Feedback: Epic Battlegrounds

I'm very surprised that this is their fix for AV. NPCs are already tanky and strong, to the point where doing a boss with less than 4 towers/bunkers down is not possible and galv/balinda being skipped 100% of the time already. The real problem in AV as far as I can tell is that the current meta of defending IB and SH and slowly pushing through is heavily in favor of the Horde, since IB is much easier to defend not only because of tower vs. bunker layout, but because of the chokepoints and high ground. If they keep buffing NPCs, which in this case might be more the case of just keeping things as they are in anticipation of average player ilvl inflation, Horde will just cling on to their map advantage. This really fixes nothing.

The IoC changes don't really have an impact one way or the other, other than making docks even riskier because glaives would have to stay alive longer. If anything this makes hangar even better and even more consistent. The turret on siege will still 2 shot entire raid groups in a few seconds and demos will still be very effective vs. players.

The WG changes I personally find very sad. Catas being so strong allowed players like myself to have an enormous impact on the BG, sometimes getting 50+ killing blows and really hard-carrying the match. Yes Catas are absolutely OP, but simply nerfing them will get ahead of players actually realizing how dangerous they are in melee range and how squishy and rootable the vehicles are. Currently just 2 good dps can absolutely 2v1 a single cata without dying as long as they properly kite and use cc and defensive cooldowns. A single person that knows what they are doing will lose the 1v1 against a cata, but at the very least take most of its health down with him. I don't like this change and I wish Blizzard would give the community a chance to learn how to deal with catas before taking away the high risk and high reward potential of catas. Depending on how big this nerf is, demos might just be the best vehicle now, just sitting at 100 yards shooting at groups of people, vehicles and of course walls.

I wish they were more transparent about winrates across all the epic BGs too btw, this is only half the story they are telling here.

>We are going to fix the BG's by increasing the most annoying parts of them. Thank you.

I hope they update how you turn in items in AV to be like Warfronts and Broken Shore. A big reason none of the NPCs are summoned is that the turn-in system is so tedious. It'd be nice if they had an updated version of the stormpike insignia too.

Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende

>We are going to fix the BG's by increasing the most annoying parts of them. Thank you.

Exactly what I thought.
The main reason why I don't play epic bis anymore are the russian "premade" groups in the EU. I don't have any issues with being slaughtered ingame if the enemy team pushes towards victory in a fast and efficient way. But this completely reactive and defensive play just drives me mad. Sometimes I just want some AV nostalgia and end up in a 1hour IoC where nobody in my team even wants to fight anymore.

Regarding Wintergrasp: It was a pure pain during Wotlk already. Bringing this one back is another example for analysing data in a wrong way. The only cause of Wintergrasp was to unlock the bosses afterwards. This is why everybody participated because there was just free loot including gladiator gear waiting for the players.

Another reason for me personally is the ongoing balancing / fixing of the epic bgs. It seems that everbody has a different state of knowledge what does work to win and what does not.

Originally Posted by Thelxi

I'm very surprised that this is their fix for AV. NPCs are already tanky and strong, to the point where doing a boss with less than 4 towers/bunkers down is not possible and galv/balinda being skipped 100% of the time already. The real problem in AV as far as I can tell is that the current meta of defending IB and SH and slowly pushing through is heavily in favor of the Horde, since IB is much easier to defend not only because of tower vs. bunker layout, but because of the chokepoints and high ground. If they keep buffing NPCs, which in this case might be more the case of just keeping things as they are in anticipation of average player ilvl inflation, Horde will just cling on to their map advantage. This really fixes nothing.

The IoC changes don't really have an impact one way or the other, other than making docks even riskier because glaives would have to stay alive longer. If anything this makes hangar even better and even more consistent. The turret on siege will still 2 shot entire raid groups in a few seconds and demos will still be very effective vs. players.

The WG changes I personally find very sad. Catas being so strong allowed players like myself to have an enormous impact on the BG, sometimes getting 50+ killing blows and really hard-carrying the match. Yes Catas are absolutely OP, but simply nerfing them will get ahead of players actually realizing how dangerous they are in melee range and how squishy and rootable the vehicles are. Currently just 2 good dps can absolutely 2v1 a single cata without dying as long as they properly kite and use cc and defensive cooldowns. A single person that knows what they are doing will lose the 1v1 against a cata, but at the very least take most of its health down with him. I don't like this change and I wish Blizzard would give the community a chance to learn how to deal with catas before taking away the high risk and high reward potential of catas. Depending on how big this nerf is, demos might just be the best vehicle now, just sitting at 100 yards shooting at groups of people, vehicles and of course walls.

