Itemization in WoW Classic
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
It’s been a lot of fun over the last couple of months to dive into the development of WoW Classic with the team, while trying to answer some of the many questions that have been posed here and elsewhere. Looking at the plans for a phased content release, unlocking dungeons and raids, and unlocking other systems, it’s clear that the aim is to create a progression experience that resembles the original arc from when WoW first launched. In thinking about what belongs in each of those phases, the team’s focus has always been on rewards.

Developers have scoured through vendor lists and treasure tables for items that were added in patches, and then attached them to the staged content unlock plan. This means that if a new item was originally added to a dungeon boss’s loot table with Ahn’Qiraj, you shouldn’t expect it to appear in WoW Classic until Phase 5, which is the phase that contains Ahn’Qiraj content.

Along the way, we’ve seen many questions asking if we’re also retracing the steps of incremental changes to individual items and their stats that may have occurred throughout original WoW. Such a plan could be called “progressive itemization.”

Here’s an example of progressive itemization. The Tier 2 warrior Helm of Wrath originally had Spirit and Agility on it, as well as critical strike chance. In Patch 1.5.0, the helm’s stat budget was changed to Stamina, Strength, and Defense, along with elemental resistances. Then in Patch 1.7.0, the amount of Defense on the helm was reduced. In Patch 1.8.0, the 5-piece set bonus that included the helm was fixed to work with Whirlwind, and in 1.9.0, it got a better look with an art update.

WoW Classic will only include that last version of the item, as it existed in our reference version: 1.12.

Of course, this raises the question “why?”. Why differentiate between adding new items along the way and making modifications to existing items?
When new items are added to loot tables, you’re generally seeing a deliberate effort to provide catch-up gear and/or to provide new goals for players who had exhausted an existing reward structure. For example, in original WoW, items were added to give players a way to quickly prepare for Ahn’Qiraj without having to spend months in Molten Core and Blackwing Lair.

The changing of existing items in patches often illustrated the original design team responding to how players played the game. Their primary goal at the time was to make rewards more relevant and exciting. Developers realizing that Spirit probably wasn’t an ideal stat for a warrior raid set helm* was an example of this sort of change.

Many class abilities and talents evolved similarly. For example, going into Patch 1.8.0, the game designers determined that Moonkin Form would be a more compelling 31-point Balance druid talent than the original selection of Hurricane.

It’s important to remember that there’s more to WoW Classic than a long series of changes. Even if each item change could be made, and even if every class change could be progressively recreated, that would still only constitute a piece of the overall landscape of original WoW. We remember how early raid progression was punctuated by unexpected roadblocks and workarounds:

  • As far as we know, every one of the first Ragnaros kills was only possible due to a bug that made Lava Burst temporarily stop firing after a wipe.
  • Chromaggus was practically unbeatable due to Ignite Flesh unavoidably and lethally stacking on tanks, until it was discovered that Flamegor’s ramp in the laboratory allowed the entire raid to damage Chromaggus without being exposed to his breath attacks.
  • C’Thun was infamously seen as unkillable until a hotfix in April 2006 prevented additional tentacles from spawning while he was vulnerable.

Recreating, and then re-fixing every major progression-affecting bug wouldn’t account for what we think matters much more: the people playing the game. There were many unknowns in original WoW. The first guilds to reach Nefarian spent their initial pulls testing different ideas they had and trying to figure out what condition would get them past the first part of the fight (defeating 40 drakonids). That experience can’t be recreated, because the knowledge can’t be unlearned. For a long time after Patch 1.4.0 came out, many players simply had no idea how good Obsidian Edged Blade or Aged Core Leather Gloves were. The power of weapon skill will be no surprise in WoW Classic.

So rather than try to recreate a specific experience from 2005 that can never fully be recaptured, our aim has been to accurately and fully restore the original game’s mechanics and stats to their final and most polished state from before The Burning Crusade. That mission has been a pillar of WoW Classic’s design from its inception.

This means that while content will be unlocked progressively to allow for each raid tier to shine, systems such as class design, battleground mechanics, and stats on existing items will all be set to their final 1.12 conditions. That should take the pressure off players to be constantly figuring out what we might do next to remain exactly in line with how the game once played out, and we can all focus a little more on community building and enjoying the experience together.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Itemization in WoW Classic started by chaud View original post
Comments 142 Comments
  1. Nevcairiel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    It was allllll going to be super easy regardless, there's also the fact that it's on the new API, which means all the new addons like Weakauras and DBM far beyond what vanilla ever had in functionality will be available, THAT will make it even more trivial then gear.
    If anything addons could do much more in vanilla then they can do now. Over the years the possibilities of addons were only reduced, not increased.

    The addon community just had to grow and come up with ideas, and have time to implement them. This was not vanilla limiting it artificially, just a factor of time. As such, the "API" has no impact on this - on the contrary even, by blocking addons like Decursive which were possible in Vanilla.
  1. Boricha's Avatar
    I'm fine with this. My only complaint with Classic so far is that I'd rather have the original AV than 1.12, but it's not deal breaking or anything.
  1. Onikaroshi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If anything addons could do much more in vanilla then they can do now. Over the years the possibilities of addons were only reduced, not increased.

    The addon community just had to grow and come up with ideas, and have time to implement them. This was not vanilla limiting it artificially, just a factor of time. As such, the "API" has no impact on this - on the contrary even, by blocking addons like Decursive which were possible in Vanilla.
    Decursive is brought up a lot, but in reality it isn't that much worse today then it was back in the day. The only one that truly got worse was Healbot auto picking ranks for you, but it can still SUGGEST ranks, so it's not even going to be that big of a deal.

