Loot Trading in Classic

Originally Posted by Kralljin

A stupid Revert.

Let's get real: it can happen to anyone to hit Need instead of Greed, or that you decide you'd rather give an item to another person because they wear real shit compared to yours.

Those "advantageous" situations far outnumber the "abuse" situations, it's so damn rare that a pre made consists of four people, but then rely on a random person to get a fifth, that by itself doesn't even guarantee the abuse, as it requires the intent of four other people to be a dickbag to another.
Even then, you can just avoid the situation by inviting a class that doesn't use item your group wants.

If you go into SM Armory because your Warrior buddy wants all the good stuff in there - don't invite another Warrior / Paladin / Shaman, it's that simple.

The situation that actually makes the abuse possible is just too damn rare to justify a change that basically screws over everyone.

Not really, you want Vanilla, you get Vanilla or otherwise you're removing the Nostalgic factors (ninja looters, etc, etc).

The difference between Classic development and "Live" is stunning. Live is running it's own race to be the "Perfect Game for Everyone" (which of course doesn't work) and doesn't really listen to anyone before people has been bitching about x issue for 3-6 months before even acknowledging it properly (8.2 and Azerite, as an example), while Classic just unapologetically keeps doing whatever it can to balance true-to-original and rational decisions. Classic doesn't apologize for being true to the original just because it was archaic, while Live doesn't even dare to have an actual target demographic anymore. No, EVERYONE has to be superhappy in BFA.

Every time I read a post about Classic development I am hyped even more. It really does feel like true enthusiasts are trying to recreate the experience as close as they can without re-adding the very worst parts (that has absolutely no place in a game, regardless of whether it's 2005 or [CURRENT YEAR])

Originally Posted by suprep

Not really, you want Vanilla, you get Vanilla or otherwise you're removing the Nostalgic factors (ninja looters, etc, etc).

Will we also get to play on pentium 4 computers, have the game shut down non-stop for 6+ months and downgrade our internet to DSL?

if not then why are you even here, pleb?

Originally Posted by suprep

Not really, you want Vanilla, you get Vanilla or otherwise you're removing the Nostalgic factors (ninja looters, etc, etc).

So that's why loot trading in raids is still on?
This argument is stupid, as the point raised by Blizzard has nothing to do with preserving the integrity of the Vanilla ideal.

It's about closing the potential loophole for abuse in 5man Dungeons.

If it were about "getting Vanilla", Blizzard would put redistribution via GM ticket back into Vanilla, but that doesn't happen due "structural" at Blizzard.

Originally Posted by Takkero

This is NOT anymore a 100% vanilla experience. You are mixing OLD and NEW stuff too much. Don't u have ever think that people want vanilla for WHAT IT WAS? no.. just mess up things again blizz... recently u are very good at ruining ur IP. keep going like this...bha..

The only way to have the real Vanilla would be to have the exact patches cycle of Vanilla with the same exact release times from 1.0 to 1.12.2.

I understand it would be nice, but it would require an enormous amount of work behind that is totally anti-echonomical and probably not necessary for the most part.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

So that's why loot trading in raids is still on?
This argument is stupid, as the point raised by Blizzard has nothing to do with preserving the integrity of the Vanilla ideal.

It's about closing the potential loophole for abuse in 5man Dungeons.

If it were about "getting Vanilla", Blizzard would put redistribution via GM ticket back into Vanilla, but that doesn't happen due "structural" at Blizzard.

This 100% People should use some common sense...this really really does not change anything.
I bet people that are all against this loot change would be huge drama queens if they lost a piece of good gear by some accident and had to wait 2-3 days to actually get it.
I can see the threads already: " OMG I have to wait 3 days for my gear WTF BLizz U suck "

Originally Posted by Xilurm

You can't "accidentally" loot an item that's meant for another player.

Wanna bet?

I remember loot masters giving gear to the wrong player on many occasions. This is a major reason why they brought in loot trading on BoP items and it freed up GMs to take care of other complaints.

5 man loot will be trad-able in classic.

Soulbound loot that drops in five-person content will not be tradeable at any time.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

A stupid Revert.

Let's get real: it can happen to anyone to hit Need instead of Greed, or that you decide you'd rather give an item to another person because they wear real shit compared to yours.

Those "advantageous" situations far outnumber the "abuse" situations, it's so damn rare that a pre made consists of four people, but then rely on a random person to get a fifth, that by itself doesn't even guarantee the abuse, as it requires the intent of four other people to be a dickbag to another.
Even then, you can just avoid the situation by inviting a class that doesn't use item your group wants.

If you go into SM Armory because your Warrior buddy wants all the good stuff in there - don't invite another Warrior / Paladin / Shaman, it's that simple.

The situation that actually makes the abuse possible is just too damn rare to justify a change that basically screws over everyone.

I believe it just looks like the system is made so that internally it won't allow guildmates to abuse it. Let's be real, if it were available the chances of someone doing it would increase significantly. If it was all of a sudden completely legal to bot, the number of people that normally wouldn't bot would consider it or do it.

I want to imagine it's in a case-by-case scenario though. If you're in a pug 5 man and a piece is accidentally needed, I can see how a GM would be more sympathetic than if it was 4 guildies and a pug.

Originally Posted by Mrbleedinggums

I believe it just looks like the system is made so that internally it won't allow guildmates to abuse it.

The point still stands, if they are four people already, chances are they'll find a fifth within their guild just to not have that one random element (unless said fifth needs to be a Tank / Healer, but no one sane would screw over their Tank / Healer unless it's the final boss).