I wish they were more transparent about winrates across all the epic BGs too btw, this is only half the story they are telling here.

Cant agree with this more.

Last time I queued for "Epic Battlegrounds" there was like a 40min queue (queued it every day for the daily win conquest). Then we join it and it's like the name Epic is ironic, it's mind numbing.

People don't like doing these.
They are:
1. Not effective - the time it takes vs conquest points earned
2. Has way too long of a queue time
3. They are simply not FUN

Your maps can have a less than 5% difference in win ratio on defence vs. attack all they want.

Balanced maps don't automatically make them fun.
Just like balanced classes does not automatically make them fun. It actually makes them incredibly boring.

Who are the NPCs in AV not too strong for other than tanks (which is how it should be)? I still get wrecked on any of my characters if I try to fight 2 graveyard guards at once. They hit for 50k a swing at 400 ilvl. Riding by iceblood tower and getting hit by the archers takes half my hp before I'm out of range. Is it different on the horde side since the alliance towers are set up so you can only be hit by 1 or 2 archers at once (except in dun baldar when in range of 2 towers)? You get hit by 3 horde ones at a time regularly and 5 or 6 in the horde base.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by MiiiMiii

2. Has way too long of a queue time

This is only a horde problem (or maybe EU). Alliance Epic bg queues in the US are 2-3 minutes except maybe really early morning when you might get a 10 minute queue.

Originally Posted by Thelxi

I'm very surprised that this is their fix for AV. NPCs are already tanky and strong, to the point where doing a boss with less than 4 towers/bunkers down is not possible and galv/balinda being skipped 100% of the time already.

I just want to point out this part specifically real fast.

Don't you think that the fact that two bosses that use to be required kills had fallen into becoming 100% skipped? That does not seem like a design issue to you at all from lack of BG maintenance? If anything, this change should make them out to be more valued targets to hit. Why is it strange to think that Blizzard wants players to actually care about objectives like Galvanger and Balinda?

as horde i still won't give a f8ck about 'epic' bgs, they favor alliance so hard before i stopped playing and doubt it will change at all

Originally Posted by fnathwath

Horde has a massive advantage in everything

Wait, what???

How about revamping AV map it looks so fukin...BAD we are in 2019 and we have to play in a map with PS1 graphics..

Originally Posted by Byucknah The Red

I just want to point out this part specifically real fast.

Don't you think that the fact that two bosses that use to be required kills had fallen into becoming 100% skipped? That does not seem like a design issue to you at all from lack of BG maintenance? If anything, this change should make them out to be more valued targets to hit. Why is it strange to think that Blizzard wants players to actually care about objectives like Galvanger and Balinda?

Galvanger and Balinda are skipped because they're too strong already and their importance decreased because of the switch to 700 resources instead of 600. They're still usually killed in resource win games, but other than that there's no point in wasting so much time on them to try to kill them. It's too easy to wipe anything but a full raid on them with a minimal amount of resistance.

Originally Posted by R-aiden

How about revamping AV map it looks so fukin...BAD we are in 2019 and we have to play in a map with PS1 graphics..

Imagine 80 people in one spot in a BFA quality area with constant combat going on. It would either lag or be nigh unplayable. And it already lags admittedly on rare occasion in IOC when it gets a bit intense.

The Epic BGs are unlikely to get a graphical revamp.

does anyone even care about these bgs? they are so boring.

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

Imagine 80 people in one spot in a BFA quality area with constant combat going on. It would either lag or be nigh unplayable. And it already lags admittedly on rare occasion in IOC when it gets a bit intense.

The Epic BGs are unlikely to get a graphical revamp.

????

I run at extreme settings and do a LOT of epic Bg's (which Alliance loses most A/V and a 50/50 IOC and WG) and rarely have ANY lag in the massive midfield battles I participate in.

Making Isle of Conquest more grinding will not make it fun.

Originally Posted by Locruid

????

I run at extreme settings and do a LOT of epic Bg's (which Alliance loses most A/V and a 50/50 IOC and WG) and rarely have ANY lag in the massive midfield battles I participate in.

uuh, sorry that not everyone else who play this game have your pc settings buddy

People are doing Wintergrasp????

Originally Posted by Misuteri

People are doing Wintergrasp????

People are playing WoW?

Originally Posted by Locruid

????

I run at extreme settings and do a LOT of epic Bg's (which Alliance loses most A/V and a 50/50 IOC and WG) and rarely have ANY lag in the massive midfield battles I participate in.

I note you said 'rarely' and not 'never.' So at max settings you do encounter the brief bit of lag - when the environments are at Vanilla-level design.

Do you really think they won't suddenly start lagging a lot when you update things to use models that have a hundred times the polygons?