    Proper threat meters? Weakauras? Much more in depth boss mods? all of that will make the game much easier then it was on top of the biggest nerf to vanilla in existence... Our combined knowledge. We already know everything about it.
  1. DTJames's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    It was allllll going to be super easy regardless, there's also the fact that it's on the new API, which means all the new addons like Weakauras and DBM far beyond what vanilla ever had in functionality will be available, THAT will make it even more trivial then gear.
    Not to forget that everyone already know inside and out of each bosses's abilities as well. Plus load of guides exist on the internet.
  1. Onikaroshi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by DTJames View Post
    Not to forget that everyone already know inside and out of each bosses's abilities as well. Plus load of guides exist on the internet.
    Yup, we had guides, but they weren't 1080p step by step this is how you do it.
  1. Gurbz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Erous View Post
    Now, queue planning for everything. Not like it's not already happening, but BiS lists, farming routes, boss strats, etc. ALL of that pre-planning BS will simply ruin what original WoW was all about in my opinion. Original WoW was all about figuring it all out. Even though I'm still going to play it like the old days, the feeling of the unknown is still going to be missing unfortunately.
    This is why I think a lot of people are ultimately going to be disappointed by Classic. That feeling of unknown can't ever be recreated, and it is going to change much of the experience that people remember.
  1. potis's Avatar
    Interesting to see the complains.

    Said it before, this is not going to be like Vanilla, they do not have everything they require, and neither they would ever tryhard to make it feel like Vanilla.

    Its literally a "We are listening to the players, we arent EA!" combined with "We are gonna waste a couple of million dollars to make much more just from the marketing and "good grades with players" without even launching the game yet".

    Its gonna be just a server that wont go offline because a GM crushed his car and stole the money that was meant for server hosting, with a ton more bug fixing since its not basement developer but a proper small team in an actual company.

    So you will know your character will be there if you dont check the forums for a week if the private server is offline or not.
  1. tikcol's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by THCRaven View Post
    But the blade is from MC not pre-raid.
    I chose the blade for one simple reason,

    The blade originally had something like 7stam, 5 int and 1% crit

    The pre raid bis weapon on the same patch had 1% crit

    I didn't say gear from mc is inferior to pre-raid bis gear, i meant that mc gear from a progressive itemization server is inferior to non-progressive pre-raid bis gear
  1. zetitup's Avatar
    "Private servers could do it, why can't blizz"... however it has been stated TONS of times, even from private servers themselves, the values of stuff are mostly guessed and not equal to what we had in vanilla, so some stuff might hit harder in classic and some might hit softer. So don't expect the game to be as easy as on private servers.
  1. tikcol's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by zetitup View Post
    "Private servers could do it, why can't blizz"... however it has been stated TONS of times, even from private servers themselves, the values of stuff are mostly guessed and not equal to what we had in vanilla, so some stuff might hit harder in classic and some might hit softer. So don't expect the game to be as easy as on private servers.
    How does private servers getting values wrong justify blizzard not implementing progressive itemization exactly? hmm?
  1. Onikaroshi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    How does private servers getting values wrong justify blizzard not implementing progressive itemization exactly? hmm?
    I honestly would rather not have a period of "warrior only helm with spirit" thank you.
  1. JuanFiles's Avatar
    Oh my, can't wait to see Tips Out making a video crying all over this! Hahahaha!

    I like this decision. Is stupid to introduce the old bad gear just to fool people that dosen't know about the changes. Only people that would get benefited from that would be those that do know of the changes, so they can probably get the items easily as people pass on gear that looks undesirable... then they'd save them in the bank till blizzard introduced the changes... Nothing but special snowflake greed and maliciousness. So with this decision, they ensure the game field will be fair and square!

    Good Job Blizzard!
  1. Nevcairiel's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Proper threat meters? Weakauras? Much more in depth boss mods? all of that will make the game much easier then it was on top of the biggest nerf to vanilla in existence... Our combined knowledge. We already know everything about it.
    Sure it might. But all I'm saying is that these things were not impossible back then, just noone made them yet. Its really quite the same as "knowledge", since a bossmod for example is just a repository of bossfight knowledge.
  1. Onikaroshi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    Sure it might. But all I'm saying is that these things were not impossible back then, just noone made them yet. Its really quite the same as "knowledge", since a bossmod for example is just a repository of bossfight knowledge.
    Actually, pretty sure threat meters couldn't actually pull properly back then because Blizzard didn't add threat to the API until later.
  1. Understarmor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Merie View Post
    Only one server? I figured there would be a PvE and one PvP.
    lets be real, there will be more than one server...come on now
  1. Chemii's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I honestly would rather not have a period of "warrior only helm with spirit" thank you.
    They justified it the fucking blue post. Read it.
  1. Onikaroshi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Chemii View Post
    They justified it the fucking blue post. Read it.
    And I'm saying I agree with them.
  1. MrPaladinGuy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    This is why I think a lot of people are ultimately going to be disappointed by Classic. That feeling of unknown can't ever be recreated, and it is going to change much of the experience that people remember.
    Exactly, everything's known and there's no sense of discovery. The people you meet will be there for different reasons. That's just a small percentage of why it won't be the same. I'm not complaining and what they're doing makes sense, but I'm going to be that guy- It's not going to be a Classic experience.
  1. tylenol's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Understarmor View Post
    lets be real, there will be more than one server...come on now
    Yeah, probably 2, pve and pvp which will be ghost towns after whatever "hype" there is wears out, people who thought it was going to be a 1:1 copy are already disappointed by this news
  1. Kryos's Avatar
    Classic without classic bugs and mechanics isn't classic.

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