WoW Classic - Hotfix for Demoralizing Shout/Roar Threat
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker)
We have identified a fix for an issue that was causing Demoralizing Shout/Roar to generate too much threat when applied to multiple enemies. In addition, we’ve also identified a fix for a separate issue that was causing Battle Shout and most healing spells, effects, and buffs to incorrectly split the threat they generate between enemies that had members of the buffed party on their threat list.

Hotfixes for these issues are going to be deployed very soon, at which time all of these effects will match their functionality in the 1.12 reference client.
This article was originally published in forum thread: WoW Classic - Hotfix for Demoralizing Shout/Roar Threat started by Stoy View original post
Comments 84 Comments
  1. Tech614's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuji V2 View Post
    Sure mate.
    Sarcastic reply, but please tell me how prot paladins are worth a shit without a taunt and without ways to regen mana in combat. They are irrelevant. They can tank 5 mans but at that point you might as well just heal because it's a waste of gold on the re-spec because it's worthless in raids.

    BC fixed prot paladin tanking and made them viable, anyone trying to use them in classic gets 4 face palms out of 5. They are not used for AoE raid tanking like they where in BC, let's cut the BS about it being their niche lmao.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    If it was not intended why have tanks in the first place then?
    Oh my deer sweet child, I'm going to guess you are one of the players on live that don't understand why skittish exists either right?
  1. Clozer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Sarcastic reply, but please tell me how prot paladins are worth a shit without a taunt and without ways to regen mana in combat. They are irrelevant. They can tank 5 mans but at that point you might as well just heal because it's a waste of gold on the re-spec because it's worthless in raids.

    BC fixed prot paladin tanking and made them viable, anyone trying to use them in classic gets 4 face palms out of 5. They are not used for AoE raid tanking like they where in BC, let's cut the BS about it being their niche lmao.

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    Oh my deer sweet child, I'm going to guess you are one of the players on live that don't understand why skittish exists either right?
    What has skittish to do with all this? 100% random agro loss vs not enough threat for tanks? You may enlighten me.
  1. Tech614's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    100% random agro loss
    Digging that hole even further. This isn't what skittish is. Skittish reduces the threat the tanks do by a flat amount, making it slightly more relevant and adding something to pay attention to.

    This is how most MMOs where outside of the Cata->Legion hey day of threat being free simply by attacking a mob. Threat is not supposed to be free in Classic. Do you understand now? Or do you think "random aggro drops" are a thing lmao.

    There is a reason every raiding guild required a threat meter add on for the early life of WoW until like Cata.
  1. Nefarious Tea's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Milfshaked View Post
    This doesnt change boss threat though.
    My point was that because even most of the bosses in Naxx had perhaps two abilities DPS needed to watch out for, that not pulling aggro was the number one problem/issue for DPS.
  1. Shuji V2's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Sarcastic reply, but please tell me how prot paladins are worth a shit without a taunt and without ways to regen mana in combat. They are irrelevant. They can tank 5 mans but at that point you might as well just heal because it's a waste of gold on the re-spec because it's worthless in raids.

    BC fixed prot paladin tanking and made them viable, anyone trying to use them in classic gets 4 face palms out of 5. They are not used for AoE raid tanking like they where in BC, let's cut the BS about it being their niche lmao.

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    Oh my deer sweet child, I'm going to guess you are one of the players on live that don't understand why skittish exists either right?
    First of all, seal of wisdom, mp5 gear/buff, mana potions, clever use of spell ranks etc. Second of all, I never talked about raids or raids bosses specifically here. I was talking about dungeons primarily (even though I never stated that). I know not having a taunt or any kind of distance closer is a real issue which makes them unsuitable to tank most raid bosses. However, there are still quite some bosses where they serve a purpose. Tanking adds or just raid trash for example.

    I totally understand the shortcomings of the class and I am fine with that and no where did I state otherwise. So yes, you totally deserved that sarcastic reply for assuming whatever.
  1. Clozer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Digging that hole even further. This isn't what skittish is. Skittish reduces the threat the tanks do by a flat amount, making it slightly more relevant and adding something to pay attention to.

    This is how most MMOs where outside of the Cata->Legion hey day of threat being free simply by attacking a mob. Threat is not supposed to be free in Classic. Do you understand now? Or do you think "random aggro drops" are a thing lmao.

