PvP Hotfixes Live - Feb. 13, February 21st Raid Testing

CMs do a lot more than just reply to forum posts. They're the ones that relay info from devs, create the patch notes, plan and coordinate community events (including most of Blizzcon), that make sure fansites get interviews, arrange press events, etc. They're fulfilling exactly the kind of roles that anyone who is reading a fansite should care about because they are entirely the reason we have any information at all about what's going on in the game and what will be going on in the future. Devs, engineers, art team, etc are all really important for creating games but fostering the community surrounding those games -- especially on multiplayer games like Overwatch, Heroes, WoW, etc -- is still really critical.

WoW in particular lost almost its entire CM team between Warlords and the layoffs this week, and I think the effect of that was pretty apparent. Losing more CMs and from across all their games is probably going to have a noticeable impact to anyone whose relationship with the game extends past the game client itself and onto third party sites, apps, and forums.

Originally Posted by Kul Tiras

Nobody gives a fuck about your "tweets". How can a grown man be taken seriously when he's talking about how he's "trending" on "twitter". Fuck all CMs, corrupt useless son of bitches paid to do nothing. Go post in the I like pie thread whilst 50 actually usefull threads requires acknowledgment and feedback.

Go get a real job you fucking parasite.

Speaking the truth and paying the price. Sorry brother.

Originally Posted by Tziva

CMs do a lot more than just reply to forum posts. They're the ones that relay info from devs, create the patch notes, plan and coordinate community events (including most of Blizzcon), that make sure fansites get interviews, arrange press events, etc. They're fulfilling exactly the kind of roles that anyone who is reading a fansite should care about because they are entirely the reason we have any information at all about what's going on in the game and what will be going on in the future. Devs, engineers, art team, etc are all really important for creating games but fostering the community surrounding those games -- especially on multiplayer games like Overwatch, Heroes, WoW, etc -- is still really critical.

WoW in particular lost almost its entire CM team between Warlords and the layoffs this week, and I think the effect of that was pretty apparent. Losing more CMs and from across all their games is probably going to have a noticeable impact to anyone whose relationship with the game extends past the game client itself and onto third party sites, apps, and forums.

It does beg the question what they're thinking here, when their investor call is all about doing things for players, and then they pretty much destroy an important aspect of that relationship. That's why I can't just go "rah rah, everything is awesome now", because they have to DO what they were talking about doing on the call - make better games.

And, as usual, it's radio silence from the actual Blizzard people who still have a job. People like Ion and Kaplan need to be out in front of this assuring people that everything is going to improve because of these cuts. One PR release statement from Brack ain't gonna cut it. They kicked the anthill over for ALL of their communities here, and set the remains on fire doing squat to reach out and calm people down - which as usual will lead to more unbridled accusations, rumors, and conspiracy theories.

It's a bit eyebrow raising that several people, like Bellular, have said their usual contacts within the company, people who's job it was to manage that kind of contact, are gone. The only thing I can think is they're going bunker mode - which has worked so well for them, in the past.

Originally Posted by Projectmars

You're at the point where you are wishing that people die horribly over this. WoW is just a game and Blizzard is just a company, not your life. (and if you do consider it to be your entire life, then yes, Please seek help as that level of obsession is not healthy) What they did is pretty shitty, yes, (especially due to the timing) but not something to wish the deaths of people over.

Yeah. Well that's just like, your opinion. man. If you're too inept to understand why someone would be upset, then how do you expect anyone to be able to explain it in such a way that you would be able to comprehend?

Originally Posted by crakerjack

Where's the 20% damage increase to Enhancement shamans?

And BM and SV hunters.

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Originally Posted by Amerissis

You need therapy, stat! How can you seriously wish for people to die for firing someone? You're not well, seek help, please.

Sad that MMO Champ is leaving hatespeech like his comment up.

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Originally Posted by Weber

they (Blizzard) just used the Chance to get rid of useless People, look at all the twitter dramaz, not a single Person with a Background in Engineering or Software Development was fired, no Art- People either. Only People whos Job was "e-sport-community-building" or some other pr-bullshit-millenial twitter-jobs. actualy blizz is hiring Coders now. so this whole thing could be for the better. Boby Kotick you absolute madman, well played.

for reference:

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph...ssacre.126153/

Yeah seems good. Funny too that most of the same people whining about how "communication was bad" are now mad that the people responsible for the bad communication got fired.

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Originally Posted by Kul Tiras

Nobody gives a fuck about your "tweets". How can a grown man be taken seriously when he's talking about how he's "trending" on "twitter". Fuck all CMs, corrupt useless son of bitches paid to do nothing. Go post in the I like pie thread whilst 50 actually usefull threads requires acknowledgment and feedback.

Go get a real job you fucking parasite.

Banned for this, but the guy issuing literal death threats is still up.