But then also, four people with the same guild tag screwing over multiple random person will cause a stir sooner or later, reputation or whatnot is still a thing.

Originally Posted by Mrbleedinggums

Let's be real, if it were available the chances of someone doing it would increase significantly.

You'd still need to overcome to initial barriers to actually meet the described case, it's not like everyone will start grouping up as four in order to screw over a single person, there is no additional benefit over inviting a fifth person you know, unless you secretly dislike the fifth person.

I'm not denying that it would happen - it would, but the actual incidents would still be very low, because you need:

1.Four people who know each other but cannot find a fifth within the guild / friend list
2.Four people being willing to screw over another person and thus potentially damage their own reputation and of their guild
3.Them not just inviting a class that doesn't need loot they want in order to avoid any loot conflicts (or just four manning the dungeon to also avoid conflict)
4.Person still has a 20% chance to win an item

I love how this is such a well-reasoned compromise. Is it purely Classic? No. Is that a problem? Honestly, no! If ninjas want to ninja in 5-mans, they still will. Generally, people will be solid thanks to the strict rules. This is great. Then, in raids where generally all are friends, or at least much more connected as a team, when mistakes happen (and they will) this will make resolution much easier and quicker, without having to strain Blizz resources or wait for any period of time to fix problems. This is great! Well done, Blizz - love this reasonable middle ground and all the other ways you're showing that you care, are listening, and most-importantly are acting on that feedback in ways that are faithful to the game/community.

Originally Posted by Laerrus

Wanna bet?

I remember loot masters giving gear to the wrong player on many occasions. This is a major reason why they brought in loot trading on BoP items and it freed up GMs to take care of other complaints.

Absolutely - we had two paladins in our guild - Tomy and Talkintommy. When they're both called Tommy, and someone tells ML that Tommy won the roll, I mean of course there are problems. Being able to quickly fix mistakes when ML'ing raids is an important and rational compromise.

Seems reasonable to me, but hey, just my own opinion, dont torch me.

lol the 2 post about not been trully vanilla, look like made only to star a fight. Literally this change dont affect the experience at all.

One of those minor changes that I can be ok with. I wish they just left it as it was orginally in the game but honestly if a GM misloots something and it being tradable in a raid isn't a big deal.

Originally Posted by Fleugen

Then there's equally as much potential that someone invites a Warrior to their mostly-Warrior group since 90% of tanks will need to level Warrior, and refusing to bring any Warriors when most people want a Warrior is going to be very, very difficult.

As a rule of thumb, if you have a Warrior in your group, you have a tank, thus the need for another warrior is eliminated.
At least 5 man dungeons, raids are another story.

Originally Posted by Fleugen

The difference here is: Blizzard is stopping a group of people from abusing a situation, vs. you're complaining about an occasional asshole who might try to ninja your stuff and, therefore, ruin their reputation over it.

No, the point is that a decent change is reverted solely on the basis of a situation that will rarely ever occur.

Being able to trade loot has nothing to do with ninja looting in a strict sense, ninja looting is putting on PM, then moving the stuff you want into your bags.
Ninja looting, at least in the context of Vanilla, always involved Master loot, as in regular group loot, you could roll need on literally anything without any actual repercussions, unless you consider rolling need on everything ninja looting.

Being able to trade loot doesn't prevent or fixes ninja looting, they want to have it, not give it to you.

Ok, so it will not be the full vanilla experience. I'm done.

Originally Posted by Kralljin

Those "advantageous" situations far outnumber the "abuse" situations, it's so damn rare that a pre made consists of four people, but then rely on a random person to get a fifth, that by itself doesn't even guarantee the abuse, as it requires the intent of four other people to be a dickbag to another.
Even then, you can just avoid the situation by inviting a class that doesn't use item your group wants.

You didn't play vanilla...did you? It was very common for a group of friends to have to search for a few extra members to fill their ranks, and often took quite some time to fill the spot. There's nothing "damn rare" about this sort of situation, loot problems were rampant in earlier expansions.

It's a good change.

Originally Posted by Fluttershy

Will we also get to play on pentium 4 computers, have the game shut down non-stop for 6+ months and downgrade our internet to DSL?

if not then why are you even here, pleb?

Well if you want to get that far, I guess we shouldn't be having vanilla after all eh? The year is 2019, not 2004-2005. I'm not the one wanting vanilla, been there done that.

Anyhow, I highly doubt that this is going to be an issue considering 5 man loot gets pretty outdated once you start raiding, so really I don't see this being an issue.

Many are arguing about it not being vanilla. It has nothing to do with how it plays ingame, it has something to do with the amount of work that has to go in for people outside of the game. If you make a game that requires 100 hour weeks for employees to help with customer support, it isn't about playing a game anymore. If you can reduce that work load to a standard work week while the game is basically the same except a third party isn't required, what is the issue? The third party here is the customer support which would take/give loot from the first party to the second party.

Originally Posted by smegmage

You didn't play vanilla...did you?

Yeah i did, does this now (in)validate your point?
This question is at best a rhetorical one, however one that has been repeated way too often on this forum, nor has any value.

Originally Posted by smegmage

It was very common for a group of friends to have to search for a few extra members to fill their ranks, and often took quite some time to fill the spot.

Considering Blizzard explicitly described four people, i'd say yes, it was damn rare.
Especially in dungeons below 60, as all four people had to be within the same level range.

And if the last spot is a dps, it took absolutely no time to fill that one.
Besides, they could put on Master loot if they wanted to, so you either left or accepted that you're not in a position of power.