Patch 8.1.5 - Proudmoore Cinematic
The War Campaign continues in Patch 8.1.5, with a Proudmoore family reunion. Spoilers in the video!

This article was originally published in forum thread: Patch 8.1.5 - Derek and Jaina Reunited Cinematic started by chaud View original post
Comments 146 Comments
  1. Fleugen's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lac View Post
    FYI, Sylvanas sent the Tauren to Silithus to assist the Earthern Ring before she set out for Teldrassil. She purposely sent them away because she knew Baine would not go along with her plans. That's why there are no Tauren there and why Baine couldn't have stopped it.
    He didn't have to be there to stop it.

    The fact of the matter is, he didn't even speak up against it. You can't tell me with a straight face that he never heard Teldrassil happened, and when he did, why did he and the Tauren keep following?

    Where was his "My heart weeps" then? Even if he couldn't stop it, he could have done SOMETHING, especially given the history between Tauren and Night Elf - You'd think we'd see Baine more close in relationship to them than Humans. Why specifically for Derek? Why is this the "too far" mark?
  1. Arafal's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    It's like everyone forgets the whole of the Alliance Side of Stormheim's Story is attacking the Horde and trying to hunt and kill Sylvanas before we knew she was planning evil stuff with Helya because Genn believes they betrayed them by sounding a retreat at the Broken Shore and getting Anduin to agree with this plan. Not forgetting Genn hates her anyway cause of everything.
    im not forgetting anything.
    im usually the one to point this exact thing out when people piss on sylvanas in the stormheim story.

    however sylvanas never uses it as a reason for her warfare and no one else does either.
    that story point literally just happened and has been forgotten right after, never to return again.

    Please tell me how Sylvanas declared War.
    by marching into night elven, meaning alliance, lands and wreaking havoc to the point of attempting genocide.
    how exactly is that NOT a war declaration?
  1. Hyral's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    Also how Jaina gonna get it's undead brother accepted among the alliance that has always been 100% against undead? Would she get into a fight with Gen over her brother?
    As per Before the Storm the Alliance isn't 100% against undead, only against those who want to end all life. So against sylvanas and her scourge. And in that same book Genn also admits sylvanas is not the entire forsaken and they are people just like any other and he was too judgmental. There shouldn't be any major problems really. Family is family. And while Jaina didn't understand that as a child she definitely does now.
  1. Ulgaan's Avatar
    So uh, I don't know if anyone else is thinking this, but can we get Forsaken that look more like Nathanos and Derek? I feel like should be an option. I like it.

    I also love how much the cutscenes have evolved since the beginning... I wish they'd go back and make some for older content even though they never will- waste of resources and whatnot.
  1. Pacster's Avatar
    Yay, Horde got its own Anduin...just with a cow face. So cuddly, pure and nice. We really needed that. /sarcasm

    I think players shall like him now(cause they didn't care for Baine at all so far)...so it at least gonna have some impact on players when he gets killed.
  1. Lac's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    He didn't have to be there to stop it.

    The fact of the matter is, he didn't even speak up against it. You can't tell me with a straight face that he never heard Teldrassil happened, and when he did, why did he and the Tauren keep following?

    Where was his "My heart weeps" then? Even if he couldn't stop it, he could have done SOMETHING, especially given the history between Tauren and Night Elf - You'd think we'd see Baine more close in relationship to them than Humans. Why specifically for Derek? Why is this the "too far" mark?
    By the time the burning of Teldrassil happens, Baine is already on very thin ice with Sylvanas. Unlike his father, Baine doesn't have strong ties with any of the Horde leadership and is more isolationist than the Tauren have been in the past. The Tauren have always been more moderate than the rest of the horde, preferring peace and harmony over conflict but they have waged war with the Horde out of loyalty and because they believed the horde to be honourable. When the horde lost its honor under Garrosh, his father stood up against the warchief and paid for it with his life. Before Darkshore, Baine stood up to Sylvanas after the massacre at Arathi highlands and she threatened his life and the lives of his people. He knows that she will follow through with her threats as she is without honour.

    The Derek Proudmore situation is the straw that breaks the camel's back. He was pissed at what happened at Darkshore (burning) and Undercity (blight) but had to protect himself and his people. He had no control over those events as he didn't have prior knowledge but with Derek, he knows what Sylvanas is planning and that it is immoral. He can do something about it and standing by would be wrong, in his eyes.

