Controversial Sombra Changes and New Hero
A new patch is live, with changes to a few heroes, including Sombra.

This article was originally published in forum thread: Controversial Sombra Changes and New Hero started by chaud View original post
Comments 16 Comments
  1. The Stormbringer's Avatar
    What's the controversy? That she can't cap/hold points while invisible anymore, or that her translocator can be killed?
  1. Jessicka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    What's the controversy? That she can't cap/hold points while invisible anymore, or that her translocator can be killed?
    That she's slower in Stealth, which means taking the 'long way around' instead of making certain jumps; and that for these nerfs, the pace of the game is such that she gains basically nothing from infinite durations on her Stealth and TL. TL being destroyable is pretty bad too, since it's always been fairly obvious and now you have to place it in even more obscure places, which again, means further out the fight.

    All this means she's spending longer out of the fight on longer flanking routes and longer TL setup locations, while none of her issues are fixed and she still has a lot of bugs, in fact some new ones have been reported. More time out the fight means less impact, less ult charge. Meanwhile, none of her real issues like lack of damage, lack of Hack alerts to team mates, and lack of in-combat utility have been addressed.
  1. Yvaelle's Avatar
    So Sombra's one of my most played DPS, here's what I see:

    Translocator infinite duration is a massive, game-changing, quality of life improvement for her, but it's not exactly a buff. Formerly the Sombra OTP's were comfortable making 15 second plays, so the functionality of longer translocators was mostly lost on them, and a boon to noobish Sombra's who could overstay their translocator window and get trapped behind enemy lines or in the thick of the fray.

    However, one thing that always bothered the hell out of me was, even if I was comfortable making 15 second plays and using my translocator to escape on the last second, if things are going well - and I want to stay and keep fighting - it was too dangerous before: so you translocate out, wait 4 seconds, drop your translocator again, and run back in.

    With the infinite duration translocators, I don't have to tunnel vision my translocator timer anymore, and if things are going well - I can stay and fight as long as I want - and only translocate out when someone starts shooting at me: this is a massive quality of life improvement to Sombra's tempo. If there was literally one thing I could change to Sombra's kit before, it was this - and now it's live and it's fantastic.

    Infinite duration stealth. This was unneeded, fast short stealth was all I really needed to get where I wanted to be and start shooting enemy Ana in the back of her head. Now that it's infinite duration it encourages Sombra to stay stealthed forever - where before she needed to think about when she needed stealth, and had to move fast to get into her flanking position and make a play - it encourages Sombra to play slower because now she's got time, where before you had to move fast, think fast, act fast. Infinite duration stealth doesn't feel right, and IMO it's unneeded.

    50% stealth sprint. This is not as bad as people pretend it is, 1) it only dropped from 175% to 150%, which is not as big as people pretend, 2) with infinite duration you can sprint 50% longer duration and cover the same ground, 3) if you are running back from spawn you are definitely going to get back into the fight faster moving at 150% speed 100% of the time than at 175% speed for like a quarter the time - people seem to be wholly ignoring this - but it's huge - Sombra's death penalty is now the shortest in the game.

    Stealth detection radius doubling. This is what sucks about new stealth. Before I could sneak quickly through guarded doorways unknown to the enemy team, now they know I'm behind them and defend their Ana's, or they start splashing the ground behind them and knock me out of stealth, etc - this is by far the worst bit of new stealth.

    Overall, what I would like to see done:

    - Keep the new translocator changes
    - Revert all the stealth changes
    - Reduce her clip size by 25% (60 down to 45), but buff her damage per bullet by 25% (from 8 to 10)


    The change to machine pistol means she bursts faster (encouraging her to go for squishies and be an assassin), but she does the same overall damage per clip. This means she needs to get in close and be accurate. It also means she's about 40% better versus armor in close range, where currently her bullets do just 3 damage into armor even pointblank, now they would do 5. This armor change is particularly impactful when firing beyond 15 meters (Sombra has very short fall-off) where her already tiny 8 damage rounds get reduced to 5 damage and do 0 damage into armor. They would still be completely nullified by armor after about 25 meters - so you won't see Sombra spraying across the map ever - but that's a big quality of life improvement, and allows her to actually hurt Brigette without walking into melee with her just to even dent her armor.
  1. RaoBurning's Avatar
    I never really played Sombra that often, but I've been having a lot of fun with her after the changes. She's a lot like playing a Rogue now, I guess, and that's pretty neat.
  1. dlaiyre's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    So Sombra's one of my most played DPS, here's what I see

