Pet Battles in Visions of N'Zoth
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Hello pet battlers!

We’ve seen some discussion around pet battle changes coming in Visions of N’Zoth, and we’d like to discuss those, as well as changes we currently have planned for a future content update.

The Weather Outside is Fight-ful
Weather effects have always been intended to slightly change the rules of pet battles. Sandstorm is great against pets that do weaker attacks, Sunlight is great for healing abilities, and Cleansing Rain is great for aquatic abilities. However, Mudslide and Blizzard both fell by the wayside in terms of being impactful or rule-changing outcomes. So in Visions of N’Zoth, both of these weather effects are being updated with new added effects in addition to their existing effects:

  • Blizzard
    • Now also increases all elemental ability damage by 25%.
  • Mudslide
    • Now also increases all critical damage dealt by 25%.

To be really clear about the Mudslide change: Critical strikes usually hit for 150% of normal damage. Mudslide will now increase that to 175% of normal damage.

We’ve also been thinking for a while that we should add a new weather type to the game, so Visions of N’Zoth will also introduce a new weather type: Toxic Fumes. This deals Dragonkin damage to the current enemy pet and applies the Toxic Fumes weather effect.

  • Toxic Fumes
    • Increases the duration of all hostile damage over time effects by 1 round.
    • All pets are considered Poisoned while Toxic Fumes is active.

Max No More
In Visions of N’Zoth, all of the new outdoor pet battle World Quests in Uldum and Vale of Eternal Blossoms will scale their level to match the highest level pet currently slotted on your team, instead of always being a level 25 enemy pet. This will also be the case for Nazjatar and Mechagon – all of the pet battle World Quests there are being updated. You can check them all out with a team of three level 1 pets!

Stat Changes
In Visions of N’Zoth, we’re also changing how percent-damage reduction abilities stack with each other. Currently, if you’re fighting a pet like Unit 17 in Mechagon (a Boss pet that passively takes 50% less damage), and Unit 17 uses Crouch, Unit 17 becomes immune to damage because the two 50% damage reduction effects are added to each other. In Visions of N’Zoth, the plan is to cap damage reduction at -75%. Using Unit 17 as an example, while Crouch is active, it will take 75% reduced damage instead of 100% reduced damage. This will smooth out the challenge with some enemy bosses.

Please note that abilities like Dodge or Deflection will continue to avoid all damage. Those will not be impacted by this change.

What the Future Holds
In a future update, we’re targeting a number of balance changes we want to make, which will amount to lowering the effectiveness of some pets and strategies. Again, these changes will not be happening in Visions of N’Zoth, but we wanted to give you ample warning time that changes are coming. While we don’t have specific numbers or details to share right now, here are some examples of abilities that we’re going to take a close look at:

  • Black Claw and similar abilities that increase damage taken by a flat amount.
  • Hunting Party and similar abilities such as Flock.
  • The Shattered Defenses debuff effect from abilities such as Hunting Party or Flock.
  • Any large percent-damage-taken or percent-damage-dealt buffs or debuffs.
  • Twilight Meteorite and similar long-cooldown damage-splitting abilities.
  • The Jar of Smelly Liquid ability.
  • Hermit Crab

Of course that last one isn’t an ability, but Hermit Crab incorrectly has a higher stat budget than it should, and it will have its stats reduced to bring it in line with other similar pets.

A goal we have when making many new pet battle World Quests or encounters is to create puzzles that players can counter and “solve”-- ideally with the option to use a variety of pets and tools to do so. When a few pets have such strong synergies that they can deal massive damage in just a few rounds and almost trivially beat these enemies, it becomes problematic. Do we make new challenges only beatable by the highest damage combos, or do we make them generally solveable and therefore immediately smashed by massive damage?

We don’t want to ruin the feel of combination abilities, so we aren’t going to make Black Claw no longer interact with Hunting Party or Flock, but we want to make sure these abilities are dealing appropriate damage. And we want to make sure that secondary effects such as Shattered Defenses are being accounted for with regards to balance.

