Alterac Valley in Classic
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
This is a subject that has been asked about several times recently, and we want to clarify some of the details surrounding it. Like many aspects of the game, Alterac Valley was tuned and adjusted in different ways from patch to patch in 2005-2006.

First and foremost, we’re planning to use the 1.12 version of Alterac Valley. For many parts of the game like this, we’re picking an original WoW patch that gives us the most clarity for WoW: Classic, and 1.12 is that patch.

In Alterac Valley, that puts us before the introduction of reinforcements. It puts us before the removal of all of the Commanders and Lieutenants. The only win conditions are the killing of Drek’thar in Frostwolf Keep or Vanndar Stormpike in Dun Baldar.

It gives us several early improvements to the BG that we’re glad to have in place. Early on in AV, there were too many NPCs and they were too hard to kill. By 1.12, many had been removed and NPC health was brought down to a reasonable level. Turning in armor scraps is an encouraged, supportive activity by this point. Many capture points (mostly graveyards) had been moved away from their initial placements to gain better balance across the map. Korak the Bloodrager was removed, and killing opposing players no longer drops items like Dwarf Spines, Orc Teeth, or Human Bone Chips. Gross.

In our content plan update, we mentioned that we’re still working out exactly how and when PvP elements of Classic will roll out. We’ll update you on that here very soon.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Alterac Valley in Classic started by chaud View original post
Comments 73 Comments
  1. chiddie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    No, these guys are still involved in current WoW (considering they are unsubscribing), so their opinion on it is relevant.
    If someone who tried WoW in 2008 and never played it since then came and said "WoW is shit, and I don't understand why anyone would like this pile of crap of Dazar'alar", then yeah it would be a much better parallel.


    It's shitposting when it comes from someone who has an avowed complete lack of interest in the entire project of Classic to begin with, which means his opinions are irrelevant and he's just posting them to troll.
    You have a strange idea of what “opinion” means. I don’t quite understand why if I instead was inteeested in Classic my same opinion on AV would have been received in another way, but indeed, enjoy.
  1. Daish's Avatar
    a tip for any children well also everyone who is not a genius like Daish

    you can ninja kite the boss out of the fortress into the mines and kill it there for a easy win
    hell if you wanted to you could kite the boss all the way to the other side of the map and kill it in your own fortress

    also kite korrak from the middle of the base up into the other teams front lines / main base for a good distraction
  1. matheney2k's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Thetruth1400 View Post
    It was. It actually felt like a constant, ongoing battle; something this game hasn't had for an extremely long time.

    For something that was more of a side experience, it was really good. You hop in, stay for as little or long as you want and then leave. If you want to rejoin later you can join the same fight and don't know what you're going to see. Is your team now much further up the field? Has the enemy rallied and pushed you back?

    Absolutely no harm is had by having that experience exist, but not having it means people that weren't there in Vanilla WoW won't experience it the way it was, which kind of dilutes the Classic experience a fair bit.
    As a side experience that is inconsequential to the main player progression I could agree that it would be 'neat' to have, but even then it is very niche. But having it the only version very much does hurt the players experience. Most players will be very discouraged and overwhelmed from even attempting to enter such a feature beyond one time to see it.
  1. Fenril's Avatar
    Just because it is patch 1.12 from Vanilla doesn't mean it is THE classic AV we want. So be careful what you wish for, once you get it, you are stuck with it for life, so once they zerg every other game lets see how you like those beans, instead we could ask for 1.5. READ BELOW WHAT WAS REMOVED FROM 1.5 to 1.12 and you might agree 1,12 is NOT what we are wanting or hoping for.

    1.5:

    • Winterax Hold
    • Wildpaw Ridge
    • Syndicate NPC’s
    • Mine Layers, Landmines
    • Korrak the Bloodrager
    • Portable Shredder Unit
    • Tower/Bunker Guards
    • Lots of Standing Guards
    • Lots of Patrols
    • Long battles

    1.8:

    • Winterax Hold removed
    • Wildpaw Ridge removed
    • Syndicate NPC’s removed
    • Mine Layers, Landmines removed
    • Shorter battles

    1.10:

    • Korrak the Bloodrager removed
    • Portable Shredder Unit removed

    1.11:

    • Tower/Bunker Guards removed
    • Most Patrols removed
    • Most Standing Guards removed
    • Ridiculous short battle


    Please fight for and let’s make sure we get 1.5 AV. By the time they got to 1.12, a lot of teams was just Zerging to the boss, WE DO NOT WANT 1.12, if you want to play the BG that we all remember, please fight for 1.5.