    ...
    This is a good read and I just wanted to say thanks.
  1. serendipity11's Avatar
    I agree with a lot of your points but not on stealth. She is more like a rogue now and people spending most of the time in stealth are just trolls seriously. If you ever played WoW rogues can stealth infinitely but they also do so to not be seen and get a stealth attack in. It should be much the same for Sombra. People shouldn't be in stealth any longer then they need to be. I wish they would revert the change on stealth detection because it half defeats the purpose of unlimited stealth. But people shouldn't feel super hyper rushed all the time especially quick play players. While you should still feel that rush even without a timer as a comp player because you need to be doing something not just derping in stealth and even with infinite stealth a comp player should be paranoid about every second they're wasting in stealth while casual players can take the extra time to line up a good stealth attack. She can ultimately move objectives and respawn faster with it how it is now and it's great. Like if they were to give her stealth a duration again I'd think they'd need to greatly reduce it's cooldown because unless you were a highly skilled player it was easy to mis-time your stealth and be screwed. I believe most heroes should be easy to learn difficult to master and I think playing her skillfully was very difficult before it was all about timing and poorer players just couldn't do well with her at all because of that. And even then she was hardly a popular pick in comp because highly skilled players still only make her a mediocre choice.

    I do agree on the damage increase completely. And I love the new translocator.
  1. Sparklelord's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    So Sombra's one of my most played DPS, here's what I see:

    - Keep the new translocator changes
    - Revert all the stealth changes
    - Reduce her clip size by 25% (60 down to 45), but buff her damage per bullet by 25% (from 8 to 10)


    The change to machine pistol means she bursts faster (encouraging her to go for squishies and be an assassin), but she does the same overall damage per clip. This means she needs to get in close and be accurate. It also means she's about 40% better versus armor in close range, where currently her bullets do just 3 damage into armor even pointblank, now they would do 5. This armor change is particularly impactful when firing beyond 15 meters (Sombra has very short fall-off) where her already tiny 8 damage rounds get reduced to 5 damage and do 0 damage into armor. They would still be completely nullified by armor after about 25 meters - so you won't see Sombra spraying across the map ever - but that's a big quality of life improvement, and allows her to actually hurt Brigette without walking into melee with her just to even dent her armor.
    There is so much wrong with your post I am just going to start here for now and let it sink in before I go further.

    Very minor but I saw no mention of her translocator being destroyable in your post. Is this something your okay with or did you even know it?

    Now to the meat and potatoes:
    The damage changes you proposed (clearly you have no idea how percentages work) are a net nerf (huge, actually)
    60 shots at 8 damage each would yield 480 total damage, 960 if all critical.
    45 shots at 10 damage each would yield 450 total damage, 900 if all critical.
    So 30 damage nerf. Though, not huge because you're bursting faster. Still a damage nerf though.
    but wait, there's more...
    Armor:
    Whenever armor takes damage, it halves the incoming damage of each projectile up to 10 damage. Projectiles that deal more than 10 damage gain a flat 5 damage reduction. This scaling means that firing multiple low damage projectiles (like a shotgun) will do less damage than firing one high damage projectile.

    Critical hits double damage before any armor reduction, and each instance of damage can only be reduced by armor once. Temporary armor does not differ from normal armor apart from being given through hero abilities and not being able to be healed.
    So you said that the 8 damage is reduced to 3, which is just not true. Actual damage would be something closer to:
    60 shots at 8 damage each would yield 480 total damage through armor (660 damage through armor, all critical hits).
    45 shots at 10 damage each would yield 225 total damage through armor (675 damage through armor, all critical hits).

    Yeah, real bang up job there champ.

    As you can see, the only time the damage change proposed is actually an increase is with 100% crits through armor (good luck with that).

    Just food for thought, if you want more I can give it to you. I don't even play Sombra, your post was just highly offensive from a mathematical/logic stand point. Make changes like that and call it a buff heh...don't piss down my back and call it rain...

    edit: almost forgot this little nugget:
    "The change to machine pistol means she bursts faster (encouraging her to go for squishies and be an assassin), but she does the same overall damage per clip."
    As it is, your losing damage against armored targets. Outright, if you want more damage, faster rate of fire is the way to go, not less bullets/more damage (outside of maybe buffing her damage from 8 to 9).

    edit: Forgot this cause I suck:
    So, damage in that 45 shot window would be increased:
    45 shots at 8 damage each would yield 360 total damage, 720 if all critical.
    45 shots at 10 damage each would yield 450 total damage, 900 if all critical.
    net increase of 180 damage against soft (no armor) targets in a 45 shot window

    45 shots at 8 damage each would yield 360 total damage through armor (495 damage through armor, all critical hits).
    45 shots at 10 damage each would yield 225 total damage through armor (675 damage through armor, all critical hits).

