Alterac Valley in Classic
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
This is a subject that has been asked about several times recently, and we want to clarify some of the details surrounding it. Like many aspects of the game, Alterac Valley was tuned and adjusted in different ways from patch to patch in 2005-2006.

First and foremost, we’re planning to use the 1.12 version of Alterac Valley. For many parts of the game like this, we’re picking an original WoW patch that gives us the most clarity for WoW: Classic, and 1.12 is that patch.

In Alterac Valley, that puts us before the introduction of reinforcements. It puts us before the removal of all of the Commanders and Lieutenants. The only win conditions are the killing of Drek’thar in Frostwolf Keep or Vanndar Stormpike in Dun Baldar.

It gives us several early improvements to the BG that we’re glad to have in place. Early on in AV, there were too many NPCs and they were too hard to kill. By 1.12, many had been removed and NPC health was brought down to a reasonable level. Turning in armor scraps is an encouraged, supportive activity by this point. Many capture points (mostly graveyards) had been moved away from their initial placements to gain better balance across the map. Korak the Bloodrager was removed, and killing opposing players no longer drops items like Dwarf Spines, Orc Teeth, or Human Bone Chips. Gross.

In our content plan update, we mentioned that we’re still working out exactly how and when PvP elements of Classic will roll out. We’ll update you on that here very soon.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Alterac Valley in Classic started by chaud View original post
Comments 69 Comments
  1. Akka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sirethas View Post
    Wait, I'm confused, why do people think that 24h AV won't be a thing anymore? If I read correctly, there won't be reinforcement limitation which means you can kill each other as long as you like. Or is it because of the NPC nerfs?
    It's the latter. Once the NPC were nerfed enough, it was just about zerging the boss, and many AV lasted only a few minutes with two raids ignoring each other and only aiming at rushing faster than the other.
  1. chiddie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Ah, so basically your entire input is useless and only here to troll. Nice to get a confirmation.
    So I’m not entitled to have an opinion since I’m not interested in Classic?

    /facepalm
  1. Trbn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    So I’m not entitled to have an opinion since I’m not interested in Classic?

    /facepalm
    no

    you are free to go
  1. Sencha's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Pretty sure reinforcements wasn't until TBC. Specifically patch 2.3.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Alterac_Valley

    Patch 2.3.0 (2007-11-13):

    The Horde and Alliance now have a limited number of reinforcements available in the battle for Alterac Valley. The number of reinforcements available is reduced upon player death, loss of towers, and death of Captain Galvangar or Balinda Stonehearth. In addition, all available reinforcements are lost upon the death of General Drek'Thar or Vanndar Stormpike. If a team is reduced to zero reinforcements, the opposing team wins the battle.
    Looks like I misinterpreted the blue post.
  1. sirethas's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    It's the latter. Once the NPC were nerfed enough, it was just about zerging the boss, and many AV lasted only a few minutes with two raids ignoring each other and only aiming at rushing faster than the other.
    Oh...that's disappointing news then, was hoping to experience those long AVs, well things might still change. As for Classic I'm more looking forward the journey to lvl60 than the endgame itself ^^
  1. vashe9's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sirethas View Post
    Oh...that's disappointing news then, was hoping to experience those long AVs, well things might still change. As for Classic I'm more looking forward the journey to lvl60 than the endgame itself ^^
    Are you sure the NPC were not nerfed a second time during bc or woltk ? I think I remember long AV battle even in TBC...
  1. Soimu's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    Nice.

    It would be weird to have another version. The devs can't have the freedom to change too much stuff, or soon WoW Classic would be this weird-ass frankenpatch, not representative of the true Classic WoW patch at all.
    they should change stuff , wow classic should be an improved version not 100% accurate with original since original was flawed and full of bugs
  1. chiddie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    Are you sure the NPC were not nerfed a second time during bc or woltk ? I think I remember long AV battle even in TBC...
    Long battles disappeared because factions players agreed to simply rush the enemy base instead of playing the BG “properly”. If they will all “agree” to try this in Classic also, the BG will be almost like today even with the partial old design it had in Classic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soimu View Post
    they should change stuff , wow classic should be an improved version not 100% accurate with original since original was flawed and full of bugs
    Won’t happen. You want Classic, you’ll get Classic with all its flaws. It’s not a remake, it’s a remaster. You will get the actual graphics (more or less) but not much else.
  1. Akka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    So I’m not entitled to have an opinion since I’m not interested in Classic?

    /facepalm
    Actually, the /facepalm is more deserved for someone who has supposedly no interest in a subject but then still come to shitpost on said subject.

    "hey guys, I've absolutely no interest in cars, but let me tell you just how dumb you are to prefer car X over car Y, because obviously as I don't like cars and I'm not interested in having one means my opinion on which car is better is valuable and you should listen to it"

    /facepalm, indeed.
  1. DarkAvatar7's Avatar
    Bad sign if they start to edit essential things like this even before release.
  1. Otaka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    It's the latter. Once the NPC were nerfed enough, it was just about zerging the boss, and many AV lasted only a few minutes with two raids ignoring each other and only aiming at rushing faster than the other.
    Are you certain? i pvped during the later parts on vanilla and we never had zergs unless it was a premade doing it.
    Also same thing during tbc, used to pvp plenty and still no zerging.

    It was the exact same style of pvp throughout...

    The bosses in drek/vanndar room hit way too hard to be taken all together.
  1. Akka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    Are you certain? i pvped during the later parts on vanilla and we never had zergs unless it was a premade doing it.
    Also same thing during tbc, used to pvp plenty and still no zerging.
    Oh yes I'm certain, I nearly stopped PvPing entirely from TBC onward, and I experienced the zerg rush for a long time.
    It was the exact same style of pvp throughout...