    PS: Also a GOOD read on what AV used to be and what we need: http://www.blizzardguides.com/altera..._av_guide.html
  1. Mukki's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by sirethas View Post
    Wait, I'm confused, why do people think that 24h AV won't be a thing anymore? If I read correctly, there won't be reinforcement limitation which means you can kill each other as long as you like. Or is it because of the NPC nerfs? I haven't play vanilla AV just curious what made AV really long then, I was under the impression that it was the fact that it had no reinforcement limits.

    I'm kinda sad about this "killing opposing players no longer drops items like Dwarf Spines, Orc Teeth, or Human Bone Chips" I think that would be awesome tbh :P
    No, it's just that a lot of people here don't know how to read and like to have knee-jerk reactions, even if it's a reaction to something that doesn't exist.
  1. Fenril's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Bad choice. The original AV had much more content and was a lot more fun. The latest version was just a boring zerg rush.
    Too bad that they basically chose the worst version available.
    You have all these NON-Vanilla players saying "YEA, GREAT, no more reinforcements". But have most of you truly read what the original AV was like?

    Before you comment or reply, do yourself a favor and read from a great source what AV was really about at this link:

    http://www.blizzardguides.com/altera..._av_guide.html

    Here is just a little that I copied and pasted:

    Elemental Lords - Sometimes when you loot an enemy player, you will find either a Storm Crystal (for alliance looting horde) or a Stormpike Soldier's Blood (for horde looting alliance). When you have handed in a LOT of these (500 or so I think? Not sure...) then in your base, the Primalist for horde or Archdruid for alliance, will yell for assistance. He and an escort of shamans/druids will then proceed towards the field of strife. Once they reach the outskirts, they will begin a summoning ritual. They will then require 10 players to come and help the summon (the same as a beefed up warlock summoning). After the ritual is done, an elemental lord will enter the field of strife. For alliance this is Ivus the Forest Lord, and for horde it is Lokholar the Icelord.

    These 2 bosses will remain on the field of strife for roughly 20 minutes before heading towards the enemy base, obliterating all in their path. These things are extremely tough to take down, and virtually impossible if the other team is good at healing/buffing them. The best way, owing to a pretty stupid AI, is simply to have a hunter pull the boss all the way back to your teams general, who will then annihilate the puny elemental lord.

    Note if the primalist/druid is killed before they can start the summoning ritual, then that is the end of it, and you have just wasted a lot of blood/storm crystals, and will have to wait for a pretty hefty respawn time.

    Cavalry! - To get your teams cavalry onto the field requires 2 things. Firstly, some of your team will have to spend some time taming wolves for horde or rams for alliance (you are given the taming thing with the quest) and returning them to the stable-master NPC who you got the quest from. For alliance he is at the back of Dun Baldar, for the horde he is outside of the base on the eastern side of the BG, south of the entry portal.

    The other part of this is to collect ram or wolf hides. This means you have to kill the opposing teams beasts (ie if you are horde you kill rams and vice versa) and loot a "Alterac Ram Hide" or "Frostwolf Hide". Once you have collected 25 wolves/rams and 25 ram/wolf hides respectively, you can give the order to let loose the cavalry. They will march out to the field of strife and remain there patrolling a set route until told otherwise. However, if you have some reputation with your Alterac faction (honored I think) you can then talk to the cavalry commander and tell him to attack. This will then cause your cavalry to charge towards the enemy base. Cavalry can prove deadly against the enemy zerg, and should be used wisely since once the commander is dead he has a long respawn before you can start collecting stuff again.

    Another note is that by killing the enemy cavalry commander, this will automatically force the enemy cavalry to attack in the same way as if the attack order was given. This is useful just if you have the enemy cavalry patrolling and want to get rid of them quickly before the other team can use them at a better time.

    Aerial Support - Another thing you may loot from time to time is either Frostwolf Medals (for alliance killing horde) or Stormpike Flesh (for horde killing alliance, not to be confused with the blood required for the icelord). There are 3 different types and they appear to be "dropped" pretty much at random. Until you have rescued your wing commanders, there is nothing you can do with these.

    Each team has 3 wing commanders, all of which have been captured and are being held prisoner by the enemy. For the horde these are as follows - Wing Commander Guse is in Icewing Bunker, Jeztor is in the Stormpike Lumber Mill, and Mulverick is in the Dun Baldar North Bunker. For the alliance, I don't know the names, but they are in Tower Point, a little hut near the gate of frostwolf village, and in frostwolf villages western tower.

