Upcoming Auction House Deposit Changes
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
To address some issues related to the Auction House, we’re reconsidering how deposits—the refundable fees you pay to list your auctions—are calculated. This fee is based on the item’s vendor price, and for profession materials in particular, vendors offer very low prices, so these mats have a low deposit cost. Deposits are substantial on items such as BoE uncommon gear, gems, and so forth, but not trade skill materials (trade goods such as cloth, ore, leather, etc.).

One thing we’ve identified as particularly troublesome is a large volume of trade skill materials being auctioned off in stacks of 1. Some addons make posting quantities of this size trivial to do, resulting in dozens, if not hundreds, of pages of auctions for a single item. As we looked at ways to change this behavior and improve the overall Auction House experience, we found that we prefer to avoid inflexible solutions such as caps on the number of listings a player can make, or increased minimum stack counts, which might interfere with many players' common gameplay habits.

Our current plan is to increase the deposit cost of some profession materials on a per-stack basis, which should provide incentive for players to post items in larger stacks.

Here's an example:

  • Let’s say that a player is trying to sell 200 Tidespray Linen for 10g (gold) each. Today, each item has the normal deposit cost of 1c (copper), with a 1s (silver) minimum deposit, so 1 auction of 200 linen requires a deposit of 1s, and 200 auctions of 1 linen each adds up to a total deposit of 2g.
  • Now imagine an additional 20% deposit added to the listing fee per auction. With an asking price of 10g each, that raises the deposit by 2g per stack. In the case of 1 stack of 200 linen, the total buyout price is 2000g, and the new deposit is 2g1s. In the case of 200 individual stacks, the new deposit of an additional 2g per stack brings the total deposit up to 402g.

In either case, the deposit is returned to the seller if the item sells. Successful auctions aren’t affected by this change.

Our goal is to give players some forewarning on this change, and to gather feedback. We’re putting together a list of the items that would be affected by this deposit change, which we expect to be limited to high-quantity trade goods. Furthermore, we’re deploying the change to the PTR first, so that addon authors can work through the change while we test it thoroughly.

This change will likely be a temporary measure, as we’re also working to broadly improve the default Auction House in the future. It’s clear to us that many players use addons because they find the default Auction House interface inadequate. A temporary change to deposit fees will help with this in the short term, and we’ll continue to work on overall improvements to the Auction House for a future patch.

World Quest Exploit Actions
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
It seems that the frenzy of this WQ exploit is propagating a ton of misinformation, like 3 day bans going out and whatnot.

Here's a real rundown:

A WQ exploit was discovered (since hotfixed) that allowed one to get the rewards for completing a WQ, yet flag it has having not been completed, creating a cycle where one could gain the rewards over and over again, be it raw gold, gear, resources or most commonly, reputation.

As far as I can tell, no official action has been taken yet against anyone, and that is likely due to the scale of damage done.

This exploit undermined gearing (repeating gear quests for titanforges), economy (Raw gold, materials/expulsom from scrapping gear), and reputation gates (jumping to exalted on every rep in a day versus the intended few weeks). It's a massive amount of damage. Thousands of gold and reputation, tons of ilvls, resources, etc.

Action will be taken. Unlike the cooking spices exploit that simply allowed people to powerlevel cooking, or the early Legion AP exploit that saw people get their AP reset that were fairly contained in scale, this exploit was effectively an item and gold dupe with far reaching impact.

It's my personal opinion that anyone who abused this should be given a permenant ban, as it's clear this exploit circumvented and undermined multiple game systems for unfair benefit.

Please stop spreading rumors that this was only a reputation exploit and that people are only getting 3 day temp bans for it. It's false information and the issue is much more serious than that.

We are indeed aware of this exploit and have been working on a fix. We are also taking action against those who are abusing it.

Blue Posts
Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
Outdoor Mob Scaling Issues
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do have the ability to feel stronger, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer while you're doing it and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.

He isn't on the dev/design team. He is providing his feedback as a player.
Exactly. I'm just sharing what exactly my experience was when going through it both times and they both felt the same. I'm leveling a Warlock next so I'm interested to see the difference it makes as a clothie. I'll probably share my thoughts on that experience too but from my guildies they didn't even notice the scaling hardly at all even as a caster.

Casters do have it worse than melee.
Yeah this is what I'm interested in testing out myself and seeing how different it feels.