Maybe someone should report the death threats to the police.

Originally Posted by Amerissis

You do not see there is a very, very large gap between wishing death on people for firing someone and agreeing to it? I don’t know whether it was justified and neither do you, but I do know that it’s psychotic to wish death upon someone over this. If you really feel like this, and aren’t just being an edgy teen, you really need help. And I am serious.

Oh yea, totally justifiable to can everyone on the bottom rung so that the CEOs can afford more gold plated Yachts, right?

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/st...728048640?s=21

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/co...their_parking/

You can't live without a heart. If you're a heartless person, exactly how are you alive? It's psychotic that you casually agree that the lives of hundreds of people is worth less than the lives of one or two people. Lemme guess, were the detainment camps and removal of all the children from families justified or is it fair to be upset (even to the point of wanting to retaliate) against Trump and ilk for causing such harm upon the thousands of families involved? Or is that just "justified" to you as well, and it's "psychotic" to wish harm upon those who actively ripped children from their mothers?

If you have record profits, why do you need to then turn around and fire people? Are you that obtuse that you don't see what's happening yet again in modern America? Richer needs to get rich, so let's fuck over the poor. It doesn't matter if they need insurance or money, or if they did a damn good job. We need to get rid of them to appease the people at the top and give them even more money.

Your way of thought is reaching its extinction event real damn close. And I am serious.

Originally Posted by Wallmaker Yahzarah

Hilarious. He was laid off. What exactly did he do for the company? What was his job again?

Professional forum poster.


Largely responsible for the supposedly terrible communication from Blizzard.

Originally Posted by Nevcairiel

If you are a publically traded company, there is only so many things you can refuse without being eventually just replaced, especially if its about saving money - in fact you have a responsibility to the share holders to make them as much money as you can. The CEO only runs the company as long as the share holders are happy.

Fair point.

Don't get me wrong I understand that, but at a certain point trying to make the excuse that "you're just doing your job" doesn't cut it. You know who is able to take cuts without being affected? The top people making millions, hand over fist, without putting in the effort that all the developers, CMs and people that actually interact with the customers do every single day.

There is nobody that can justifiably be considered that much (Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc). Just recently we had Insulin shoot up 600% in price without any regard to the lives of millions affected, all because some CEO wanted to make more money. Sure he eventually got arrested on other charges, but how is that legal to begin with? At what point does manipulating and extorting the majority go from "its just business" to "that should not be tolerated"?

All of the replies here shitting on Ythisens are hilariously bad. You people are the reason Tseric flipped out, with your baseless hate, ignorant claims of uselessness, and absolutely idiotic attitudes. You have no idea what kind of work they do beyond the blue posts. It's stupid to assume their entire job was to post blue text. There are almost a dozen NA CMs yet people think Ythisens was the only one because they can't wrap their tiny minds around more than blue text. The worse ones are the rabid keyboard warriors blaming CMs for lack of blue text in threads their opinions have placed importance on, like the one idiot in this very thread and the other idiot that actually posted a death threat. Community engagement is more than the precious blue text in which you want to see your main's buffs, you greedy fucks.

They aren't developers and they can't read the minds of the Blizzard employees responsible for the game, so they can only post what is given to them. Empty blue posts are worse than no posts at all. Does anyone actually understand how oversaturated a blue feed would be with a ton of "we'll look into this" or "we have nothing to say" replies clogging it up? Actual blue posts would be buried. But noooo, let's act like children and bitch and whine that we aren't being heard. We've have dozens of confirmations over the years that Blizzard is listening, even if you don't like the results or the communication.

You people, you know who you are, disgust me.

Originally Posted by bullseyed

Professional forum poster.


Largely responsible for the supposedly terrible communication from Blizzard.

How is he responsible? He isn't the one deciding what information is given out to players, so it's not his fault the communication is bad.

You really think he was sitting on information he wasn't sharing beause he is that bad at his (former) job?
When there is information to be shared, it is shared. The problem is that very little is shared, so there's nothing to report on - and that is the problem.
Not even the best communicator in the world would be able to change that.

Originally Posted by Tziva

WoW in particular lost almost its entire CM team between Warlords and the layoffs this week,

Where in the world are you getting that information from?

And if the list of things they do is accurate, getting rid of all of them means none of that stuff could happen anymore - but I'm pretty sure Blizzcon will still be going on, for example.

Originally Posted by relaxok

Where in the world are you getting that information from?

And if the list of things they do is accurate, getting rid of all of them means none of that stuff could happen anymore - but I'm pretty sure Blizzcon will still be going on, for example.

Blizzcon will still go on, but we've already seen the cutbacks, with the lack of a headlining band. I think those days are over, and 2019's will be scaled back, in some areas.

Listen to the shareholder's call. It sounds like they're redoing their entire marketing program, and that could impact the CM team, with new people taking their place as gatekeepers between the company and the general public, journalists, and events. CMs did a lot of work in those areas.

