments and all you gave me it's "think of the chiiiiildren" stupid shit. People like you are why the WoW's on the decline for so many years.



Which part of "it's bad for everyone" did you not understand from my post?

WoW is on a decline because content changing, attitudes from people are changing and the people who liked TBC and so on, a lot are not subbed for varies reasons that are unimportant to your arguement. LFR is just another tool for people to use in the game. If people are bored and quitting because of LFR, the problem isn't LFR, it's the people coming back to play. You can't force entertainment and if they are bored because of LFR, there are other games or even other things in-game they can do. You can just ignore LFR (I do mainly) and play just fine. Most pugs "put in the effort" just fine.

Originally Posted by Cavox

Thinking raids wouldn't get developed as much without LFR is stupid and you should feel stupid. Post source if you would be so kinds, because it's some kind of gold-medal tier of mental gymnastics.
You've either not read my posts or are retarded. I'll leave it with that.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ine-Blue-Posts

LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR.

You were saying?

So again. It's stated right there from an interview that LFR justifies the creation of more raid content aka more development resources put towards it.

Where did I say they would barely be developed? I said it was LFR that justifies the amount of increased development raiding has had over the years.

Originally Posted by Jasperline

WoW is on a decline because content changing, attitudes from people are changing and the people who liked TBC and so on, a lot are not subbed for varies reasons that are unimportant to your arguement. LFR is just another tool for people to use in the game. If people are bored and quitting because of LFR, the problem isn't LFR, it's the people coming back to play. You can't force entertainment and if they are bored because of LFR, there are other games or even other things in-game they can do. You can just ignore LFR (I do mainly) and play just fine. Most pugs "put in the effort" just fine.

Why would anyone put any effort it something they might enjoy if they try (normal/hc raids) if you have an easy-mode version at the tip of your queue button? How hard is it to understand? I don't get it.

"b-but it doesn't affect you, let the casuals play as they like". IT DOES AFFECT ME, THE GUILDS, THE COMMUNITY AND THE GAME ITSELF.

Originally Posted by Cavox

Why would anyone put any effort it something they might enjoy if they try (normal/hc raids) if you have an easy-mode version at the tip of your queue button? How hard is it to understand? I don't get it.

"b-but it doesn't affect you, let the casuals play as they like". IT DOES AFFECT ME, THE GUILDS, THE COMMUNITY AND THE GAME ITSELF.

Again it affecting a few of your friends shows no proof of it affecting a majority.

And no it really doesn't affect you. Keep pretending it does though and somehow someone getting an 895 from KJ LFR is the end of the world as we know it.

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ine-Blue-Posts
You were saying?

So again. It's stated right there from an interview that LFR justifies the creation of more raid content aka more development resources put towards it.

I was saying it's mental gymnastics, but ok - you gave me source for that statement. It doesn't mean it's right. Of course Blizzard agrees with you and others defending LFR - that's what I'm disagreeing with. Blizzard isn't always right - just look at the state of world PvP, declining subs.

And no, the game is old, but that's not the reason people are quiting it. It looks fine and could be 12M+ subs again if Blizzard stopped making a feel-good game for people who play 30 minutes a week and went back to the challenge they lost in WotLK.

My point about LFR being bad still stands. You want to disagree? Fine.

Originally Posted by Cavox

I was saying it's mental gymnastics, but ok - you gave me source for that statement. It doesn't mean it's right. Of course Blizzard agrees with you and others defending LFR - that's what I'm disagreeing with. Blizzard isn't always right - just look at the state of world PvP, declining subs.

And no, the game is old, but that's not the reason people are quiting it. It looks fine and could be 12M+ subs again if Blizzard stopped making a feel-good game for people who play 30 minutes a week and went back to the challenge they lost in WotLK.

My point about LFR being bad still stands. You want to disagree? Fine.

Ah so you ask for a source, given a source and now it's suddenly not correct because of your own biased opinion towards LFR?

Yeah it's clear there is no reasoning with you especially when you yourself asked for evidence on the matter.

And no your point about LFR being bad is an OPINION. Not a fact.

You are not forced into LFR and your anecdotal evidence of a few friends does not represent a majority.

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

Ah so you ask for a source, given a source and now it's suddenly not correct?

That's not what I said. Go ahead and try again. This is why I'm telling you, that you're seeing my posts, but you're not READING them. You're like a feminist who hears a man just to find offensive words, but isn't thinking about the meaning of the words.

Originally Posted by Cavox

That's not what I said. Go ahead and try again.

You are essentially dismissing a provided source because of your own vitriol for LFR.

But thankfully you or I don't design the game and LFR is here to stay for those who want it. Because I wouldn't trust me or half this forum to armchair design the game at all.

Which means when it's fully open I'm going to grab my 4 set and any minor upgrades and probably hit a Normal pug like I did with ToS.

Although I'm not sure if those OP trinkets drop in LFR. Will probably try and snag one for alts but not going to put a huge time commitment on them since I don't really like that part of the effect doesn't work in outdoor content.

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

You are essentially dismissing a provided source because of your own vitriol for LFR.

But thankfully you or I don't design the game and LFR is here to stay for those who want it.

I'm saying that you were right - Blizzard employee said what you said he said (hue). I'm not dismissing the fact what he said. I'm saying he's talking out of his ass in my opinion.