When we have further specifics, we will be sure to let you know.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Pet Battles in Visions of N'Zoth started by chaud View original post
Comments 59 Comments
  1. Weeps's Avatar
    They nerf something, another becomes OP.

    Remember the howl bomb combo? It went from that to black claw + hunting party
  1. Dervrak's Avatar
    A goal we have when making many new pet battle World Quests or encounters is to create puzzles that players can....go to wowhead or a similar site and with a couple clicks find out which pets to use for a guaranteed win. (there fixed it.)

    But seriously the Ikky nerf is going to hurt, but I figured it was coming you could pretty much role through very pet battle in BfA with the Ikky-Molten Corgi combo.
  1. Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by ErrandRunner View Post
    It's kind of sad Blizzard puts this much effort into Pet Battles when most players don't play them. Just think of what else you would be getting if they didn't waste resources on such fluff.
    If you think they pour this much effort and resources into a feature that ain't being used, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

    You not having an interest in something =/= Nobody does. Shocker.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    Wasn't there a post a few years ago where they had more pet battles done than dungeons and BGs combined?
    Pretty sure, yes.

    Pet Battles are here to stay, time the perpetually unhappy crowd got over it.
  1. Tarx's Avatar
    I like I can do world quest pet battles with lvl 1 pets. That's must be implied to all pet battles
  1. DTJames's Avatar
    Oh no

    Gonna have to farm and clear Stratholme for pets before this roll out.

    Thank god I got my Celestial pets earlier.
  1. Nelaphim-EX's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Blizzard is going in the wrong direction with pet battles imo. I get that they want to amp up the difficulty of pet battles as the years go by to keep people engaged and challenged, but I am one of those people who has hundreds of max level pets and who enjoys pet battles, and BfA is the first expansion where I am just straight up ignoring pet battles.

    World quest pet battles should be somewhat challenging, but in BfA and from the looks of it going forward they are just going to be tedious. If I put together a team of decent pets with counter abilities and natures, I should be able to do a random pet battle world quest without too much wiping. By amping up the "difficulty" and requiring very hard counters to world quests that I really don't care much for in the first place, you don't make it more challenging or fun, you just make it more tedious.

    If they want to improve the pet battling experience they should start by cleaning up their god fucking awful UI. At the very least give us one more layer of filters other than "favorite" to organize our hundreds of pets.
    I am mostly in the same boat. I dislike how so many of the WQs have one or two combinations that will work and nothing else is even remotely viable due to Legendary scaling.
  1. Alayea's Avatar
    This announcement is a very mixed bag for me. The mudslide weather effect has definitely been needing improvement, but I don't like the all-but-guaranteed nerfing of Black Claw & Hunting Party-style effects. If the latter is a problem, it is only because Blizzard created the circumstances which necessitated having those abilities.

    A much more holistic approach to PvE pet encounters is needed, not just nerfing "problematic" effects without addressing the underlying causes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nehem View Post
    Will int increase our MP in shadowlands or nope?
    Wrong thread to post in, but I'll answer anyway: It's "no".
  1. Powerogue's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Weeps View Post
    They nerf something, another becomes OP.

    Remember the howl bomb combo? It went from that to black claw + hunting party
    I still miss my Triple Turkey Triad of Terror, infinite food coma.

    It wasn't THAT overpowered!

    It just let me kill everything that wasn't immune to sleep effects and was slower attack speed than a turkey.
  1. Mixxy's Avatar
    Nerfing the Black Claw + Hunting Party combo will probably be fine... as long as Blizzard remembers to also nerf the battles that made it a requirement in the first place.

    The BFA design for pet battles as a whole has been kind of garbage, actually. Every world quest has like, two or three hyper-specific combinations of rare pets and exact ability usage that can beat them, and everything else is all but a guaranteed loss.

