WoW Classic and Honor system - A Message from the Dev Team
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Message from Pazorax:

" I know the honor system can be frustrating, and even more so if it feels like you’re not getting credit for your efforts, so I wanted to post and let you know we are looking at people’s honor for the week, and so far all the checks we’ve done indicate that honor was calculated correctly this week .
As we mentioned before, our data repair job on Monday caused the “This week” totals to display an inflated value for the rest of the day, and that appears to explain a lot of the confusion we’ve seen so far.

We also know that some players confuse “estimated honor” with actual honor (estimates don’t account for diminishing returns), or confuse honor with rank (honor is earned from kills, rank is based on your relative standing within your faction). The honor system is slow to progress you through the ranks, even in the best case, so many of these reports aren’t a case of the honor going “missing” as much as they’re a case of an unforgiving system giving you less progress toward a rank than you were expecting.

In addition to being based on your relative standing within your faction, your progress to the next rank also slows down as you reach higher ranks. Achieving the same standing each week won’t award the same amount of progress toward each rank, it awards a fixed percentage of the delta between your current rank, and your current standing. It is actually impossible to achieve rank 14 in less than 12 weeks, and that assumes that you’re the top player on your faction for every one of those 12 weeks.

Those are all intentional behaviors, and are not bugs, but they can all contribute to a feeling of difficulty progressing through the ranks.

We also see reports of missing kills when you’re playing during the daily reset job, and we’ve checked that too. In fact, I just checked right now, on some of the people who reported errors in this thread, and last night’s job did calculate their honor correctly. Those kills are still there, its just a display issue, and they’ll show up on the next day’s daily report now that the underlying issue is fixed.

We are continuing to investigate, but at this time we don’t see any problems in the week 3 data. Once we conclude this investigation we can move on to investigating the problems that occurred during week 1 and 2, and we’re beginning to do that now.

Thank you again for your patience as we work through these issues."
This article was originally published in forum thread: WoW Classic and Honor system - A Message from the Dev Team started by chaud View original post
Comments 63 Comments
  1. IdiocracyIsReal's Avatar
    12 weeks to reach rank 14 and that requires being first on realm every week. Sounds about right. I expect many cries from "ranking players". Maybe now players will realise that their honour farming is pointless and situation on PvP servers normalises.

    Classic is mostly awesome, but honour system is not one of good things.
  1. epLe's Avatar
    Nothing wrong with the system, just the players trying to manage brackets.
  1. Coldkil's Avatar
    Only thing i read from this is what people actually believed the honor system in Classic was. It was literally an extreme grind where the people who played the most climbed up. I suppose players expected something different because they never experienced it in first place or their memories were severely flawed.
  1. babyback's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Only thing i read from this is what people actually believed the honor system in Classic was. It was literally an extreme grind where the people who played the most climbed up. I suppose players expected something different because they never experienced it in first place or their memories were severely flawed.
    I expect the grind being even steeper in Classic than in Vanilla. Servers are way bigger now so there are a lot more competing for high ranks than before. If I recall correctly ranks were limited back then and I assume the same system is applied in Classic.

    So if you want those high rinks expect to be putting in some serious hours into PvP.
  1. Coldkil's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    I expect the grind being even steeper in Classic than in Vanilla. Servers are way bigger now so there are a lot more competing for high ranks than before. If I recall correctly ranks were limited back then and I assume the same system is applied in Classic.

    So if you want those high rinks expect to be putting in some serious hours into PvP.
    Yeah, i didn't even counted for that. Given how ladder is reset weekly and how much honor you grind is meaningless if everyone else grinds the double as you, many people is gonna have a bad time or just drop the idea completely.

    Also, IIRC, in Vanilla there were entire raid teams dedicated to extreme grind and even locking lower ranks to make harder for other people to climb. But then it may be me at fault on this.
  1. durenas's Avatar
    The top rank 14 warrior on my server in vanilla was a dude that literally shared his account so he could pvp 24/7.
  1. Ange's Avatar
    Players in vanilla figured it out pretty fast how cruel and long the honor grind is and everyone even remotly interested in pvp could read it up and decide for themselfs if its worth the 16h/day for 3 months without any guarantee to ever reach R13/14, since teams or bonus holidays with individuals playing 24h/7 could just destroy your only hope in the end.