I'm curious, have you ever played an elemental shaman? If so, how was your questing experience compared to other classes/specs?
Elemental is usually always my second alt that I use for alt night raiding. I haven't quested with him yet but I plan on doing that one after Warlock. Historically for me it's always been fine, little slower obviously but still fine.

this was never an issue in older expansions.

people leveled to max level, and had fun when they got gear and stomped everything in the older content. that's what an mmo is, you get strong and go back and have fun lording over all the stupid crap you had to fight before.

The point is it was an issue that always was there but you didn't pay much attention to it as a player nor really care too much about it to be honest. I didn't notice it either until the dev team had pointed it out. It seemed like something they always wanted to try to fix it or change it but never had the chance until now with the scaling tech they have now.

It feels good to get stronger, to see your avatar in this world crush your foes, and it feels very good to get gear and get upgrades, that's a core feature of an MMO, there is no debating that or changing that. What's great though is being in a place where the content can be as relevant as possible and the rewards still match your time investment. One of the things Ion talked about with this system is that the health pool of open world mobs does get a little higher with your ilvl, but you get stronger in a faster pace. It's not making them infinitely stronger than you or making them comparative to you forever, its just a little bump at the beginning. By the time you're hitting 320 you are already far outpacing them at least from my experience.

I think its a good topic to be aware of and concerned about and I 100% get the concern and agree that going overboard does counter a core feeling of the game, but if the beginning, middle, and end of the system still end with you being able to have that character progression and feel yourself progress then I think the system can work. When it doesn't is where you have the problems and of course the team doesn't want that. Which is why they ask for specifics on any issues you're finding so they can address them and fix it if needed. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
This article was originally published in forum thread: Upcoming Auction House Deposit Changes, World Quest Exploit Actions, Blue Posts started by chaud View original post
Comments 81 Comments
  1. mmocfcaf3fcb85's Avatar
    Oh boy, I expected more from the AH fix. Well 1000 stack of 2 items incoming ...
  1. Loveliest's Avatar
    Can anyone explain to me why people list items one by one? I mean I don't get it. It made sense when AH listed by price and not by item per unit and you'd put it at higher price and it would show up on top. But I see pages and pages of 1 that are actually cheaper than if you would buy a stack. So I don't get it? I mean if you put it cheaper than the rest why wouldn't you put an entire stack cheaper? I make gold by buying off 1s and selling them in more expensive stacks so...
  1. mmoceb1073a651's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    Can anyone explain to me why people list items one by one? I mean I don't get it. It made sense when AH listed by price and not by item per unit and you'd put it at higher price and it would show up on top. But I see pages and pages of 1 that are actually cheaper than if you would buy a stack. So I don't get it? I mean if you put it cheaper than the rest why wouldn't you put an entire stack cheaper? I make gold by buying off 1s and selling them in more expensive stacks so...
    They probably want to push the orders from the competition further behind, so people who are too lazy to scroll will buy their stuff first. I don't know. While having various stacks is sometimes nice to have as a buyer (because sometimes you just need a small amount to get one item done, or a handful of items, and sometimes you need a huge amount because you have to craft much more), I found it quite a hassle to list many offers as a seller. Though, I have not been selling much in the AH since the beginning of Legion...
  1. TehTemplar's Avatar
    But people still buy the 100x1 item stacks if they are at a good price. This will do absolutely nothing.
  1. Loveliest's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by maccajoe View Post
    Yea people did do that meanwhile they also complained why i curb stomp everything quick and old content is irreverent so fast. Now its not so fast people complain its so slow.
    Yes. I remember from beta, people moaning leveling is too easy and they should make everything harder. How people want to feel like the world is 'dangerous' and need to group up etc.
    You'll get complaints either way, though I think most people actually like things being easier. That's why automated grouping tools are so popular - quests are a means to an end, not a lot of people like slogging through killing 250k life mobs (that scale) to suck some 15% progress for your WQ.
  1. mmoc2c76a5889b's Avatar
    How are you supposed to sell expensive shit like enchanting crystals, if you are only allowed to sell them in stacks of 10? How many people are looking to buy enchanting mats for 50k at a time?
  1. Loveliest's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by scubistacy View Post
    They probably want to push the orders from the competition further behind, so people who are too lazy to scroll will buy their stuff first
    Maybe. Myself, even before I used an addon, would scroll through pages and buy the first stack. And a lot of my friends did / do the same. I'd actually like to see the person who says - I'm lazy to click through the 36 pages, but I'll buy the 70 cloth I need one by one. I'd wager the only ones who buy the 1s are people who use TSM, but I may well be mistaken.
  1. vsb's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    Maybe. Myself, even before I used an addon, would scroll through pages and buy the first stack. And a lot of my friends did / do the same. I'd actually like to see the person who says - I'm lazy to click through the 36 pages, but I'll buy the 70 cloth I need one by one. I'd wager the only ones who buy the 1s are people who use TSM, but I may well be mistaken.
    I'm using standard AH and macro to speed up buying out (basically buying out without confirmation). I can buy the entire page pretty fast. But my realm is not huge like Draenor, so each buyout takes few seconds to approve and entire page takes 1-2 minutes. Honestly, Auctionator is overhyped and it could do a better job without all those rescannings.
  1. Kataroku's Avatar
    The default auction house UI won't display the cheapest auction first regardless of your column sort preferences.
  1. Acidbaron's Avatar
    How long should the ban be? The time they gained so if it takes a few weeks to get all that reputation and gear etc, plus an added penalty for exploiting based on account standing.

