Rise of Azshara Content Preview Live Stream

"Welcome back to one of the most epic battlegrounds of all time, Ashran." Jeremy can make jokes guys.

Jack Atlas' Wheel of Fortune

Originally Posted by Servasus

The people here bitching came here prepared to bitch even before the deep dive started. They don't want to see the game succeed because in their sad, lonely minds they've already decided the game is trash and that nothing Blizzard could ever do would change that. Or that the game is trash simply because Blizzard won't SPECIFICALLY implement or take out XYZ.

The guy here claiming there are other MMOs out there that balance "grind" and "fun" better than WoW, for example, is just cringe-worthy. ALL MMOs are grindy. That is literally what an MMO is. I think what you really want is some shit console single player game where everything is handed to you for little to no time investment or effort in an extremely linear manner.

The most hilarious part to me about that specific guy is that WoW Classic, the thing which 80% of the nostalgiatards here are jizzing over, was literally the most grindy, unrewarding state of the game WoW has ever seen. Yeah, have fun grinding out an entire set of fire resistant gear over months and months just to be able to kill a boss that only has 3 abilities but is "difficult" simply because his health and fire damage are over-tuned to emulate "challenge."

man i love you post.
And you right, ppl claim that Classic wasnt griding are plain stupid since it was the most griding point on wow proabbly, hell still rememeber some rep back them good lord.
Plus from GW2 to SW to FF14 every mmo have grind on it.
Ppl that been playiong wow forever and change to a new game claim that everything is better bc everything is new.
But you right mmochamp become a QQing forum, ppl here come to QQ even if the game get better.
And not make me speak about fucking Talent point on classic, bullshit was rp, since if you where a pvper or pver you have a preset talent tree for max your dps. If not you wont be getting into a good raid or good pvp group.

I have not watched the video or read the bullet points, but I have already formed an opinion. In this thirty two page essay I will lay out why retail is crap and not even Classic will save the game...

I think this looks fantastic. Can't wait for the story to progress, see the new raid, and freaking Mechagon looks amazing.

Originally Posted by Sunaka

I actually think the pre-launch skill point system had more innate reward for playing than the talent points did, and yet both systems were crap overall. Talent points let you make a tailored character when you really wanted to, but by the same token it let you be a completely wasted raid slot during early raiding. Vanilla's entire reward for the leveling process was itself and the opening of the gateway to later content. The accomplishment of hitting 60 was, for a massive number of people, a sense of relief that that portion of the grind had completed. Some people liked both the accomplishment and the relief, which is why it's still looked at fondly. But QoL wise, the game was pretty terrible compared to at least Legion. And the post-60 grind (especially, say, PvP), was downright unhealthy from any objective viewpoint.

I'm not saying Vanilla was perfect, dont get me wrong. The pvp ranking system was trash, most will agree. But it captured the feeling of an RPG, and the progression of your character. When you finished and hit 60, you felt rewarded simply for the fact of completing it. It was the end of one journey, and the start of the next. Not to mention, on top of all that, the games systems at the time encouraged you to interact with other players along the way, so by the time you finished that first journey of leveling, you had made a group of friends to keep doing things with.

Classic wasn't great because of its game systems, although some were better than what we have now, and vice versa. But it was the community aspect that made the game great. Now a days, you can level a toon from 1 - 120 on a new server, and not meet anyone of any significance to yourself by the time you finish. You just queue for everything, never say a word to them, and then hit max level to queue again. It's sad, and its one of the things i miss most about current WoW was a sense of community, and specifically server communities.

all these bastards here constantly shitting on WoW, got some advice for you go away, all this sounds great!

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

So far literally nothing about Nazjatar is "new" though. Design wise.

The Azshara fight will change the future of Azeroth.

I mean no shit. Did not fighting Arthas change the future? Or Garrosh? Had we lost then we would have basically been destroyed for the most part.

Not really much. If Arthas would have won, deathwing would have killed him a few months later and the aspects would still get the dragon soul and kill deathwing.

Garrosh would try to conquer the world, but lets be realistic. He would find himself at the blackhand position, which would force him to a other world or reconsider his plans.

Originally Posted by Onikaroshi

Retail is actually in a horrible state for loot.

If your sole goal is to constantly get loot, retail is fantastic for it. Because of titan forging etc, you've always got loot to chase. You get what... 6-8 pieces of loot per raid boss for a 20 man raid? Plus loot coins each week, plus m+ cache, etc.

Theres more loot options now than at any point in the games history. Stop contradicting yourself.

