Matchmaking Update - December 21, 2018

I guess after the announcement of entering maintenance the amount of players decreased a lot and they had to make this changes so the queue wouldn't increase more as more ppl got bored and quit.

Personally, experience afterwards is horrible. Its hard to take a match serious when you have abathur and TLV on your team.

Glad this change was implemented

"With the release of the Call of the Nexus, we have seen a significant increase in match quality (in terms of meta composition)"

Bull-fucking-shit.

The game quality increased so much that i prefer to play AI games and i am looking into Smite or Dota to replace HoTS.

Maybe their metrics show things differently, but right now it's increased queue times for the same quality of games. You still get absurd combinations since the playerbase isn't what it used to be so you essentially you have to wait 5 to 6 minutes for a game and 1 out of 4 if you're lucky might be enjoyable to play (win or lose)

Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity

Just can't make people happy. Either every quick play team isn't a perfect meta composition or the queue times are too long.

(Just. Fucking. Play. Draft. People.)

Draft is played by being flexible, specially at higher ranks. You cannot go in a game thinking I'm drafting X hero(Whitemane for example), as your lineup might need a tank or a brusier, or the hero might be banned etc. You also have to play ranked draft, because unranked is almost always a shitshow.

Quick match has its place, and I would be OK with waiting more if there was a checkpoint of "balanced drafts only". Right now, odds are the next 5 games you go into are decided on loading screen.

Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric

"With the release of the Call of the Nexus, we have seen a significant increase in match quality (in terms of meta composition)"

Bull-fucking-shit.

Originally Posted by Acidbaron

The game quality increased so much that i prefer to play AI games and i am looking into Smite or Dota to replace HoTS.

Maybe their metrics show things differently, but right now it's increased queue times for the same quality of games. You still get absurd combinations since the playerbase isn't what it used to be so you essentially you have to wait 5 to 6 minutes for a game and 1 out of 4 if you're lucky might be enjoyable to play (win or lose)

I like how people read "a significant increase in match quality (in terms of meta composition)" and think of "a significant increase in winrate or smth lol".

match quality definitely went up significantly, you never (unless you pushed you luck by sitting 10 minutes in queue, just cancel queue and requeue a minute later) had a match full of warcraft assassins. But sitting in a queue for 5 minutes to get into 15-20 minute game is just unacceptable, it reminded me of 2015 or 16 when i played league and had to sit for ~20 minutes to get into a game in diamond just to surrender in 20 minutes because Jax kept pushing his luck on top and died 6 times.
Even then, when MM gave you a good match, you had a tank, a healer a bunch of filler characters, balanced for each side - skill difference was very noticeable, at one point we had Arthas on 50-something level account to fill our tank spot who failed to notice fucking turrets attacking him (to be fair he kept saying sorry in chat and repeating that he is new to the game... but how did he get into a match where 9 other players are 600+?).
So yeah, match quality is not everything to make good experience in QM, good that they realize it now and we are back to square one

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Originally Posted by Aladya

Draft is played by being flexible, specially at higher ranks.

There is unranked draft where you can goof around like you do in QM.

Originally Posted by Aladya

You cannot go in a game thinking I'm drafting X hero(Whitemane for example), as your lineup might need a tank or a brusier, or the hero might be banned etc.

Sure you can, you also can (sic!) communicate in lobby and say things like "guiz imma pick white mane plz ok?". Just don't expect things and don't act like a child when others act like kids and things don't go your way. But usually you go into a game with, you know, some intent to win, isn't it? Not picking a tank when tank is needed is kinda counter-intuitive for this goal. Having a good "pool" of heroes you would want to play helps, so instead of being upset by Whitemane not being available you can get some sweet Cho'Gal or TLV action instead.

Originally Posted by Aladya

You also have to play ranked draft,

No, you don't

Originally Posted by Aladya

because unranked is almost always a shitshow.

That's the point of unranked games. If you get into a game with mindset like "i'm going to play Whitemane!" you are kinda enabling this shitshow.

Originally Posted by Aladya

Quick match has its place, and I would be OK with waiting more if there was a checkpoint of "balanced drafts only". Right now, odds are the next 5 games you go into are decided on loading screen.

Point of quick match is it being quick and inaccurate. If you want "balanced drafts only" you go for a... you know... actual draft. QM is supposed to be played when you want to get into games quickly, but you do that at expense of match quality, to a degree of a game being decided on a loading screen (which happens extremely rarely i must add, that's just how human memory works and you think that it happens way more often than it really does).
Blizzard would know that it's a shitty idea to enforce meta into QM (i understand that they want it, since they balance their game around this holy-trinity-meta, instead of allowing players to figure meta out like it happens in literally all dota-likes) if they would look at other dota-likes, league had this problem in ranked matches with primary/secondary role "prepicks", when ticking a support role in any box would guarantee you that you are getting support role. But they've got their shit together. And i must add that it was ranked matches, not fucking QM that people play to get familiar with characters or get their hour-long-gaming-fix.

Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor

I like how people read "a significant increase in match quality (in terms of meta composition)" and think of "a significant increase in winrate or smth lol".

match quality definitely went up significantly, you never (unless you pushed you luck by sitting 10 minutes in queue, just cancel queue and requeue a minute later) had a match full of warcraft assassins. But sitting in a queue for 5 minutes to get into 15-20 minute game is just unacceptable, it reminded me of 2015 or 16 when i played league and had to sit for ~20 minutes to get into a game in diamond just to surrender in 20 minutes because Jax kept pushing his luck on top and died 6 times.
Even then, when MM gave you a good match, you had a tank, a healer a bunch of filler characters, balanced for each side - skill difference was very noticeable, at one point we had Arthas on 50-something level account to fill our tank spot who failed to notice fucking turrets attacking him (to be fair he kept saying sorry in chat and repeating that he is new to the game... but how did he get into a match where 9 other players are 600+?).
So yeah, match quality is not everything to make good experience in QM, good that they realize it now and we are back to square one

I don't even know what parameter they would be able to use to actually rate players? Win rate in QP this late in seems inaccurate? Player levels? That doesn't really say all that much either, considering the best method to level is to do AI in a pre-made.

All in all feels like a lost cause.

Just add a Switch.. fast qm / better matchups. Problem solved

Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity

Just can't make people happy. Either every quick play team isn't a perfect meta composition or the queue times are too long.

(Just. Fucking. Play. Draft. People.)

I don't understand the hate for unranked draft. I get a lot of "why play unranked draft if we can play ranked instead?" from my friends (yeah thank you guys for dragging me back into plat league, good times, good times). But if you queue for a QM because you just want to play X character you should expect 9 other players who just want to play Y and Z character, it almost never results in a good match, you get badly matched team A vs badly matched team B, and those who can pull the most from their badness wins. You aren't queuing with friends who are ready to fill 4 spots for you to play Probius in ranked (i do, because i'm awesome like that), you are queuing for a QM with strangers who expect that team they'll get will be built around their pick (it won't, it's a delusion, get rid of it, imagine a loading screen with Murky, TLV, Abathur and Chen on your side regardless of your pick - if you still would want to try yourself out in this game - go for it, if you don't - write down a list of your favorite heroes, filter them out by roles, and go into draft, make best of your time)

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Originally Posted by Acidbaron

I don't even know what parameter they would be able to use to actually rate players? Win rate in QP this late in seems inaccurate? Player levels? That doesn't really say all that much either, considering the best method to level is to do AI in a pre-made.

All in all feels like a lost cause.

APM, damage dealt, damage dealt in fights, kills, deaths, fort takedowns, merc camps, merc camps that result in fort takedowns, objectives secured, that-time-when-you-was-sitting-two-levels-behind-the-enemy-team-decided-to-not-go-and-contest-0/3-favor-for-raven-lord-instead-you-took-a-merc-camp-and-pushed-down-fort-and-a-keep-while-your-team-was-dying-senselessly-in-a-4v5-fight. I don't know, there are plenty of parameters to track in games like this and modern tech definitely allows them to track this shit down and analyse

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Originally Posted by T3ramos

Just add a Switch.. fast qm / better matchups. Problem solved

if you'll split QM queues into two queues you'll get two longer queues. It's not like you are waiting in a supermarket queue, it's more like sitting in your garage with a sign "need a drummer, singer, lead guitar and keyboard" outside.


And as a disclaimer - i'm not trying to smear shit all over QM and its players, this season i mostly play QM because i got sick of meta and want to play games with Zarya, Rexxar, Alarak (rip) in either side, instead of seeing Muradin, Varian, Lili, Nazeebo in almost every. fucking. game.

Originally Posted by Acidbaron

The game quality increased so much that i prefer to play AI games and i am looking into Smite or Dota to replace HoTS.

I like the moba setup but I heavily dislike the item system. HoTs disposed of it and thats part of the reason I liked it, but I cant really get into the other ones because of it.

Originally Posted by Tenjen

I like the moba setup but I heavily dislike the item system. HoTs disposed of it and thats part of the reason I liked it, but I cant really get into the other ones because of it.