    So 2 months missing the entire end game content start seems a fair start point. Will prevent them from trying the same stuff next expansion.
  1. Easo's Avatar
    How about finally updating the AH itself? Pretty please?
    P.S.
    And no selling that as a new feature...
  1. Khama's Avatar
    Guild wars 2 auction house system is so much better.
  1. antico's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Swarzey View Post
    Or or or just add a filter (quantity range) for players to remove seeing those walls.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    exactly my thought ! the simplest solution
  1. mmoc7ab228a6a0's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Banquetto View Post
    Trade goods should sell on a stockmarket-like system, like in Guild Wars 2 or EVE Online.

    If you're selling 2000 Tidespray Linen for 10g each.. you're selling 2000 Tidespray Linen for 10g each. Whether that's 10 stacks of 200 or 2000 stacks of 1 should not even be a question. It should simply be "2000 x Tidespray Linen". And buyers should be able to buy any quantity from that, from 1 to 2000.

    Next step, allow people to set up buy orders for tradegoods. Now you've got a real market.
    That's too much common sense for them. If it took them this long to recognise a problem with 1 stack auction botters how long will it take for a proper market system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    The AH spammers won't be touched by the deposit, because it is refundable.
    They will when people are undercutting them.
  1. EbonBehelit-'s Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Khama View Post
    Guild wars 2 auction house system is so much better.
    Yes. Yes it is. That Blizz hasn't incorporated it into WoW is all the more surprising: taking good mechanics from other games is something Blizzard generally does pretty well.
  1. Teri's Avatar
    If the AH gets truly revamped someday I might be happy.

    Short-Term solution like this is years too late.

    This change shouldve been implemented whenever they increased the stack sizes to 200.
  1. mmoce026f1ce64's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by pts99 View Post
    How are you supposed to sell expensive shit like enchanting crystals, if you are only allowed to sell them in stacks of 10? How many people are looking to buy enchanting mats for 50k at a time?
    did you not read the change? you can still thing sell things 1 by 1 but it'll cost slightly more to list them

    also in the case of enchanting this change would be aimed at the dust and not the shards. only certain materials are being affected, things like Dust and Ore that you need in larger quantities
  1. Pacster's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    My 290 DH is destroying mobs, I can take packs of 5-8 enemies and kill them in under 5 seconds

    Doing WQs on a Shadow Priest is depressingly slow.
    Im so happy I ain't playing. It's like Blizz is making the same mistake over and over again. Do they believe that shadows are masochistic or something?
  1. Eleccybubb's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacster View Post
    Im so happy I ain't playing. It's like Blizz is making the same mistake over and over again. Do they believe that shadows are masochistic or something?
    It's not that they made the same mistake.

    It's that they didn't listen to Beta feedback yet again and now we have to wait until 8.1 for any major overhauls.

    Just for once they need to stop using Beta as a platform for self promotion and actually use it for proper testing.
  1. axxey's Avatar
    Don't you love " I'm leveling a Warlock next so I'm interested to see the difference it makes as a clothie. I'll probably share my thoughts on that experience too but from my guildies they didn't even notice the scaling hardly at all even as a caster."
    I'm leveling the tankiest of all casters but I'm really interested to see the difference it makes! Facepalm.

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