What to do at Level 120, Battle for Azeroth Soundtrack on Spotify, WoWcraft

that's amazing carbot.

Originally Posted by Cavox

I thought we're supposed to move forwards, not backwards. You know saying "yeah, this expansion is worse than Legion in terms of starting content" is a bad thing, right?


I don't care if you have better ways of spending times than playing video games. I care that I'm being timegated from the content. 40 hours of content is 40 hours of content even if you spread it across a month. Blizzard isn't fooling anyone. Why do you care if I blow my load over a week?

"If they had more to do - most players would be punished for playing only "20hrs" a week."
WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? Who was ever punished in this game for having too much to do? I mean... split raids perhaps, but that's another topic with a completely different problem at its roots. So you (a hypothetical person) didn't make it to 120 in a week and you missed out a week of warfronts or mythic+ runs.
SO.WHAT?

You know why timegates exist in WoW? Let me tell you.

There are people who play an hour a day and they would "feel" bad or left behind. But because they're paying customers as well we can't have inequality of outcome in a video game, so let's put a bar that doesn't let anyone through until mr. casual player has enough time to catch up, so when the bar is removed everyone starts to nibble at the new content at the same time - both mr. Iplayalot and mr. Iplaylittle.
You know why that sucks? Because it's not rewarding to anyone, and even better - it's punishing people who have to wait at the bar for weeks to get to play the content promised on the box of the game. Remember vanilla, TBC and wrath? You know, when timegating and LFR wasn't a thing, nobody cared how much/little you play and the game was at the height of popularity? These were the good days.

in your example mr. Iplaylittle would care a lot and they are likely the bulk of paying customers now, the mmo genre and scene has changed TBC. WoW has adapted to it, vanilla should provide some insight if the old formula would still work or not, personally i don't think it would long term.

World of Grindcraft: Battle for Reputation Points

You know, leveling would have been a lot more satisfying if I didn't have to focus so much on getting 7th Legion Exalted so I can play Dark Iron Dwarves. I don't even want to know what silly requirements I'll need to play a Kul Tiras Human. Let's grind for something we already paid for! -_-

Originally Posted by JacobusRex

World of Grindcraft: Battle for Reputation Points

You know, leveling would have been a lot more satisfying if I didn't have to focus so much on getting 7th Legion Exalted so I can play Dark Iron Dwarves. I don't even want to know what silly requirements I'll need to play a Kul Tiras Human. Let's grind for something we already paid for! -_-

Yeah, the grind to exalted for sub-races we paid for is a nauseating "feature". They should be locked behind a quest chain, done, end of story. Not a grind.

"Mythic 0 dungeons are available. Make sure you complete all 10 dungeons weekly. They reward item level 340+ gear."

Im 335 and still dont know how to 'do' all 10 mythics, I was under the impression there is a quest chain for each one?

Originally Posted by Cavox

There are people who play an hour a day and they would "feel" bad or left behind. But because they're paying customers as well we can't have inequality of outcome in a video game, so let's put a bar that doesn't let anyone through until mr. casual player has enough time to catch up, so when the bar is removed everyone starts to nibble at the new content at the same time - both mr. Iplayalot and mr. Iplaylittle.
You know why that sucks? Because it's not rewarding to anyone, and even better - it's punishing people who have to wait at the bar for weeks to get to play the content promised on the box of the game. Remember vanilla, TBC and wrath? You know, when timegating and LFR wasn't a thing, nobody cared how much/little you play and the game was at the height of popularity? These were the good days.

The problem with this thought process is the attitudes of the "elite" in this game as it moves forward in each content release. Right now, the "Need BIG DICK dps/heals/tank" crowd is ruining this game and forcing the time gating. As the crowds in the game thin even further over time, it will only get worse. My point being is, if the time sink players all move to power level say 500, and the casuals are all sitting at 310 - 330 it promotes an exclusionary game play mentality. The bare minimum to be excepted raises, leaving out a vast majority of players. Throw PVP elements into that disparaging difference and it gets worse. The constantly moving bar of item level in this game basically makes IL nearly irrelevant in the end and makes a linear curve like guild wars 2 make much more sense. And they can then stop with the friggen IL squishes constantly. They just need to tune things properly.