    Pet battling has been less of a battle and more of a "do you have the exact right pets?" check for the past year and a bit. I'd like to see that change; see more teams and strategies be viable for PvE battles.
  1. crakerjack's Avatar
    I'd rather they weren't involved in WQ's/Weekly events in the first place. It's one thing to have it in game and available for those that enjoy it, but that doesn't justify why it's involved in end game content.
  1. InfernalDark's Avatar
    Pet battles suck ass
  1. Loveliest's Avatar
    I really don't want more challenge to pet battles. I have to save my pet teams and write the steps as is - can't we just have some things easy? Must everything be as time consuming as possible? If I'll have to do a fight in 30 turns, I'll just skip it. I get bored when it takes long - the challenge is there only for the very first time, after that it's just boring.

    Now I have to redo my saved teams all over again. Eff it... they should do changes like this in a new expansion because I wouldn't go back to the old pets. To redo them for current pets... that sucks.
  1. sthdev's Avatar
    That's exactly why they should actually get rid of pet levels, it only adds to the grind that doesn't make any sense. Also, get your achievments FAST, I doubt it will be any easier after they nerf Black Claw&Hunting Party combo, half the easy pet battles tactics rely on this combo (and also Unborn Val'kyr).
  1. calathiel-'s Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Blizzard is going in the wrong direction with pet battles imo. I get that they want to amp up the difficulty of pet battles as the years go by to keep people engaged and challenged, but I am one of those people who has hundreds of max level pets and who enjoys pet battles, and BfA is the first expansion where I am just straight up ignoring pet battles.

    World quest pet battles should be somewhat challenging, but in BfA and from the looks of it going forward they are just going to be tedious. If I put together a team of decent pets with counter abilities and natures, I should be able to do a random pet battle world quest without too much wiping. By amping up the "difficulty" and requiring very hard counters to world quests that I really don't care much for in the first place, you don't make it more challenging or fun, you just make it more tedious.

    If they want to improve the pet battling experience they should start by cleaning up their god fucking awful UI. At the very least give us one more layer of filters other than "favorite" to organize our hundreds of pets.

    SERIOUSLY, This!

    Aside from the fact that it is BEYOND my comprehension as to why Pet Battles are still not available for mobile. I mean they have an app, and app they completely redesigned for BfA and nothing. NO ONE does or cares about mission tables this expansion, the mobile app is collecting dust when it could house mobile pet battles.

    Shame...
  1. Granyala's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lyphe View Post
    Glad to see this.

    I used to enjoy pet battles as a side thing for a change of pace now and then, but those abilities let me faceroll pretty much any fight ... making pet battles pretty much boring as hell. I like the changes and I hope they have some big plans for Shadowlands ... pet battles are kinda cool if there is challenge and change.
    You know... you could always ... not use the OP combos if you want to challenge yourself.
    I don't even know what Ikky looks like and facerolled the pet battle world quests in Nazjatar. Never used black claw either, lol.
  1. Aeula's Avatar
    Need to get all the pet battle stuff I haven’t done finished by Shadowlands then.

    Nerfing flock/black claw will greatly reduce my will to bother with pet battles since I’ll just about have to level 3 different pets for every fight.
  1. Gadzooks's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by calathiel- View Post
    SERIOUSLY, This!

    Aside from the fact that it is BEYOND my comprehension as to why Pet Battles are still not available for mobile. I mean they have an app, and app they completely redesigned for BfA and nothing. NO ONE does or cares about mission tables this expansion, the mobile app is collecting dust when it could house mobile pet battles.

    Shame...
    I don't think they can claim people doing pet battle stuff on their phones will count towards MAUs, so they'll require you to log into the game, most likely. That's the only reason why I can see them not breaking at least part of the pet battle system off onto mobile. Everything is to drive MAUs now.
  1. Chonar's Avatar
    NuuooooOOooo! MY HERMIT CRAB! D:
  1. Loveliest's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by lyphe View Post
    Those abilities are OP. Players know it and Blizz obviously knows it too.
    Yeah but what's wrong with that? It's just pet battles. In THEORY pet battles shouldn't bring any advantage to pve or pvp. It should just be something for vanity.

    I don't know, I sit and wonder, who are these people who play an MMO side-game for a challenge... what kind of people are in search of absolute pet balance for their 1.5k pets...
    So what if some combo is OP? Most people will just load up the Xu-fu pet site and try what pet combo is written there and rated the highest.

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