I tried LoL recently and I actually liked it. I was in the same camp as you, except all I had played was original DOTA and a little DOTA 2. LoL is the exact middle ground between DOTA and HotS, if I had to describe it, HotS being on the end of the spectrum of no items and a bit shallow, while DOTA is on the opposite end, being very deep with transmutations, items, etc.

I have the most hours in Bloodline Champs/Battlerite though, which is like on the very far end of the spectrum. No items, no lanes, no drafting, no resources, just abilities and cooldowns.

Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor

I don't understand the hate for unranked draft. I get a lot of "why play unranked draft if we can play ranked instead?" from my friends (yeah thank you guys for dragging me back into plat league, good times, good times)

The problem with unranked draft is that it will pick players from all leagues and try to average MMR. Now, players from Silver/Gold should probably never be matched with Diamond/ Masters but it happens because of the system. To make it worse, since its unranked people don't give a fuck about setups. There are even people going to Unranked to play assassin/specialist because it will count for their quest to play support for example.

Last time I tried unranked draft, my team first picked Rexxar and Murky and at that point I left the game. The good part of the QM change was that it gave a more ranked feeling to games, while not being ranked. It meant that you could practice heroes in an actual competitive environment, not one where its 5vs5 Assassins with a Jaina complaining that Valeera is overpowered.

Originally Posted by msdos

I tried LoL recently and I actually liked it. I was in the same camp as you, except all I had played was original DOTA and a little DOTA 2. LoL is the exact middle ground between DOTA and HotS, if I had to describe it, HotS being on the end of the spectrum of no items and a bit shallow, while DOTA is on the opposite end, being very deep with transmutations, items, etc.

I have the most hours in Bloodline Champs/Battlerite though, which is like on the very far end of the spectrum. No items, no lanes, no drafting, no resources, just abilities and cooldowns.

have you dabbled in smite? was wondering what the infrastructure is like for that game

I'm sure I've read this spiel a few times before. tldr: We've been playing with the matchmaking variables again, like it or lump it.

Before this it was like up to 15 min queue as dps for me, but after this update, it's back to same old random combos, but hey shorter queues. I mean 5 dps vs 5 dps is pretty boring, but then again 15 min queue as dps. I think I'm not even sure which one is better. I play kinda randomly, so I don't really care that much.

Originally Posted by Acidbaron

I don't even know what parameter they would be able to use to actually rate players? Win rate in QP this late in seems inaccurate? Player levels? That doesn't really say all that much either, considering the best method to level is to do AI in a pre-made.

All in all feels like a lost cause.

I am not sure either. But when I look at post battle result on hotslogs. The average MMR is quite similar even if we have a newbie player. Rarely is the difference above 200 MMR. Of cause it happens but I would take an educated guess and say:
10% is within 50 MMR
25% is between 50-100 MMR
50% is between 100-200 MMR
15% is above 200 MMR

If you desire to prove me wrong feel free to follow my link in signature. I am too lazy to do it myself.

Sometimes I get this matchmaking, you gotta feel sorry for the newbie but oddly enough its fair MMR:
My Team: (2076 MMR)
Me: 2115
Guy 2: 2169
Guy 3: 2660
Guy 4: 1842
Guy 5: 1593

Their Team: (2019 MMR)
Guy 1: 1762
Guy 2: 1939
Guy 3: 2063
Guy 4: 2139
Guy 5: 2191

Originally Posted by Saphyron

I am not sure either. But when I look at post battle result on hotslogs. The average MMR is quite similar even if we have a newbie player. Rarely is the difference above 200 MMR. Of cause it happens but I would take an educated guess and say:
10% is within 50 MMR
25% is between 50-100 MMR
50% is between 100-200 MMR
15% is above 200 MMR

If you desire to prove me wrong feel free to follow my link in signature. I am too lazy to do it myself.

Sometimes I get this matchmaking, you gotta feel sorry for the newbie but oddly enough its fair MMR:
My Team: (2076 MMR)
Me: 2115
Guy 2: 2169
Guy 3: 2660
Guy 4: 1842
Guy 5: 1593

Their Team: (2019 MMR)
Guy 1: 1762
Guy 2: 1939
Guy 3: 2063
Guy 4: 2139
Guy 5: 2191

MMR used in hotslogs is not "MMR" used by hots matchmaking. There is literally no way for us to figure out what info blizzards backend uses for matchmaking

Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor

MMR used in hotslogs is not "MMR" used by hots matchmaking. There is literally no way for us to figure out what info blizzards backend uses for matchmaking

I know that but clearly its close. If the MMR was drastically different then why are we seeing matches were average MMR on both teams are similar?

Another thing. The top player per match that hotslog have designated are reflected ingame.
The player 8/10 times that has the highest "score" usually also is MVP ingame.