    So, all in all, not really a buff or a nerf, least when it comes to armor which was my main point.

    All in all, doing the math, I think the change is better overall for damage against squishies and crits through 45 shot windows.

    idk I'm tired lol. could have saved a lot of energy had I just said "that's not how armor works" instead of all this napkin math shit
    carry on
  1. Twizzlers's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparklelord View Post
    Whenever armor takes damage, it halves the incoming damage of each projectile up to 10 damage. Projectiles that deal more than 10 damage gain a flat 5 damage reduction.
    You seem to be having trouble with the word "halves", 45*4=180 and not 360. You'll note that 180 is less than 225. There is no scenario in which higher base projectile damage results in less damage per shot. The only relevant math you got right was that a full clip will do less damage.
  1. Will-I-am's Avatar
    There were some major bug fixes as well gonna put them here:

    GENERAL

    -Fixed a bug that caused the group leader’s UI to appear that they’re canceling or leaving Waiting for Players when using a controller
    -Fixed a bug that prevented players from receiving an AFK warning for not moving after receiving the No XP warning for not being in combat
    -Fixed a bug that caused Competitive Elimination to display as your last match played in the Recent Players menu
    -Fixed a bug that prevented players added to Avoid as Teammate from being removed if that player was added to their friends list

    AI

    -Fixed a bug that caused Torbjörn bot to continuously try upgrading his turret when placed in an inaccessible location.

    CUSTOM GAME

    -Fixed a bug that prevented groups electing to spectate from being placed into the Spectator section of the Custom Game they’re trying to watch.

    ENDORSEMENTS

    -Fixed a bug that caused the Team Information screen to display an Endorsement level of a player who left the game
    -Fixed a bug that prevented the Endorsement input from opening the Endorsement tray if it shared that input with another input
    -Fixed a bug that prevented the Nearby Players menu from displaying Endorsement levels
    -Fixed a bug that caused the text for the Sportsmanship Endorsement to bleed outside the chat box

    GAME BROWSER & CUSTOM GAMES

    -Fixed a bug that allowed heroes to deploy multiple barriers or turrets when a decreased cooldown modifier was applied in a Custom Game
    -Fixed a bug that caused players to sometimes spawn into a wall or floor when playing a Deathmatch Custom Game with Respawn as Random Hero enabled

    HEROES

    General

    -Fixed a bug that prevented heroes from playing a hit reaction animation when shot

    Ana

    -Fixed a bug that prevented Ana’s Naptime achievement from being granted when interrupting Moira’s Coalescence
    -Fixed a bug that caused Ana’s Sleep Dart effect to persist on afflicted targets after changing heroes

    Brigitte

    -Fixed a bug that prevented Brigitte from dashing forward when using Shield Bash if she was airborne due to Doomfist’s Rising Uppercut
    -Fixed a bug that caused Brigitte’s portrait to show a non-existent ponytail with her Shieldmaiden skin equipped

    Doomfist

    -Fixed a bug that caused Doomfist’s Rocket Punch to stop if he hit Symmetra’s Turret when it was in midair
    -Fixed a bug that prevented Doomfist’s Meteor Strike from hitting Reinhardt if he faced his Field Barrier upward
    -Fixed a bug with Doomfist’s Rocket Punch that prevented it from canceling Genji’s Cyber-agility, Lúcio’s Wall Ride, or Hanzo’s Wall Climb on impact
    -Fixed a bug that prevented Doomfist’s Meteor Strike impact visual effect from occurring
    -Fixed a bug that caused Doomfist to plummet to his death if he used Meter Strike in the basement of the Château Guillard Deathmatch map

    D.Va

    -Fixed a bug that prevented D.Va’s mech rear hatch from connecting to her mech when viewing D.Va’s Peace Victory Pose.

    Genji

    Fixed a bug that caused Genji’s kneepad to clip into his legs when wearing his Classic skin
    Fixed a bug that caused Genji’s knees to pop while shifting his weight during his idle animation in the Hero Gallery

    Hanzo

    -Fixed a bug that sometimes caused Hanzo’s Dragonstrike projectile to fire backward

    Junkrat

    -Fixed a bug that prevented Junkrat’s Frag Launcher grenades from dealing the correct amount of damage on direct hits
    -Fixed a bug that allowed Junkrat to set multiple Steel Traps in Custom Games
    -Fixed a bug that prevented teammates from viewing Junkrat’s respawn timer if he died while piloting RIP-Tire
    -Fixed a bug that allowed the player to move the camera when Junkrat’s RIP-Tire was frozen
    -Fixed a bug that caused Junkrat’s Frag Launcher grenades to get stuck in certain terrain

