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Upcoming Warlock Changes - Patch 8.1
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
  • In an upcoming build, the Demonic Tyrant will also extend the duration of any demons summoned from the Nether Portal level 100 talent.

Can you clarify something? Will it only extend the duration when Tyrant is cast? As in we need to portal, summon as many as possible, and then Tyrant for it to have any effect? Or can we Tyrant, Nether Portal, and chain summon with the extended duration kicking in as they are summoned? I'm presuming it's the former and not the latter.

The Demonic Tyrant extends the summon duration of all demons that are currently active when the Demonic Tyrant is summoned. Demons summoned after the Demonic Tyrant has been cast do not get the duration extension.

All demons, regardless of whether they were active before the Demonic Tyrant summon, or if they were summoned afterwards, should still benefit from the area damage buff (currently 15%) that the Demonic Tyrant provides while the Demonic Tyrant is still active.

A few more changes you will see in an upcoming PTR build:

On the current live version, there is an issue where pets are gaining bonus Energy regeneration from the Warlock's Haste stat at twice the expected value. This is already fixed in the 8.1.0 PTR build and has been for many weeks now. We have made some adjustments to keep the relative value of your pet similar to what it is on the live version:

  • Felguard, Felhunter, Succubus, and Voidwalker pets have had their damage scaling from the Warlock's Spell Power increased by 15%.
  • Imps have had their spell power scaling from the Warlock's Spell Power increased by 25%.

Another recent change we made was to reduce the duration of the Nether Portal talent from 20 seconds, down to 15 seconds. In an upcoming build, the damage of all demons that can come from the Nether Portal has been increased by 25%.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Upcoming Warlock Changes - Patch 8.1 started by chaud View original post
Comments 30 Comments
  1. Mazinger-Z's Avatar
    Shmexy. Can't wait to get them pushed.
  1. Jimmyw's Avatar
    at least they are looking at demonology. maybe it will be in a playable state come next xpac!
  1. okteej's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyw View Post
    at least they are looking at demonology. maybe it will be in a playable state come next xpac!
    Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's possible I'm wrong, I don't play warlock) but Demonology is at 5th (345ilvl) and 4th (390ilvl) on the Noxxic dps rankings list. What is it about Demonology that makes it unplayable, because it's clearly simming at a high dps rate?
  1. Reforge's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by okteej View Post
    Noxxic dps rankings list.

    OMEGALUL /10char
  1. AwkwardSquirtle's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by okteej View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's possible I'm wrong, I don't play warlock) but Demonology is at 5th (345ilvl) and 4th (390ilvl) on the Noxxic dps rankings list. What is it about Demonology that makes it unplayable, because it's clearly simming at a high dps rate?
    Dated source aside, sims are less useful than logs. Doesn't matter how well you sim if the fights don't cater to your strengths.
  1. Vanquinn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by okteej View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's possible I'm wrong, I don't play warlock) but Demonology is at 5th (345ilvl) and 4th (390ilvl) on the Noxxic dps rankings list. What is it about Demonology that makes it unplayable, because it's clearly simming at a high dps rate?
    This actually has a pretty simple answer. Sim dps =/= practical dps.

    For more detail, Demo has been one of the highest simming dps classes for a very long time, even in legion when it was the worst spec it was the highest simming. Now, I don't know exactly how blizzard does their adjustments, but if you look at the 100th percentile on warcraft logs (which I'm hoping they use to adjust dps numbers since 100% is the goal) Demo is still in the bottom 4 with Feral, Unholy and Marksman all being just under them. This is about a 20% dps difference from the top dps to bottom, and while some classes have their niche, it's still quite a difference.

    Affliction and Destro shine more than Demo even in single target, which is Demos true niche. Target swapping is next to impossible for Demo as well. Honestly most of these numbers still won't help the spec practically. Since many of it's issues lie within the mechanics of the class itself. Even though Demo is one of the most fun specs in game right now (By so many peoples standards it's insane.) They just can't get it to perform no matter how much they buff it due to mechanical issues. Instead they're bandaiding the problem.

    I hope that helps!

    Edit: By the way when looking at dps numbers use warcraft logs and not icyveins/noxxic.
  1. ONCHEhap's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by okteej View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's possible I'm wrong, I don't play warlock) but Demonology is at 5th (345ilvl) and 4th (390ilvl) on the Noxxic dps rankings list. What is it about Demonology that makes it unplayable, because it's clearly simming at a high dps rate?
    Noxxic has been an unreliable source since WotLK
    It is really bad
  1. oathy's Avatar
    Void's were brilliant before BFA launched
    the amount of time keep them alive is a joke.
    when I saw the news item really thought there might be something about rifts being added back for destruct locks
    via talent and losing soul fire.
  1. Razaron's Avatar
    Glad locks are getting some attention, shame they can't focus on the class that needs the most. Where's the shaman enhancement changes? No where. 5 weeks before 8.1 goes live, lets see if Ion is true to his word.
  1. oathy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Razaron View Post
    Glad locks are getting some attention, shame they can't focus on the class that needs the most. Where's the shaman enhancement changes? No where. 5 weeks before 8.1 goes live, lets see if Ion is true to his word.
    it really is shambolic, Totally get what you are saying this close to going live
    those changes on all the classes should be there now. Or is that the reason that guy came back
    who was working on the specs before?

    This is what baffles me all the focus on new races. Some of the classes/specs right now
    honestly wouldn't want to level a new one. My Shammy is level 65 and just stopped totally when BFA launched
    its just awful
  1. Torto's Avatar
    I was hoping they would try and make demo viable in pvp. Not sure how they could do that...
  1. ctrlaltwalsh's Avatar
    simulationcraft.org /reports/T22_Raid.html has them at fifth as well.