Originally Posted by bloodykiller86

all these bastards here constantly shitting on WoW, got some advice for you go away, all this sounds great!

thats a vastly single minded point of view, you can easily completely avoid lfd/lfr. you can use LFG, you can talk to people just fine etc. sounds more like a YOU problem. I leveled pretty much by myself in vanilla besides a few times and you get pretty much the same social interaction joining a guild and progressing. LFR is not progression lol

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Originally Posted by WashedUpRaider

Thousands and thousands of people disagree with you. Different strokes for different folks. You call it a forced grind, I call it an RPG with an awesome story, and a feeling of progressing your character. It's not rose colored glasses, considering I've played on private servers for years, and enjoy it til this day. I can't wait for classic to launch and do it all AGAIN.

Why is it that people feel the need to dump on something they dont like, that has no impact on the thing they do like? You realize classic and retail are not mutually exclusive right?

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The point of an RPG isnt solely loot... But like I said, different strokes for different folks. If all you're playing for is loot, then retail is in a great state for you.

you realize its people like you who constantly shit on live right? the story in vanilla was complete trash, terrible itemization, boring rotations, slow character gameplay etc lol i loved it back in the day too but i dont completely ignore all the massive problems it had. and because i think MMOs should never go back in time to please some people stuck in the past

yay cant wait for "gantz" mount make it way to shop ^^ :P

Originally Posted by WashedUpRaider

Now a days, you can level a toon from 1 - 120 on a new server, and not meet anyone of any significance to yourself by the time you finish.

I'm still confused by this position. I leveled 3 characters to 60 during Vanilla, and I only started sometime after Naxx hit. (I stopped playing before beta ended, to be clear.) I didn't encounter a single person I would've wanted to continue running stuff with until I hit 60 the second time. For the most part, I did my entire 1-60 each time without much involvement at all. Not for lack of trying...just people were about as terrible as they are today...there were just more of them I had to deal with in order to find anyone. The whole "sense of community" thing is pretty subjective. I was on a high pop server and oh man, you could not convince me that the community was great back then. More intertwined, definitely. Better? Definitely a place for debate.

As a point of note on the whole "the community was better" thing: Horde (or even Alliance) pulling Kazzak to Stormwind was people being UTTERLY TERRIBLE. Guilds blocking each other (even same faction) from completing world bosses was UTTERLY TERRIBLE. It didn't make the community better. Trading was underhanded. People were offensive. They came together now and then, and people knew each other more, but it's not like everyone was walking around with etiquette and consideration.

Originally Posted by WashedUpRaider

If your sole goal is to constantly get loot, retail is fantastic for it. Because of titan forging etc, you've always got loot to chase. You get what... 6-8 pieces of loot per raid boss for a 20 man raid? Plus loot coins each week, plus m+ cache, etc.

Theres more loot options now than at any point in the games history. Stop contradicting yourself.

Wrath was the perfect state for loot.

FFXIV does loot perfectly as well IMO

Nowadays you can't AIM for anything, player agency has been completely stripped and you're left with nothing but RNG. WF and TF creates a situation where you can't reach BiS anymore, and that's what a lot of people played for.

Vanilla's crappy amount of loot may have been bad, but its still better then what we have now. I was just saying it was unrewarding compared to systems we had in the future.

Originally Posted by Sunaka

I'm still confused by this position. I leveled 3 characters to 60 during Vanilla, and I only started sometime after Naxx hit. (I stopped playing before beta ended, to be clear.) I didn't encounter a single person I would've wanted to continue running stuff with until I hit 60. For the most part, I did my entire 1-60 each time without much involvement at all. Not for lack of trying...just people were about as terrible as they are today...there were just more of them I had to deal with in order to find anyone. The whole "sense of community" thing is pretty subjective. I was on a high pop server and oh man, you could not convince me that the community was great back then. More intertwined, definitely. Better? Definitely a place for debate.

finally a person with an actual view of how things were back then lol

Originally Posted by Onikaroshi

Wrath was the perfect state for loot.

FFXIV does loot perfectly as well IMO

Nowadays you can't AIM for anything, player agency has been completely stripped and you're left with nothing but RNG. WF and TF creates a situation where you can't reach BiS anymore, and that's what a lot of people played for.

Vanilla's crappy amount of loot may have been bad, but its still better then what we have now. I was just saying it was unrewarding compared to systems we had in the future.

Yep. If I want let's say a 390 piece in FF14 then I know I can either farm tomestones or go do Orbonne Monastery. Or buy Crafted pieces and upgrade them. No RNG involved.

Originally Posted by Onikaroshi

Wrath was the perfect state for loot.