    Mei

    -Fixed a bug that caused Mei’s Ice Wall to be destroyed if Sombra hacked her

    Mercy

    -Fixed a bug that caused Mercy's Cadeceus Staff and Cadeceus Blaster to appear missing when using quick melee and weapon swap simultaneously.
    -Fixed a bug that allowed Mercy to damage boost certain abilities (e.g. Hanzo’s Dragonstrike, D.Va’s Self-Destruct, and Junkrat’s Steel Trap)

    Moira

    -Fixed a bug that prevented Moira’s Healing Orb from healing friendly training bots in the Practice Range
    -Fixed a bug that prevented Moira’s Biotic Orbs from trigging controller vibration when using a controller

    Reinhardt

    -Fixed a bug that prevented Reinhardt’s Charge from propelling him forward if he was airborne due to Doomfist’s Rising Uppercut

    Roadhog

    -Fixed a bug that allowed Roadhog’s Chain Hook target to be pulled to his new location when he used Symmetra’s Teleporter

    Sombra

    -Fixed a bug that allowed Sombra to push and contest payloads while invisible
    -Fixed a bug that caused parts of Sombra’s Translocator to be invulnerable
    -Fixed a bug that allowed Sombra to reach unintended locations

    Symmetra

    -Fixed a bug that prevented Symmetra’s Turrets from displaying a red outline when viewed by the enemy team
    -Fixed a bug that caused Reinhardt’s Earthshatter to sometimes go through Symmetra’s Photon Barrier
    -Fixed a bug that prevented Symmetra’s Teleporter from using visual effects with her Oasis skin equipped
    -Fixed a bug that allowed Symmetra to receive credit toward her Huge Success achievement if she teleported her Sentry Turrets
    -Fixed a bug that prevented Symmetra’s Photon Barrier from destroying existing ones when placing a new one in Deathmatch
    -Fixed a bug that allowed Symmetra’s Sentry Turrets to shoot enemies through walls when placed on uneven surfaces
    -Fixed a bug that caused Symmetra’s Teleport telegraph to cancel if she fell off a ledge while placing it

    Tracer

    -Fixed a bug that allowed Tracer to gain capture point progress during her Recall ability

    Zarya

    -Fixed a bug that prevented Zarya’s Particle Cannon from gaining energy when attacked by an enemy Symmetra or Zarya if they were too close to her when she used Particle Barrier

    Widowmaker

    -Fixed a bug that prevented Widowmaker from grappling to some walls
  1. TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    It also means she's about 40% better versus armor in close range, where currently her bullets do just 3 damage into armor even pointblank, now they would do 5. This armor change is particularly impactful when firing beyond 15 meters (Sombra has very short fall-off) where her already tiny 8 damage rounds get reduced to 5 damage and do 0 damage into armor. They would still be completely nullified by armor after about 25 meters - so you won't see Sombra spraying across the map ever - but that's a big quality of life improvement, and allows her to actually hurt Brigette without walking into melee with her just to even dent her armor.
    I don't disagree with much on your post, however you do seem to have an incorrect understanding how armor works. Armor reduces each instance of damage by 50%, with a cap of reducing damage by 5 points per instance of damage. If falloff is making your bullet damage drop to 4 or 5 per bullet, it is going to do 2 or 2.5 damage to armor, it will not reduce to 0.
  1. zito's Avatar
    Fixed a bug that allowed Symmetra’s Sentry Turrets to shoot enemies through walls when placed on uneven surfaces
    This bug started in Sym 3.0 PTR when she was first being tested, they just NOW fixed it? Jesus Christ, shows how much they are rushing things now a days instead of testing (her M1 is still garbage)
  1. Jessicka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    This bug started in Sym 3.0 PTR when she was first being tested, they just NOW fixed it? Jesus Christ, shows how much they are rushing things now a days instead of testing (her M1 is still garbage)
    I'm pretty well convinced the OW team just don't have a QA department at this point. Not only is balance as poor as its ever been, but the bugs are becoming increasingly noticeable and frustrating, there's a lot of new issues with Reinhardt as if he wasn't bugged enough already and Sombra's Hack now breaks if the target uses any movement ability, regardless of tracking from the player.
  1. ShadowAlpha's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post


    [...] (encouraging her to go for squishies and be an assassin) [...]
    Blizzard and the video have stated, they don't want Sombra to be an assassin. She is suppose to fill a role, imo, similar to Tracer. To be the ever present distraction that pulls DPS or Tanks away from the main fight to deal with you or to waste time looking for you all the time.
  1. A-sayo's Avatar
    Something I don't understand out of all these "bug fixes" :

    -Fixed a bug that allowed Mercy to damage boost certain abilities (e.g. Hanzo’s Dragonstrike, D.Va’s Self-Destruct, and Junkrat’s Steel Trap)
    That's something that has been in the game since Mercy existed. So far, it felt like something that was "working as intended" and they now call it a bug ? They should have put that in the hero changes instead, because that's a massive nerf.
    Also in that case, shouldn't they change Ana nanoboost and Orisa supercharger as well ? Because both of them have the exact same interactions.