Have you ever met anyone who plays the game for LFR?
I've met tons of people who play for mythic raids.

And yes, it's anecdotal evidence again, but it builds my perspective on the game.

Oh and are we ignoring the titanforging fact? Or are you saying you can't drop 920+ ilvl items from LFR? Because you can.

Originally Posted by Cavox

I'm saying that you were right - Blizzard employee said what you said he said (hue). I'm not dismissing the fact what he said. I'm saying he's talking out of his ass in my opinion.

Have you ever met anyone who plays the game for LFR?
I've met tons of people who play for mythic raids.

And yes, it's anecdotal evidence again, but it builds my perspective on the game.

Oh and are we ignoring the titanforging fact? Or are you saying you can't drop 920+ ilvl items from LFR? Because you can.

Titanforging which relies on luck yes?

How about we stick to the base item level of each raid? Because Titanforging can happen in ANY difficulty. It's not LFR exclusive. And I see no issue with a possible upgrade happening in LFR. It creates a replay mechanic for those that want to do it without forcing you into it. Relinquished gear actually helps this situation as well due to how easy it is to farm.

And I've met people who play the game for all kinds of content. Some are pet battlers, some are LFR players, Mythic Raiders, Gladiator PvP players, Casual PvP players and so on. My perspective is built from my own opinion of the game. That's it really. I don't judge LFR like you do based off a few players I know.

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

Titanforging which relies on luck yes?

Yes, and...?

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

How about we stick to the base item level of each raid? Because Titanforging can happen in ANY difficulty. It's not LFR exclusive.

Which only proves Blizzard is full of stupid ideas in their sleeves. Along with legendaries it's a retarded mechanic. I get their arguments for "it gives people a reason to do dungeons and farm raids". What I'm saying that's stupid as hell. If only it was like max +5 ilvls and/or a socket gem that would be ENOUGH, but no, let's go to the extreme.
I'm a mythic raider - my guild farms 4 mythic ToS bosses (people quit the game, so our progress stopped and we can't transfer, because Blizzard wants us to pay real money for something other games have for free). Do you know how I feel when I see some shitter, who's never seen an inside a mythic ToS running around with a higher ilvl than me, because he was "lucky"? It feels like "why should I even bother".

Not to mention I can't seriously tank with my warrior, because I was "unlucky" enough not to drop the bracers yet.

Blizzard is full of retarded ideas. You remember garrisons and how they DESTROYED the economy? Are you enjoying your crafting professions, like LW, BS and Tailoring? Oh boy do I.

I hope you've really met people for play FOR LFR and aren't just mistaking them with people who do LFR for the reasons I've stated before.

Originally Posted by Cavox

Yes, and...?



And I've met people who play the game for all kinds of content. Some are pet battlers, some are LFR players, Mythic Raiders, Gladiator PvP players, Casual PvP players and so on. My perspective is built from my own opinion of the game. That's it really.


Which only proves Blizzard is full of stupid ideas in their sleeves. Along with legendaries it's a retarded mechanic. I get their arguments for "it gives people a reason to do dungeons and farm raids". What I'm saying that's stupid as hell. I'm a mythic raider - my guild farms 4 mythic ToS bosses (people quit the game, so our progress stopped and we can't transfer, because Blizzard wants us to pay real money for something other games have for free). Do you know how I feel when I see some shitter, who's never seen an inside a mythic ToS running around with a higher ilvl than me, because he was "lucky"? It feels like "why should I even bother".

Not to mention I can't seriously tank with my warrior, because I was "unlucky" enough not to drop the bracers yet.

Blizzard is full of retarded ideas. You remember garrisons and how they DESTROYED the economy? Are you enjoying your crafting professions, like LW, BS and Tailoring? Oh boy do I.

I've always stated I'm not fond of Titanforging. I mean I wish it would go back to 6 item levels. Titanforging still only offers a chance which means you aren't forced into it. Base item level for each raid is enough to progress. Titanforging is essentially a bonus except they went a bit over the top with it.

And on the transfer note. Which other MMOs let you transfer for free out of curiosity? ESO uses Megaserver so there isn't a transfer, FF14 costs £12, GW2 is paid and the only free one I know of is Rift but well that game is meh. I'm trying to think of other games but I can't off the top of my head and Rift is the only one that comes to mind.

And I agree. I wasn't too fond of Garrisons either. Not because of the crafting but because of the Legendary being tied to it a little to try and keep it going. I actually enjoyed the crafting catch up mechanics because I had a lot of lowbie crafters I wanted to level for a while which the Garrison enabled me to do.

Just the shipyard really frustrated me due to those Legendary missions. And them just rubbing in Farahlon with that stupid pearl item.

Originally Posted by Cavox

I'm saying that you were right - Blizzard employee said what you said he said (hue). I'm not dismissing the fact what he said. I'm saying he's talking out of his ass in my opinion.

Have you ever met anyone who plays the game for LFR?
I've met tons of people who play for mythic raids.

And yes, it's anecdotal evidence again, but it builds my perspective on the game.

Oh and are we ignoring the titanforging fact? Or are you saying you can't drop 920+ ilvl items from LFR? Because you can.

Each time a titanforge item would drop for me from LFR i would dedicate it to you, my easily offended friend