    Question still stands, what makes them so bad right now?

    Too many plates to spin for pathetic human brains?

    warcraftlogs.com /character/id/17672221?mode=detailed&zone=19#metric=dps

    Is parsing really nice logs?
  1. CuchuCachu's Avatar
    "Yea Demonology became terrible so Demon Hunters could feel cool, but I dont see why you'd be mad at losing out on Zandalari Warlocks"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrlaltwalsh View Post
    simulationcraft.org /reports/T22_Raid.html has them at fifth as well.

    Question still stands, what makes them so bad right now?

    Too many plates to spin for pathetic human brains?

    warcraftlogs.com /character/id/17672221?mode=detailed&zone=19#metric=dps

    Is parsing really nice logs?
    I think it's a lack of versatility. The concept, not the stat.

    And yes actually a lot of complexity that you essentially need special addon setups to cope with is not an advantage.
  1. AwkwardSquirtle's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ctrlaltwalsh View Post
    simulationcraft.org /reports/T22_Raid.html has them at fifth as well.

    Question still stands, what makes them so bad right now?

    Too many plates to spin for pathetic human brains?
    Movement. Demo can deal with movement to an extent, but not as well as affliction can. There are also some issues with short lived single mobs-it's not well suited to Vectis, for instance.
  1. Alcsaar's Avatar
    I feel like none of this actually makes Demo any better in practice..
  1. mmocc0ad021917's Avatar
    You should never rely on sims for dps unless it's for literal dummy targets. All they will ever show are very rough estimates for encounter types and since some mechanics aren't always predictable such as KJ's Armageddon placements and the reliability of your team, the numbers are simply way off and rely on per pixel perfect precision play but sims don't take certain things into account such as phase switching, cheesing, target switching and any other moments of downtime where dps averages will drop as more seconds pass without any damage being delt due to things like this.

    A demo's problem is not exactly numbers, we do need a buff but it's more to do with pet bugs and mechanic design since long casts of which we are made of can't be cast on the move and need resetting if something changes such as a target going immune or some sort of debuff phase so you waste 2 seconds, stop cast, reposition to dodge floor stuff and then begin casting again. That would be a total of 4-5 seconds of zero damage being delt.

    There's a plethora of suggestions to fix our class in every single crevice of error and inability but Blizzard developers simply begrudge us and make us follow their vision instead. It's kind of understandable when you're talking about someones baby (their passion project) but I also sense that there's a real lack of any passion being poured into warlocks since the beginning of WoD. An interview recently confirmed that Warlocks as a class were literally an afterthought, and although quite well fleshed out for vanilla, was always there as a placeholder class for Deathknight mechanics and Demon Hunter mechanics. So there you have it.
  1. CuchuCachu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    I feel like none of this actually makes Demo any better in practice..
    It wont unless Demo just does a lot more damage than other specs can, but Demo's issue is it cant move and the Demons are essentially difficult to cast DoTs, restricting it to slow damage build up on limited targets

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Abacabb View Post
    You should never rely on sims for dps unless it's for literal dummy targets. All they will ever show are very rough estimates for encounter types and since some mechanics aren't always predictable such as KJ's Armageddon placements and the reliability of your team, the numbers are simply way off and rely on per pixel perfect precision play but sims don't take certain things into account such as phase switching, cheesing, target switching and any other moments of downtime where dps averages will drop as more seconds pass without any damage being delt due to things like this.

    A demo's problem is not exactly numbers, we do need a buff but it's more to do with pet bugs and mechanic design since long casts of which we are made of can't be cast on the move and need resetting if something changes such as a target going immune or some sort of debuff phase so you waste 2 seconds, stop cast, reposition to dodge floor stuff and then begin casting again. That would be a total of 4-5 seconds of zero damage being delt.

    There's a plethora of suggestions to fix our class in every single crevice of error and inability but Blizzard developers simply begrudge us and make us follow their vision instead. It's kind of understandable when you're talking about someones baby (their passion project) but I also sense that there's a real lack of any passion being poured into warlocks since the beginning of WoD. An interview recently confirmed that Warlocks as a class were literally an afterthought, and although quite well fleshed out for vanilla, was always there as a placeholder class for Deathknight mechanics and Demon Hunter mechanics. So there you have it.
    well one fix was to not break Demo for the sake of Demon Hunters. Specifically the issue with Demo is the new focus on Demon Spawning as the central mechanic and moneymaker is simply inherently inefficient. Old Demo had Demon Generation be a marginal side activity, that works better.
  1. huldu's Avatar
    There will *always* be a class/spec at the bottom. There isn't a single mmo out there that is perfectly balanced. You guys remember daoc? It's probably one of the best mmos that was ever made. It had 45 classes. You'd think they copy&paste the templates across the *3* factions but you'd be wrong. The armsman had little in common with the warrior and hero. Anyways my point is unless your game only has 1 class. Good luck balancing it. The more you try the more you break things, take it from Mythic. They know far too well how quickly you'll break your game and make people stop playing. That's basically where Blizzard has been going all these years.
  1. Freestyle80's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyw View Post
    at least they are looking at demonology. maybe it will be in a playable state come next xpac!
    Dont complain just because you are too shit too play Demonology
  1. Th3Scourge's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    I feel like none of this actually makes Demo any better in practice..
    Except demo is already a fantastic spec?

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