    When you have found them, you can talk to them and tell them to go back to base. This they will do, and it is up to you to protect them until they get there. If they are killed along the way then that's it, they don't respawn. This means that it is a really bad idea to try to free one when he is in the middle of a tower with loads of NPCs guarding him, as he will just be slaughtered by the guards immediately.

    Once they are back in base however, the wing commanders will accept a certain type of medal/flesh depending on which wing commander they are. Once you have handed in enough of whatever they want, you will be able to do 2 things.

    1) Obtain a beacon, which must be planted somewhere on the field of strife and protected for 1 minute. After this minute is up, a bat rider or gryphon rider (depending on faction) will come and fly around the field of strife. You can get one of these for each wing commander, and having 3 of these things flying around battering the enemy is a nice advantage.

    2) Tell the wing commander to attack, upon which he/she will mount up on his/her bat/gryphon and fly to a specific location, after which they will act pretty much like a normal bat rider but a lot tougher and more powerful.

    You can do each of these things for each wing commander, so there is no sense in telling a wing commander to attack before you have gotten a beacon from him/her.
    Also note after the wing commander is out flying, there is then no use whatsoever for his/her specific type of flesh/medal, so you can safely destroy it.

    READ MORE HERE: https://www.mmo-champion.com/newrepl...turn_node=8397
  1. korijenkins's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by cozzri View Post
    This is sad news, the overpowered NPCs made the battleground feel much more dangerous and encouraged teamwork. You weren't going to run all the way to the enemy base on your horese, you would get destroyed.... and Korrak was an amazing threat in the field of strife and graveyard.
    Yep. This is part of the reason a lot of people were so hard for "no changes"

    Even a small change can impact the game in a huge way.
  1. Akka's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenril View Post
    You have all these NON-Vanilla players
    Care to provide an actual argument that support this gratuitous claim ? Or are you just talking out of your ass because you thought everyone would just take it at face value ?
    saying "YEA, GREAT, no more reinforcements". But have most of you truly read what the original AV was like?
    Don't need to read about what I actually played, herp derp.
  1. Wyshbonez's Avatar
    I remember doing AV back in the day, i wanted the frostwolf..... wolf mount, they say horde are blood thirsty creatures...... well have you ever had to summon the AV horde boss? YES that is a cubic fuckton of blood :P ahh the good ol days, i think the longest match i saw/participated in multiple times lasted damn near the whole reset. Glory to the ol days
  1. Aildrik's Avatar
    I have to admit I am sorta sad about this version of AV being chosen Original AV felt like an amazing combination of BG and questing zone and it required a lot of teamwork to win. The fighting was epic and of course as mentioned, a single match could last for days.

    That said, I heard (sorry if it was already mentioned in this thread) that Blizzard does not have a surviving complete copy of their code prior to patch 1.8 or something like that. Thus, they would have to manually recreate or fill in any missing data from those older patches such as 1.5. Maybe eventually they could get really close but would it be worth the effort? I heard that is part of the reason they chose the later patch version as they had an intact, complete copy of the DB/code.

    It would be cool if they could put in tech to periodically revert AV to true classic 1.5, because players who were not around and never experienced that AV are really missing out on a unique experience.
  1. Tonkaden's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Aildrik View Post
    I have to admit I am sorta sad about this version of AV being chosen Original AV felt like an amazing combination of BG and questing zone and it required a lot of teamwork to win. The fighting was epic and of course as mentioned, a single match could last for days.

    That said, I heard (sorry if it was already mentioned in this thread) that Blizzard does not have a surviving complete copy of their code prior to patch 1.8 or something like that. Thus, they would have to manually recreate or fill in any missing data from those older patches such as 1.5. Maybe eventually they could get really close but would it be worth the effort? I heard that is part of the reason they chose the later patch version as they had an intact, complete copy of the DB/code.

    It would be cool if they could put in tech to periodically revert AV to true classic 1.5, because players who were not around and never experienced that AV are really missing out on a unique experience.
    People talk about AV going on for days was a blast. It wasn't. Sure, it was fun for an hour or two, but with no end in sight, you had a lot of turnover. There is a reason they changed it.

    While AV shouldn't be zergable, it definitely shouldn't last hours and hours. A sweet spot would be 60-90 minutes with960 minutes being the max.
  1. bbr's Avatar
    I loved the long battles though,. rogues and stealth capping was actually a thing,.

    The zerg rushing just feels empty.
  1. wushootaki's Avatar
    It's sad to see that Korrak won't be there, as the stand off between raids on who was going to deal with him first was a huge part of the fun. As was interupting the other raid group.

    I also will miss disarming landmines in the horde base, as disarm traps had zero use outside the Suppression Room.

    Overall I'd love for 1.5 and am saddened by this.

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