But back to my point, it comes down to the fact this is a sub based game model, not a single player game with DLC. It takes time to develop content, and releasing it as it becomes available with a 6 month "buffer" in case of problems is a wise business model. The only real winners are Blizzard and people that can be happy getting what they are given in the game that is OPTIONAL in life and deal with it without getting their panties in a bunch bitching about it. If a game makes you unhappy, go play something else. If the game makes you happy and you want more, patients is a virtue you will just need to have. Or if it bothers you that much in life to have things the way you want them, go out and make your own game.

@Cavox: And yet timegating was around in all those examples you gave. :P

People's expectations did change a bit, because there's simply more to do for the players that didn't have time to play so much. But timegating has always been part of the game and pretty much every mmo, because it is simply not possible to craft enough content in the pace the players consume it, even the average player. There also a big difference between good and bad time gating, where the bad is the kind where you really notice it's only there for that, no ingame impact except a toggle. So I do think timegating such things as LFR parts are very silly and shows an insecurity with their content on blizzard's part; it's okay to delay LFR a bit but to cut it up is very silly, and if they feel the need to do that they should redesign LFR.

Originally Posted by Cavox

Let's not pretend there's more content than there really is, ok?

Not sure why you read a list of things to focus on as pretending there's more content than there is. Sounds like projecting.

Originally Posted by Cavox

As you see basically what you really CAN or SHOULD do at 120 at the moment is:
- WQs (rep, gear, AP),
- dungeons (gear, AP) Why are mythic dungeons still weekly locked? So we don't have too much to do I bet,
- professions,
- pvp,

Your colorful mythic commentary aside, this is no different than the list you'd have put together for Legion. Scratch that, you took Island Expeditions off because you think they're inefficient because they're not helpful after the 6/7 to get the weekly bonus. So the list is longer than Legion.

Originally Posted by Cavox

Island Expeditions are the worst way to farm AP after you get the weekly bonus. It's quicker to do WQ and farm rares btw. So much for "the most efficient way to farm AP", Ion.

Interesting caveat you put on this so you could piss on it.

Originally Posted by Cavox

Enough to say after doing all mythic dungeons this week all I'm left with is doing WQs and hc dungeons (even though my chances for upgrades from them are low).
I SURE AM HAPPY ABOUT TIMEGATING CONTENT TO PUNISH ME FOR PLAYING THE GAME MORE THAN YOUR AVERAGE CASUAL GAMER.

No different than Legion.

Also, in another post I think you comment about playing 40 hours. How much gameplay do you get out of another game? Chances are, you've gotten your money's worth already.

Also, also, if you know you don't fall into the average player category, wtf are you expecting? Blizzard, or any game developer, has to prioritize building their game to meet the playstyle of the bulk of its players, not the exceptions to the rule. They aren't going to cater to you at the expense of the majority of their playerbase. Expecting otherwise is naive and selfish at best. If you can't accept this concept, this is not the game for you.

7500k rep in honored is not required to enter mythic siege of boralus can confirm it. just did the Jaina questline and can enter with only 4k rep.

It's funny how they have to post what you can do at endgame since everything looks terrible and pointless.

Want to farm some meaningless stuff so you farm more meaningless stuff with a side of meaningless stuff?

Even the rewards are trash.

Originally Posted by drbatman

Im 335 and still dont know how to 'do' all 10 mythics, I was under the impression there is a quest chain for each one?

Only 2 are gatted. You just form your group and go in...

Previous expansions had something new to offer:

Legion: class hall stuff for each class, new class
WoD: garrison stuff
MoP: new race and class
Expansions before MoP: nothing was account wide and game was slower paced, so simply playing alt was enough to keep people occupied. Also raids were available since start.

So there was something to do.

BfA has nothing unique, its a rehash of Legion, but with some stuff taken out and nothing new to replace it. Laziest expansion to date.

you need to complete all quet chapter on your side 3 zones, then do the following quest that should ask you to do multiple dungeons, and unlock your side MM only dungeon
and you need 7500 rep into honored in the war campaign faction to do the previous to last chapter of the war campaign that'll unlock the other side's MM dungeon

Mmo champion should post this week's dark legacy comics.
Its amazing! ...ly true lol

Originally Posted by Ealyssa

Only 2 are gatted. You just form your group and go in...

which 2? kings rest? and ?

I did siege of boralus on ally side.

Originally Posted by Cavox

I thought we're supposed to move forwards, not backwards. You know saying "yeah, this expansion is worse than Legion in terms of starting content" is a bad thing, right?