    There is a reason every raiding guild required a threat meter add on for the early life of WoW until like Cata.
    Threat is meaningless vs i cant possibly generate enough threat are again 2 completly different things. No one asks for one thunder clap beeing enough threat for the whole mob, but working as hard as possible and doing everything a tank can and still not beeing able to hold agro is stupid and was surely not intended.
  1. Tech614's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuji V2 View Post
    I totally understand the shortcomings of the class and I am fine with that and no where did I state otherwise. So yes, you totally deserved that sarcastic reply for assuming whatever.
    You claimed Prot Wars where taking Prot Paladins place.

    Prot Paladins would have to have a place for it to be taken. Flat out. That's not even being sarcastic, that's the cold hard truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    but working as hard as possible and doing everything a tank can and still not beeing able to hold agro is stupid and was surely not intended.
    Except it is. You know why the MT gets all the best gear first in Classic? Because your DPS is limited by the amount of threat the MT can do. You are not meant to hold aggro against a dps of similar gear level going balls to the wall, you're playing the wrong game in classic if you expect it to be that way.
  1. glowpipe's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickedtongue View Post
    #nochanges
    It looks like they are adjusting numbers and then pretending they "fixed a bug".
    players have a complete different mindset now. these "bugs" aren't bugs, players are just better at the game now and this was simply not utilized in vanilla. change my mind
  1. Clozer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Except it is. You know why the MT gets all the best gear first in Classic? Because your DPS is limited by the amount of threat the MT can do. You are not meant to hold aggro against a dps of similar gear level going balls to the wall, you're playing the wrong game in classic if you expect it to be that way.
    What was the intention behind this? If it was intended you surely must have good reasons why tanks cant generate enough threat to actually tank. Interested to know what the devs thought about tanking back then.
  1. Tech614's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    What was the intention behind this? If it was intended you surely must have good reasons why tanks cant generate enough threat to actually tank. Interested to know what the devs thought about tanking back then.
    Except they can generate enough threat to actually tank. Threat in MMOs outside of the post WoW cata era has always been a group responsibility, not a tank only responsibility.
  1. RoKPaNda's Avatar
    Good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    You claimed Prot Wars where taking Prot Paladins place.

    Prot Paladins would have to have a place for it to be taken. Flat out. That's not even being sarcastic, that's the cold hard truth.

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    Except it is. You know why the MT gets all the best gear first in Classic? Because your DPS is limited by the amount of threat the MT can do. You are not meant to hold aggro against a dps of similar gear level going balls to the wall, you're playing the wrong game in classic if you expect it to be that way.
    I agree on the prot paladin thing. Trying to tank something on a prot paladin was an effort in futility. This idea that they were viable tanks came later and thanks to pservers. Saying one was a prot paladin main in Vanilla is about the same as saying they were a melee hunter. ;/

    On the other thing, the MT got the gear first to survive the hits, not because of threat. Classic difficulty increase philosophy was "make the tank get hit harder." so it made sense to funnel gear at that point.
  1. Tech614's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    On the other thing, the MT got the gear first to survive the hits, not because of threat. Classic difficulty increase philosophy was "make the tank get hit harder." so it made sense to funnel gear at that point.
    Uhh, most of the gear you give the MT has nothing to do with survival and has everything to do with increasing their DPS, aka TPS. You think you give the MT the first thunderfury to "survive hits"? lol. You think horde groups put a windfury totem in the MT group to "survive hits"? lol. Surviving boss hits is hardly an issue, and bosses in current retail are far more dangerous to tanks then they ever where in classic. Nobody gives MTs gear first in retail, because it doesn't increase raid DPS the most- like it did in vanilla/classic.
  1. Clozer's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Except they can generate enough threat to actually tank. Threat in MMOs outside of the post WoW cata era has always been a group responsibility, not a tank only responsibility.
    Oh, you mean if dps go afk - then yes a tank can surely generate enough threat, but else? Nope.
  1. RoKPaNda's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Uhh, most of the gear you give the MT has nothing to do with survival and has everything to do with increasing their DPS, aka TPS. You think you give the MT the first thunderfury to "survive hits"? lol. You think horde groups put a windfury totem in the MT group to "survive hits"? lol. Surviving boss hits is hardly an issue, and bosses in current retail are far more dangerous to tanks then they ever where in classic. Nobody gives MTs gear first in retail, because it doesn't increase raid DPS the most- like it did in vanilla/classic.
    Yeah it's sad because you're so right on the paladin issue and you're so wrong on this one. Thunderfury is the one exception where you're going to significantly increase threat output with a singular gear upgrade. The design philosophy right up until somewhere in Wrath was that to make encounters harder they had to hit harder. There's a great interview about that somewhere in the archives of the internet. Obviously modern encounters are harder, there's a better design philosophy for raiding now, but back in the days of Vanilla-Wrath where encounters were mechanically simple a lot of the difficulty came from the mobs hitting harder. Funneling the gear to the tanks had everything to do with survival.