    For those who don't know what I'm talking about, you could boost Hanzo so that the Dragonstrike damage gets amplified while it was active, baby Dva when she was using self-destruct (leading up to 1300 dmg instead of 1k at blank point).
  1. Yvaelle's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowAlpha View Post
    Blizzard and the video have stated, they don't want Sombra to be an assassin. She is suppose to fill a role, imo, similar to Tracer. To be the ever present distraction that pulls DPS or Tanks away from the main fight to deal with you or to waste time looking for you all the time.
    The distraction is that if DPS/tank don't peel me off their carries after I get behind enemy lines, their healers will be assassinated. So really the difference between their term a "distraction" and an "assassin" is perspective. It would be like saying, "We don't want to Reinhardt and Orisa to be considered tanks, we want them to be Walls that cause the enemy team to have to avoid a choke or change their team comp to burst through it, so they are Wallers now". They are walls to the enemy team, they are tanks to their healers/dps: it's just perspective. Sombra is an assassin to enemy healers, and a distraction to enemy tanks/dps: same for Genji and Tracer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I don't disagree with much on your post, however you do seem to have an incorrect understanding how armor works. Armor reduces each instance of damage by 50%, with a cap of reducing damage by 5 points per instance of damage. If falloff is making your bullet damage drop to 4 or 5 per bullet, it is going to do 2 or 2.5 damage to armor, it will not reduce to 0.
    Ya your right. So an 8 damage Sombra bullet pointblank does 4 damage into armor (not 3 like I thought), if it were buffed to 10 it would do 5 damage (25% improvement vs armor point blank, not 40%). With fall off it would do lets say 4 damage at about 20 meters, armor wouldn't do the -5 reduction because the damage is so low, so it would go by the -50% rule and do 2 damage, not 0. TIL thanks

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparklelord View Post
    Very minor but I saw no mention of her translocator being destroyable in your post. Is this something your okay with or did you even know it?
    People are obsessing over it but it's pretty much a wash IMO. Before it meant you could TP back whenever you wanted and nobody could stop you, but now it means instead of TP'ing back to find a Tracer/Genji/Moira camping your translocator, they just kill it - so at least when your translocator dies you know you need to divert from your invade and go deal with that (and that your base is not safe).

    Even though not being able to rely on your translocator to always get you out is a nerf, having fewer instances of TP'ing back with 1hp to find a Tracer waiting for you is basically a buff IMO.

    Just food for thought, if you want more I can give it to you. I don't even play Sombra, your post was just highly offensive from a mathematical/logic stand point. Make changes like that and call it a buff heh...don't piss down my back and call it rain...
    idk I'm tired lol. could have saved a lot of energy had I just said "that's not how armor works" instead of all this napkin math shit
    carry on
    Yea I didn't know that armor reduction on projectiles below 10 deals 50%, and isn't affected by the -5 rule that applies to projectiles above 10 damage. Responded to TEHPALLYTANK above who also caught that. Just straight up didn't know because it feels like it does literally 0 into armor at range: Mea Culpa.

    That said, most of your math is wrong, and highly offensive!
    (Specifically that you are halving the damage of 10 damage shots, and not doing the same for the 8 damage shots, through pretty much the entire post).
  1. Sparklelord's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Twizzlers View Post
    You seem to be having trouble with the word "halves", 45*4=180 and not 360. You'll note that 180 is less than 225. There is no scenario in which higher base projectile damage results in less damage per shot. The only relevant math you got right was that a full clip will do less damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I don't disagree with much on your post, however you do seem to have an incorrect understanding how armor works. Armor reduces each instance of damage by 50%, with a cap of reducing damage by 5 points per instance of damage. If falloff is making your bullet damage drop to 4 or 5 per bullet, it is going to do 2 or 2.5 damage to armor, it will not reduce to 0.
    lol I was exhausted and misread. Was reading it as any shots over 10 were reduced by half haha. I knew it never reduced it to 0 though, would have been silly. I do understand it better now though so thanks. I'll take my dunce cap now, thx.


    I mean, either way, it was a decent change. My math is 100% accurate, just using the wrong formula :<

Site Navigation