I don't care if you have better ways of spending times than playing video games. I care that I'm being timegated from the content. 40 hours of content is 40 hours of content even if you spread it across a month. Blizzard isn't fooling anyone. Why do you care if I blow my load over a week?

"If they had more to do - most players would be punished for playing only "20hrs" a week."
WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? Who was ever punished in this game for having too much to do? I mean... split raids perhaps, but that's another topic with a completely different problem at its roots. So you (a hypothetical person) didn't make it to 120 in a week and you missed out a week of warfronts or mythic+ runs.
SO.WHAT?

You know why timegates exist in WoW? Let me tell you.

There are people who play an hour a day and they would "feel" bad or left behind. But because they're paying customers as well we can't have inequality of outcome in a video game, so let's put a bar that doesn't let anyone through until mr. casual player has enough time to catch up, so when the bar is removed everyone starts to nibble at the new content at the same time - both mr. Iplayalot and mr. Iplaylittle.
You know why that sucks? Because it's not rewarding to anyone, and even better - it's punishing people who have to wait at the bar for weeks to get to play the content promised on the box of the game. Remember vanilla, TBC and wrath? You know, when timegating and LFR wasn't a thing, nobody cared how much/little you play and the game was at the height of popularity? These were the good days.

Those were good old days, yes. Kaelthas unkillable for months because hotfixes did not exist. They waited for actual patches to fix shit.
You are hearing what you want to hear. Stuff should be done for an average player, making small catchups for players who cant play a lot and some challenging content for player who play more: myhtic raiding and high m+. There was never an expansion where you did not run out of new things to do. Not even legion. You would have done everything in week one if that was not gated and then complained how there is nothing to do. While people were talking that there is even too much.
Blizz never support unhealthy gaming.

Originally Posted by KingMavros

7500k rep in honored is not required to enter mythic siege of boralus can confirm it. just did the Jaina questline and can enter with only 4k rep.

7.5k Honored 7th Legion is for the opposing factions dungeon.

Alliance get the Jaina questline, which unlocks Siege. They need 7.5k/12k to unlock King's Rest

Horde get their questline, which unlocks King's Rest. They need 7.5k/12k to unlock Siege.

Originally Posted by VXBlade

Yeah, the grind to exalted for sub-races we paid for is a nauseating "feature". They should be locked behind a quest chain, done, end of story. Not a grind.

Agreed. It's just stupid and exhausting.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Binki

Previous expansions had something new to offer:

Legion: class hall stuff for each class, new class
WoD: garrison stuff
MoP: new race and class
Expansions before MoP: nothing was account wide and game was slower paced, so simply playing alt was enough to keep people occupied. Also raids were available since start.

So there was something to do.

BfA has nothing unique, its a rehash of Legion, but with some stuff taken out and nothing new to replace it. Laziest expansion to date.

We share the exact same view point.

The rep grind would be fine if rep was universal across our alts. As it is it's kind of frustrating and means I'm just focused on a single character (maybe later a horde alt). I suspect they'll bite the bullet at some point and make King and Siege universal unlocks at the very least.

As for the rest... REALLY not sold on the island expeditions which feel like a chore rather than gameplay. The world quests feel okay atm as they're helping for the rep/gear grind. Once that's over I suspect they're going to be largely ignored by people - the rewards aren't particularly appealing and the mob health is too high which makes completing them feel pretty grindy (and I say that as someone with 330 gear who does them with his wife).

On a plus side. the mythic level instances are great (as ever) and have really enjoyed diving into those.

Originally Posted by Binki

Previous expansions had something new to offer:

Legion: class hall stuff for each class, new class
WoD: garrison stuff
MoP: new race and class
Expansions before MoP: nothing was account wide and game was slower paced, so simply playing alt was enough to keep people occupied. Also raids were available since start.

So there was something to do.

BfA has nothing unique, its a rehash of Legion, but with some stuff taken out and nothing new to replace it. Laziest expansion to date.

That isn't entirely true, but what they added isn't very compelling in its current form. Warfronts and the foundation of procedural adventures and dungeons in the Island Adventures. Both could potentially be game changers if integrated right, but they currently are very bare and grindy. World quests are kinda lame in the current form. They are just the same quests you do on your adventure through the story.
They should make unique ones for them and add to them as time goes on. I enjoy WQ in games like FF14 and GW2, but WoW's seem grindy and even worse if you play alts... then you REALLY get sick of those quests fast.