    Personally, I like that the horde are having to question what it means to be 'The Horde' and that characters like Baine and Saurfang have concluded that in order to protect what they believe 'The Horde' means, they have to betray the Warchief. It makes the faction more interesting and less black and white, clear cut.
  1. s0ul's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lac View Post
    By the time the burning of Teldrassil happens, Baine is already on very thin ice with Sylvanas. Unlike his father, Baine doesn't have strong ties with any of the Horde leadership and is more isolationist than the Tauren have been in the past. The Tauren have always been more moderate than the rest of the horde, preferring peace and harmony over conflict but they have waged war with the Horde out of loyalty and because they believed the horde to be honourable. When the horde lost its honor under Garrosh, his father stood up against the warchief and paid for it with his life. Before Darkshore, Baine stood up to Sylvanas after the massacre at Arathi highlands and she threatened his life and the lives of his people. He knows that she will follow through with her threats as she is without honour.

    The Derek Proudmore situation is the straw that breaks the camel's back. He was pissed at what happened at Darkshore (burning) and Undercity (blight) but had to protect himself and his people. He had no control over those events as he didn't have prior knowledge but with Derek, he knows what Sylvanas is planning and that it is immoral. He can do something about it and standing by would be wrong, in his eyes.

    Personally, I like that the horde are having to question what it means to be 'The Horde' and that characters like Baine and Saurfang have concluded that in order to protect what they believe 'The Horde' means, they have to betray the Warchief. It makes the faction more interesting and less black and white, clear cut.
    Actually, it's just bad writing and Blizzard using the Horde leadership to build up boring Alliance characters using "muh honour" quotes. It's as if Baine forgot that Jaina invaded Zuldazar moments before his meetup, killed his comrades defending Zuldazar, and then murdered the Zandalari king. It would be okay if he was just forgetful, but he wants to make peace by bringing Derek to Jaina... Because he's worried about Jaina's fweeling? Why doesn't he just take Derek to his allies? It's almost as if he doesn't believe in the Horde anymore. Saurfang and Baine are nothing but Alliance puppets right now, and it's sad because Saurfang was a fantastic character before his shitty forced honour speeches in BFA. What does honour even mean at this point?

    And before you tell me about the "old Horde before Sylvanas," please remember that honour meant different things to different people over the course of the Horde history. Garrosh Hellscream put strength on a higher pedestal. He wanted glory for the Orcs, which also happens to mean honour. Other races of the Horde don't value "honour" like Thrall either. Certainly not the Blood Elves nor the Nightborne, nor the Goblins, and definitely not the Forsaken.


    As for why the Taurens joined the Horde. The reason goes back to Warcraft III. Cairne Bloodhoof and his Taurens were nearly driven to extinction by the centaurs. The Orcs save them from the centaurs. The savagery and nobility displayed by the Orcs actually intrigued Cairne. Then his son, Baine, gets captured by the centaurs. The Night Elves watch and laugh while Cairne sits at home depressed. Rexxar and Rokhan come asking for help against Admiral Proudmoore (Jaina's daddy), but Cairne tells them to fuck off. Rexxar and Rokhan then rescue Baine and return him to Cairne. To show his gratitude, Cairne swears a blood oath to serve the Horde for saving his people. That's basically it. Oh and together with the Orcs, he kills Jaina's father and drives back the Kul'Tiran invasion .

    Taurens value peace and tranquility, but honor has always meant loyalty to the Taurens. Let me remind you, it was the Baine who convinced Thrall to let Sylvanas and her Forsaken into the Horde. All of these races are in an alliance of convenience.

    If Baine actually cared about the Horde, he would have went to Lor'themar or Thalyssra or Mayla Highmountainor or Talanji. Instead he ran to the very person who slaughtered his comrades and civilians of the Horde just moments before the meeting.

    The Horde is a group of outcasts that banded together to survive.