FFXIV does loot perfectly as well IMO

Nowadays you can't AIM for anything, player agency has been completely stripped and you're left with nothing but RNG. WF and TF creates a situation where you can't reach BiS anymore, and that's what a lot of people played for.

Vanilla's crappy amount of loot may have been bad, but its still better then what we have now. I was just saying it was unrewarding compared to systems we had in the future.

BiS slot is boring though, you can still do it though if you get TF of everything but just aim for the base ones and think of the TFs as bonuses, you can definitely still target though a raid boss still has a chance to drop an item just as always lol game has always been RNG theres just a bit more now

Originally Posted by Sunaka

I'm still confused by this position. I leveled 3 characters to 60 during Vanilla, and I only started sometime after Naxx hit. (I stopped playing before beta ended, to be clear.) I didn't encounter a single person I would've wanted to continue running stuff with until I hit 60 the second time. For the most part, I did my entire 1-60 each time without much involvement at all. Not for lack of trying...just people were about as terrible as they are today...there were just more of them I had to deal with in order to find anyone. The whole "sense of community" thing is pretty subjective. I was on a high pop server and oh man, you could not convince me that the community was great back then. More intertwined, definitely. Better? Definitely a place for debate.

Shhh.... don't spoil their fantasy.

I played on Mannoroth US, we had vodka and Macabre, and just like ANY server with big, progressed, guilds on it, the server community was garbage. Just like nowadays most community was in guilds. But they'll tell you, "there's no community now!" while they don't even bother trying to find one.

The community I have now is 100x better then any community I had in vanilla, and the only reason I still long in.

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Originally Posted by bloodykiller86

BiS slot is boring though, you can still do it though if you get TF of everything but just aim for the base ones and think of the TFs as bonuses, you can definitely still target though a raid boss still has a chance to drop an item just as always lol game has always been RNG theres just a bit more now

Yes, its so much fun to kill a boss over and over and never see a piece yourself, but the one time it drops it goes to someone who doesn't want it but it's 5 ilvls higher then what they're wearing so they can't do shit about it, such a great game.

And BiS may have been boring for you, but completing characters is what a lot of people played for.

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Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

Yep. If I want let's say a 390 piece in FF14 then I know I can either farm tomestones or go do Orbonne Monastery. Or buy Crafted pieces and upgrade them. No RNG involved.

But it still leaves "the best" to savage/ultimate, though even then there is STILL player agency in the form of tome drops that can be turned in. Blizzard removed almost all player agency from wow, and the fact that they even mention it a little gives me hope that MAYBE just MAYBE they realized removing 99% of player agency was a bad idea.

Originally Posted by Onikaroshi

Just like nowadays most community was in guilds. But they'll tell you, "there's no community now!" while they don't even bother trying to find one.

The community I have now is 100x better then any community I had in vanilla, and the only reason I still long in.

Yeah, I think the primary perspective people ever had was about guilds or a group of friends they'd made, and ignored all the questionable or unpleasant things otherwise. Even private servers are much more tightly-woven communities than Vanilla ever was, so using it as an example is impossible. Barrens chat (the quintessential community example) isn't exactly notable for its welcoming atmosphere so much as all the memes, trolling, and arguments.

Originally Posted by Eleccybubb

Yep. If I want let's say a 390 piece in FF14 then I know I can either farm tomestones or go do Orbonne Monastery. Or buy Crafted pieces and upgrade them. No RNG involved.

how is that dif from wow right now???

you want anytihg that is 415 you do Mythic raid. you want 400 tiems you can do heroic or M+

you want to buy stuff you farm dust.

So how is that dif. i comfuse.

Originally Posted by Onikaroshi

Shhh.... don't spoil their fantasy.

I played on Mannoroth US, we had vodka and Macabre, and just like ANY server with big, progressed, guilds on it, the server community was garbage. Just like nowadays most community was in guilds. But they'll tell you, "there's no community now!" while they don't even bother trying to find one.

The community I have now is 100x better then any community I had in vanilla, and the only reason I still long in.

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Yes, its so much fun to kill a boss over and over and never see a piece yourself, but the one time it drops it goes to someone who doesn't want it but it's 5 ilvls higher then what they're wearing so they can't do shit about it, such a great game.

And BiS may have been boring for you, but completing characters is what a lot of people played for.

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But it still leaves "the best" to savage/ultimate, though even then there is STILL player agency in the form of tome drops that can be turned in. Blizzard removed almost all player agency from wow, and the fact that they even mention it a little gives me hope that MAYBE just MAYBE they realized removing 99% of player agency was a bad idea.

I mean outside of Savage they do unlock the same gear item level (stats might not be BiS) but only after a good amount of time has passed.