Keep in mind, the layoffs aren't the only changes happening. It's a restructuring, so job duties are being changed, departments being deployed in different directions, etc.

They have a long ways to go to prove to the public, investors, and the media that these changes will work out better, long term. And I'm skeptical. Restructures can take years to settle down from the changes...or ever.

Originally Posted by Mrbleedinggums

If you have record profits, why do you need to then turn around and fire people? Are you that obtuse that you don't see what's happening yet again in modern America? Richer needs to get rich, so let's fuck over the poor. It doesn't matter if they need insurance or money, or if they did a damn good job. We need to get rid of them to appease the people at the top and give them even more money.

Originally Posted by chaud

Message from J. Allen Brack

Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)

"To assist with the transition, we are offering each impacted employee a severance package that includes additional pay, benefits continuation, and career and recruiting support to help them find their next opportunity. These people are members of the Blizzard family—they’ve cared deeply and contributed greatly to our work here and we are extremely grateful for all they’ve done."

While it sucks, layoffs in a publicly traded company happen. Blizz was actually pretty generous, compared to many companies, in that they didn't just fire the people, they gave them severance pay, will continue to provide them with insurance and other benefits, and are actively helping them find new jobs. Though, based on your posts, I'm sure you don't believe any of that.

Originally Posted by relaxok

Where in the world are you getting that information from?

And if the list of things they do is accurate, getting rid of all of them means none of that stuff could happen anymore - but I'm pretty sure Blizzcon will still be going on, for example.

That information has been publicly available and news'd as each person left (either to other games, other departments, or other companies). Over the last few years, the WoW CM team alone has lost Zarhym, Bashiok, Crithto, Daxxarri, Rygarius, and Ythisens. Right now, Bornakk and Lore are the only confirmed remaining (although Nethaera might still be there; we just haven't heard from her in awhile). One can argue that WoW with its current playerbase doesn't need a CM department of ten plus people, but effect of each of them leaving has been noticeable in both subtle and overt ways, and I can't imagine any of those functions will be improved by having less people covering all those tasks.

That list of things I shared is accurate as far as the things CMs were in charge of, but that doesn't mean none of them will happen now. Some of it might cease to happen, some of it might be shifted to other people or the PR department, and the rest might be carried by the remaining few CMs. I agree it is unlikely that Blizzcon is going to be cancelled, for example, but that doesn't diminish the amount of coordination for it that was done by those in the community departments.

My point was simply that people who read or use fansites and other third party news pages or apps should care about losing CMs for their games since those CMs are responsible for a lot of things that impact those sites and their user experience in general, and that saying all they were responsible for is forum posts is flat-out inaccurate. Sure, if your only relationship with a given game exists while you're actually playing it then probably you wouldn't care, but that obviously doesn't apply to anyone who is reading news on MMO-C.

Look at #3, pretty obvious dig at activision and their predatory practices and greedy ways have finally infected blizzard.

Originally Posted by Mrbleedinggums

Wait Ythisens got fired? Oh fuck that, I hope every last Blizzard CEO that was responsible dies a horrible painful death. I'll take my infraction, i dont care. They deserve deaths that would make Ted Bundy blush in embarrassment. They need to go bankrupt and realize that cutting back on the people that actually give a damn about the players means you no longer care about the players. Why support anyone that hates their customers?

You are a idiot and by reading this post we all have become dumber... Thanks for contributing nothing and may you catch fire and hopefully no one will piss on you to put it out... See how dumb i sound now go back a reread what you wrote.... Ill wait at least until i get a silence...

looks like I wont be PvPing then

TFW you boycott the game because you want things to change but hard-working employees get sacked instead. Well played, Activision.

I do not like Ythisens and have no respect for him. He is very unprofessional and comes across like someone's kid getting on their mom's account for the day than as a community manager and representative of Blizzard to the online public.
Even aside from my dislike for that person, I still feel like this 'shake up' is a good thing and that good things will come from it; so overall I am very happy about it. I shared this sentiment in a post on the WoW forum also and, no surprise to me, I received a week's suspension.

Originally Posted by Tziva

CMs do a lot more than just reply to forum posts. They're the ones that relay info from devs, create the patch notes, plan and coordinate community events (including most of Blizzcon), that make sure fansites get interviews, arrange press events, etc. They're fulfilling exactly the kind of roles that anyone who is reading a fansite should care about because they are entirely the reason we have any information at all about what's going on in the game and what will be going on in the future. Devs, engineers, art team, etc are all really important for creating games but fostering the community surrounding those games -- especially on multiplayer games like Overwatch, Heroes, WoW, etc -- is still really critical.

I'm really going to go out on a limb and say NO BLIZZCON this year. Might end up being an every 2nd year event now.