    That this issue is so hot for classic shows just how many of the players are on the extreme end of casual/ignorant to the bone.
  1. heartless8604's Avatar
    I find it funny that they repeatedly are talking about honor calculations and such, but refuse to talk about server faction balance. Which will all make BG's worse.

    I understand their attempts at phased release but I think they just did Classic poorly. As much as it didn't follow release, WSG at the very slightest should have been released with the honor patch.
  1. Erwarth's Avatar
    It's all part of the original Vanilla experience. Even the imbalance.
  1. Lucetia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    12 weeks to reach rank 14 and that requires being first on realm every week. Sounds about right. I expect many cries from "ranking players". Maybe now players will realise that their honour farming is pointless and situation on PvP servers normalises.

    Classic is mostly awesome, but honour system is not one of good things.
    How it makes me laugh at all the people who think ranking up in Classic was an easy thing. Even to do this date they think it was something easy. I don't remember the exact rank I ended up at (I'd have to look at my achievements), but I believe it was around Rank 7 - 8 and even that was a pain because I remember having to farm way more than usual and just finally giving up realizing I'd never hit Rank 14.

    I found this table below of the values roughly needed in Classic in order to hit each rank alone (and this was HK's alone). Look at those values and compare what you have on Live and I guarantee most won't even be at the Rank 5 mark.

    Rank Minimum Rank Points Required
    1 N/A
    2 2000
    3 5000
    4 10000
    5 15000
    6 20000
    7 25000
    8 30000
    9 35000
    10 40000
    11 45000
    12 50000
    13 55000
    14 60000

    Quote Originally Posted by heartless8604 View Post
    I find it funny that they repeatedly are talking about honor calculations and such, but refuse to talk about server faction balance. Which will all make BG's worse.
    It is not their job to balance servers at all. They are making sure things work correctly. Why will BG's be worse? They'll already be cross realm when they are launched since they were in 1.12.

    Quote Originally Posted by heartless8604 View Post
    I understand their attempts at phased release but I think they just did Classic poorly. As much as it didn't follow release, WSG at the very slightest should have been released with the honor patch.
    No BG should have been. Reason being is in Classic we had a long period where it was open world PvP only. People wanted that back and now people can see it wasn't as glorious as they made it out to be forever. They can see just as we did in classic that flying mounts didn't kill world PvP, battlegrounds didn't kill world PvP, and that World PvP and the community killed World PvP. Everything isn't rosey and sunshiny that everyone thought it was.
  1. THEORACLE64's Avatar
    Bugs? IN CLASSIC?!?! duh.
  1. otaXephon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    No BG should have been. Reason being is in Classic we had a long period where it was open world PvP only. People wanted that back and now people can see it wasn't as glorious as they made it out to be forever. They can see just as we did in classic that flying mounts didn't kill world PvP, battlegrounds didn't kill world PvP, and that World PvP and the community killed World PvP. Everything isn't rosey and sunshiny that everyone thought it was.
    The only people who seem to be concerned with the state of PvP right now are the ones who are simultaneously blaming natural attrition on it. "My realm is dying and it's because WPvP is unfair!" Nevermind we've known that this was going to happen from the onset since the phases were clearly laid out to us. It just seems a lot of players are insecure about the fragility of Classic's playerbase and any minor inconvenience is all the ammunition they need to support arguments that "Blizzard doesn't care" and they "want Classic to fail."

    It's utter ridiculousness.
  1. heartless8604's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    How it makes me laugh at all the people who think ranking up in Classic was an easy thing. Even to do this date they think it was something easy. I don't remember the exact rank I ended up at (I'd have to look at my achievements), but I believe it was around Rank 7 - 8 and even that was a pain because I remember having to farm way more than usual and just finally giving up realizing I'd never hit Rank 14.

    I found this table below of the values roughly needed in Classic in order to hit each rank alone (and this was HK's alone). Look at those values and compare what you have on Live and I guarantee most won't even be at the Rank 5 mark.