    The Horde has always been a combination of values and goals. Honour itself has several meanings; glory, respect, nobility, esteem and even prestige. Sylvanas' Horde isn't hated by every single member of the Horde. In fact, Overlord Geya'rah of the Mag'har Orcs actually admires Sylvanas.
  1. Lac's Avatar
    It's not bad writing just because it doesn't conform to how people think these characters should behave. His actions make sense to me so the writing is good for some people. Just because the Alliance attacked Zandalar, it doesn't make what Sylvanas was doing right in Baine's view. He is not protecting Jaina's 'feelings'. He protecting the honour of the horde by not allowing Sylvanas to follow through with her plan. Giving Derek to other horde leaders makes no sense since they are not standing against Sylvanas.
  1. Reyuna's Avatar
    Team Sylvanas all the way. I wanted to shove a Glacial Spike down Baines useless throat :/
  1. kaid's Avatar
    I would note that the horde attempted an invasion of boralus prior to the alliance striking at zuldazar so that any of the zandalari would feel shocked that the alliance decided to strike at them in return seems silly. The alliance offered king rastakhan the chance to surrender and he refused.
  1. Verdugo's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunchie View Post
    People probably don't even get the idea that all reborn forsaken or undead are under the control of sylvanus seeimg as she can respectively be seen as a lich queen.
    My character is not, therefore you are lying.
  1. TheRevenantHero's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    Uhm, zul burnt stormwind? Alliance and Horde are at war?
    Zul set a few buildings on fire but probably didn't kill anyone. He did it in a way to give Jaina a choice. Either chase him or save Stormwind. He also wasn't doing it in the name of Zandalari. He did it to escape. As for the Alliance and Horde being at war, why does everyone lose their fucking minds over Teldrassil then? They're at war and the tree was a military target.
  1. Grimalkin of Old's Avatar
    Voice actors still having breathing problems, I can hear
  1. bowlink's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Zul set a few buildings on fire but probably didn't kill anyone. He did it in a way to give Jaina a choice. Either chase him or save Stormwind. He also wasn't doing it in the name of Zandalari. He did it to escape. As for the Alliance and Horde being at war, why does everyone lose their fucking minds over Teldrassil then? They're at war and the tree was a military target.
    I think hes refering to the war campaign just prior of the raid where the horde plus some zandari attack tirasgarde sound. Even has an achievement kul tirans don't look at explosions
  1. Nite92's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Zul set a few buildings on fire but probably didn't kill anyone. He did it in a way to give Jaina a choice. Either chase him or save Stormwind. He also wasn't doing it in the name of Zandalari. He did it to escape. As for the Alliance and Horde being at war, why does everyone lose their fucking minds over Teldrassil then? They're at war and the tree was a military target.
    Attacking a City and Killing the King = war. Burning a City after a Victory and Killing civillians that way = war crime. (IMO). Jaina wouldnt have let him escape If the fire wasnt severe enough.
  1. TheRevenantHero's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nite92 View Post
    Attacking a City and Killing the King = war. Burning a City after a Victory and Killing civillians that way = war crime. (IMO). Jaina wouldnt have let him escape If the fire wasnt severe enough.
    The Alliance attacked Dazar'alor, killing everything ijn their path to the king. Likely mowed down plenty of civilians along the way because there was no warning before the attack. Sylvanas burned Teldrassil after messing around on Darkshore, allowing the Nelves plenty of time to evacuate civilians. Yeah some civilians were killed but it wasn't an act of genocide so therefore not a war crime. What the Alliance did was much more of a war crime than what Sylvanas did.
  1. bowlink's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    The Alliance attacked Dazar'alor, killing everything ijn their path to the king. Likely mowed down plenty of civilians along the way because there was no warning before the attack. Sylvanas burned Teldrassil after messing around on Darkshore, allowing the Nelves plenty of time to evacuate civilians. Yeah some civilians were killed but it wasn't an act of genocide so therefore not a war crime. What the Alliance did was much more of a war crime than what Sylvanas did.
    In the alliance version you are told to only engage soldiers. And keep civilian casualties to a minimum. So sayping the alliance went on a killing spree is bull fecal matter. Also rastakhan was given the option to surrender, we have standards. I can't say the same about some horde members.
  1. TheRevenantHero's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bowlink View Post
    In the alliance version you are told to only engage soldiers. And keep civilian casualties to a minimum. So sayping the alliance went on a killing spree is bull fecal matter. Also rastakhan was given the option to surrender, we have standards. I can't say the same about some horde members.
    Jaina was also ordered not to kill the king. So it's pretty clear orders were NOT followed by the actual invading force. You really think Jaina and the host of Kul Tiran soldiers wouldn't go on a rampage and murder anyone that came into view as an act of revenge for what the Horde did at Theramore and Stormsong Valley? lmao
  1. bowlink's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Jaina was also ordered not to kill the king. So it's pretty clear orders were NOT followed by the actual invading force. You really think Jaina and the host of Kul Tiran soldiers wouldn't go on a rampage and murder anyone that came into view as an act of revenge for what the Horde did at Theramore and Stormsong Valley? lmao
    Jaina isn't even at the rastakhan fight she spends her time delaying the horde so the alliance can even get to him. as for the soldiers i won't say that their aren't some straglers that did but would have been away from the main force and would have likely died because of it. because mutch to my surgrin the alliance does has standards
  1. TheRevenantHero's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by bowlink View Post
    Jaina isn't even at the rastakhan fight she spends her time delaying the horde so the alliance can even get to him. as for the soldiers i won't say that their aren't some straglers that did but would have been away from the main force and would have likely died because of it. because mutch to my surgrin the alliance does has standards
    LOL this cinematic says otherwise about Jaina being there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GttZVAtE740

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