    The damage increase from one tier to the next for tank gear is quite small. The damage output on mobs is quite high. It's all about making the tanks survive. Tank gear aside from the random piece here and there with hit didn't start having great threat stats until Naxx. The funnel gear to your tanks strategy started long before that, and died right after they swapped to a better design philosophy than "LOL MOB HIT HARDER."
  1. Tech614's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Yeah it's sad because you're so right on the paladin issue and you're so wrong on this one. Thunderfury is the one exception where you're going to significantly increase threat output with a singular gear upgrade. The design philosophy right up until somewhere in Wrath was that to make encounters harder they had to hit harder. There's a great interview about that somewhere in the archives of the internet. Obviously modern encounters are harder, there's a better design philosophy for raiding now, but back in the days of Vanilla-Wrath where encounters were mechanically simple a lot of the difficulty came from the mobs hitting harder. Funneling the gear to the tanks had everything to do with survival.

    The damage increase from one tier to the next for tank gear is quite small. The damage output on mobs is quite high. It's all about making the tanks survive. Tank gear aside from the random piece here and there with hit didn't start having great threat stats until Naxx. The funnel gear to your tanks strategy started long before that, and died right after they swapped to a better design philosophy than "LOL MOB HIT HARDER."
    One thing is clear- you probably played vanilla, probably even thought you where right because there where plenty of bad players that even went with the "give tank gear so they can survive" statement hell, some lower end guilds still do that. But it's completely false, there is a reason funneling gear to the MT died at the exact same time threat died as a mechanic in the game. At least among top guilds.

    A tank didn't need all the gear to survive a hit from a boss in vanilla, being as geared as the average raid member is more then enough. They needed that gear to hold threat and increase total raid DPS as a result.
  1. RoKPaNda's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    One thing is clear- you probably played vanilla, probably even thought you where right because there where plenty of bad players that even went with the "give tank gear so they can survive" statement hell, some lower end guilds still do that. But it's completely false, there is a reason funneling gear to the MT died at the exact same time threat died as a mechanic in the game. At least among top guilds.

    A tank didn't need all the gear to survive a hit from a boss in vanilla, being as geared as the average raid member is more then enough. They needed that gear to hold threat and increase total raid DPS as a result.
    You're wrong. Go look at Vanilla WoW raid gear. Gear funneling to tanks existed since the start, but tank gear didn't start getting threat stats until Naxx. Gear funneling to tanks died off long after threat being an issue did btw. Why do you think things like Styleen's were so valued instead of more offensive options? I don't think I'm right, I know I'm right. The DPS increase for a tank between tiers was minimal, the damage reduction was massive. Nobody in Vanilla funneled gear to their tanks because it increased threat (aside from TF)
  1. Drusin's Avatar
    #theCollapseOfNoChanges
  1. horbindr's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    What was the intention behind this? If it was intended you surely must have good reasons why tanks cant generate enough threat to actually tank. Interested to know what the devs thought about tanking back then.
    getting threat was the core tank gameplay before they changed it to focus much more on the staying alive part. the reason they changed is cause while threat was a fun mechanic for the tank, it wasn't for the dps.
  1. dayne87's Avatar
    I was watching the streamer Asmongold the other day and he was using Demo Shout to be an "aggro god." Like literally just spammed demo shout in raids/dungeons and could not lose aggro in almost every circumstance. Something felt off about that, and now I know why - it was a bug.

    I'm not saying him or anyone else who used it to generate big threat was cheating or anything - they may have legitimately thought Demo Shout was correctly generating that much threat. Heck, private servers may have had that level of threat, so it might have felt normal for those coming from private servers (not Asmongold).
  1. Segus1992's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    One thing is clear- you probably played vanilla, probably even thought you where right because there where plenty of bad players that even went with the "give tank gear so they can survive" statement hell, some lower end guilds still do that. But it's completely false, there is a reason funneling gear to the MT died at the exact same time threat died as a mechanic in the game. At least among top guilds.

    A tank didn't need all the gear to survive a hit from a boss in vanilla, being as geared as the average raid member is more then enough. They needed that gear to hold threat and increase total raid DPS as a result.
    Wrong. There's a reason tanks have separate threat gear and survival gear - to optimize for your current setup. You also don't give your tank Lionheart Helm first, despite it being the best helmet for threat. Why? Survival. Many T2 pieces are worse for threat than T1 pieces - do tanks pass on those? Of course not. Why? Survival.

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