    Rank Minimum Rank Points Required
    1 N/A
    2 2000
    3 5000
    4 10000
    5 15000
    6 20000
    7 25000
    8 30000
    9 35000
    10 40000
    11 45000
    12 50000
    13 55000
    14 60000



    It is not their job to balance servers at all. They are making sure things work correctly. Why will BG's be worse? They'll already be cross realm when they are launched since they were in 1.12.



    No BG should have been. Reason being is in Classic we had a long period where it was open world PvP only. People wanted that back and now people can see it wasn't as glorious as they made it out to be forever. They can see just as we did in classic that flying mounts didn't kill world PvP, battlegrounds didn't kill world PvP, and that World PvP and the community killed World PvP. Everything isn't rosey and sunshiny that everyone thought it was.
    Vast vast majority of players never played during the point between the honor or bg system. So for most players it's not what they remember.

    Besides it takes away from aspects I remember and won't get to see in classic. Playing on a brand new server and in the first few days WSG at level 10-19 was a blast with everyone in crappy whites and greys and occasional green.

    Also, do we have confirmation of crossrealm? Vanilla didn't have crossrealm bg's. It was only per server. Which if they're following classic, there won't be cross realm. Which means those dominated servers just won't have anyone to fight.
  1. otaXephon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by heartless8604 View Post
    Also, do we have confirmation of crossrealm? Vanilla didn't have crossrealm bg's. It was only per server. Which if they're following classic, there won't be cross realm. Which means those dominated servers just won't have anyone to fight.
    Cross realm BGs are confirmed:

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...u-need-to-know
  1. Kanegasi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by heartless8604 View Post
    Vanilla didn't have crossrealm bg's. It was only per server.
    Silithus dust, Eastern Plaguelands towers, and cross-realm battlegrounds were the selling points of Patch 1.12.0.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_1.12.0
  1. Dervrak's Avatar
    I think it's a bit amusing that the folks are screaming that Vanilla PVP is unbalanced, unfair and tedious and want it fixed. For those of us that lived through it, it WAS unbalanced, unfair and tedious which is why it was changed and improved many times over the last 15 years. But if you change it then you really aren't playing Vanilla anymore.....
  1. chiddie's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by durenas View Post
    The top rank 14 warrior on my server in vanilla was a dude that literally shared his account so he could pvp 24/7.
    All the Rank 14 were sharers back then.
  1. potis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    All the Rank 14 were sharers back then.
    Nah, it all depends on server, and secondary on the population of it.

    People didnt figure out how honor worked until late July-early August 2005, when the first Rank 14s and some videos started popping up.

    Thats when people realized that First on Honor/Week = more % = Rank 14, and the premading started.

    Half EU servers in late July had just opened at May, and as many others released at August, those servers didnt have as many 60s as the original Feb 2005 servers.

    I was in the premade group for the first 3 out of 4 on the Horde side, there was no sharing then at August-September 2005, because it was a generally easy going server still, we barely played 10h/day and sometimes less because eventually there was an agreement between the higher ranked ones on who gets each week because the server was still barely 4 months old and in reality it had 1 premade group and randoms, and the second premade group didnt appear for awhile etc.. (Still 10h is a lot, but nowhere near what was going on 3 months after that).

    Now, my IRL friends that rerolled and started on an August 2005 opened server to rush for those Ranks? Yeah, show did so many others on both sides, guess that happened..24/7 grinding and some account sharing because of that for months, because they couldnt come to an agreement, so they kept grinding and grinding because it was 3-4 premade groups on each side instantly, and even more right after.
  1. Bhanzai's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by babyback View Post
    I expect the grind being even steeper in Classic than in Vanilla. Servers are way bigger now so there are a lot more competing for high ranks than before. If I recall correctly ranks were limited back then and I assume the same system is applied in Classic.

    So if you want those high rinks expect to be putting in some serious hours into PvP.
    This is absolutely true. In vanilla you had to collude with other players for higher ranks and take your turn when it came up. Now that there are more players competing for those ranks its going to be a bigger pain in the ass than it originally was!
  1. munkeyinorbit's Avatar
    What would be awesome if the first rank 14 happened and then blizzard just banned the top 10k accounts for account sharing. That would be so funny. Especially from my rank 3 position.

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