    The bosses in drek/vanndar room hit way too hard to be taken all together.
    Typically you didn't took them all together, you pulled them outside the room, resetted Drek/Vann, then killed them one by one and only then zerged the boss inside.
    An entire Alterac could be cleared in less than 10 minutes if the raid was at least somewhat organized.
  1. Malikath's Avatar
    hopefully they catch a cloud of hot flak to the face for this stupidity.
  1. Mardux's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Actually, the /facepalm is more deserved for someone who has supposedly no interest in a subject but then still come to shitpost on said subject.

    "hey guys, I've absolutely no interest in cars, but let me tell you just how dumb you are to prefer car X over car Y, because obviously as I don't like cars and I'm not interested in having one means my opinion on which car is better is valuable and you should listen to it"

    /facepalm, indeed.
    So s/he isnt really any different than the hundreds of "unsubbed till classic" hypocrites that go to posts to whine about retail WoW? Good to know.

    They obviously have no interest in playing retail or they would be doing it. Yet people are expected to value their opinion on retail...
  1. chiddie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Actually, the /facepalm is more deserved for someone who has supposedly no interest in a subject but then still come to shitpost on said subject.

    "hey guys, I've absolutely no interest in cars, but let me tell you just how dumb you are to prefer car X over car Y, because obviously as I don't like cars and I'm not interested in having one means my opinion on which car is better is valuable and you should listen to it"

    /facepalm, indeed.
    So “I don’t like the endless AV design” is shitposting.

    Ok, noted.
  1. sirethas's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Oh yes I'm certain, I nearly stopped PvPing entirely from TBC onward, and I experienced the zerg rush for a long time.

    Typically you didn't took them all together, you pulled them outside the room, resetted Drek/Vann, then killed them one by one and only then zerged the boss inside.
    An entire Alterac could be cleared in less than 10 minutes if the raid was at least somewhat organized.
    Alright but we talking about somewhat organized group, you think you can expect same for first months in Classic when joining completly random group? I mean, I guess it won't be the same but still
  1. Akka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    So s/he isnt really any different than the hundreds of "unsubbed till classic" hypocrites that go to posts to whine about retail WoW? Good to know.
    No, these guys are still involved in current WoW (considering they are unsubscribing), so their opinion on it is relevant.
    If someone who tried WoW in 2008 and never played it since then came and said "WoW is shit, and I don't understand why anyone would like this pile of crap of Dazar'alar", then yeah it would be a much better parallel.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    So “I don’t like the endless AV design” is shitposting.

    Ok, noted.
    It's shitposting when it comes from someone who has an avowed complete lack of interest in the entire project of Classic to begin with, which means his opinions are irrelevant and he's just posting them to troll.
  1. Thetruth1400's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Yeah because having AV last days is such amazing design
    It was. It actually felt like a constant, ongoing battle; something this game hasn't had for an extremely long time.

    For something that was more of a side experience, it was really good. You hop in, stay for as little or long as you want and then leave. If you want to rejoin later you can join the same fight and don't know what you're going to see. Is your team now much further up the field? Has the enemy rallied and pushed you back?

    Absolutely no harm is had by having that experience exist, but not having it means people that weren't there in Vanilla WoW won't experience it the way it was, which kind of dilutes the Classic experience a fair bit.
  1. chiddie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    No, these guys are still involved in current WoW (considering they are unsubscribing), so their opinion on it is relevant.
    If someone who tried WoW in 2008 and never played it since then came and said "WoW is shit, and I don't understand why anyone would like this pile of crap of Dazar'alar", then yeah it would be a much better parallel.


    It's shitposting when it comes from someone who has an avowed complete lack of interest in the entire project of Classic to begin with, which means his opinions are irrelevant and he's just posting them to troll.
    You have a strange idea of what “opinion” means. I don’t quite understand why if I instead was inteeested in Classic my same opinion on AV would have been received in another way, but indeed, enjoy.
  1. Fenril's Avatar
    Just because it is patch 1.12 from Vanilla doesn't mean it is THE classic AV we want. So be careful what you wish for, once you get it, you are stuck with it for life, so once they zerg every other game lets see how you like those beans, instead we could ask for 1.5. READ BELOW WHAT WAS REMOVED FROM 1.5 to 1.12 and you might agree 1,12 is NOT what we are wanting or hoping for.

    1.5:

    • Winterax Hold
    • Wildpaw Ridge
    • Syndicate NPC’s
    • Mine Layers, Landmines
    • Korrak the Bloodrager
    • Portable Shredder Unit
    • Tower/Bunker Guards
    • Lots of Standing Guards
    • Lots of Patrols
    • Long battles

    1.8:

    • Winterax Hold removed
    • Wildpaw Ridge removed
    • Syndicate NPC’s removed
    • Mine Layers, Landmines removed
    • Shorter battles

    1.10:

    • Korrak the Bloodrager removed
    • Portable Shredder Unit removed

    1.11:

    • Tower/Bunker Guards removed
    • Most Patrols removed
    • Most Standing Guards removed
    • Ridiculous short battle


    Please fight for and let’s make sure we get 1.5 AV. By the time they got to 1.12, a lot of teams was just Zerging to the boss, WE DO NOT WANT 1.12, if you want to play the BG that we all remember, please fight for 1.5.

    PS: Also a GOOD read on what AV used to be and what we need: http://www.blizzardguides.com/altera..._av_guide.html

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