Patch 8.3 Hotfixes - June 2, 2020

This is further proof that these systems are never balanced or even intended to be balanced. Effects should be as close to equally balanced in effectiveness as possible, there shouldn't be effects miles ahead of others with their "rarity" as an excuse for being better. Rarity means nothing once you've attained it, but the power imbalance is there forever so long as that content is relevant.

Originally Posted by Alcsaar

This is further proof that these systems are never balanced or even intended to be balanced. Effects should be as close to equally balanced in effectiveness as possible, there shouldn't be effects miles ahead of others with their "rarity" as an excuse for being better. Rarity means nothing once you've attained it, but the power imbalance is there forever so long as that content is relevant.

Not surprising that this corruption system got the azerite system treatment. Both not fully tested with azerite being 2-3 weeks tested before launch. Threw em out knowing full well it was full of problems and just "Eh we'll fix it later".

So it was ok that you could be completed busted when it was down to sheer luck? There were people running around with full gushing wounds traits before the vendor came out, if it needed a (35%) nerf (and we all knew it did) then why the hell did we need the vendor to be the justification? Never before had there been such a big power gap between the very lucky and the very unlucky, but apparently that was totally fine in Blizzard's eyes since only now do they feel the need to nerf it.

Originally Posted by Zypherz

So it was ok that you could be completed busted when it was down to sheer luck? There were people running around with full gushing wounds traits before the vendor came out, if it needed a (35%) nerf (and we all knew it did) then why the hell did we need the vendor to be the justification? Never before had there been such a big power gap between the very lucky and the very unlucky, but apparently that was totally fine in Blizzard's eyes since only now do they feel the need to nerf it.

https://i.imgflip.com/43sdqi.jpg

So does that mean gushing wounds in bad now? Should it be something we spend echos on, or is it a dead corruption now?

Originally Posted by sociald1077

So does that mean gushing wounds in bad now? Should it be something we spend echos on, or is it a dead corruption now?

It depends on your spec, but from what I've been hearing since the nerf was first announced the corruption is pretty much dead now.

It looks good for shadowland. Covenants will be balanced at start don't worry!

Originally Posted by Alcsaar

This is further proof that these systems are never balanced or even intended to be balanced. Effects should be as close to equally balanced in effectiveness as possible, there shouldn't be effects miles ahead of others with their "rarity" as an excuse for being better. Rarity means nothing once you've attained it, but the power imbalance is there forever so long as that content is relevant.

The worst thing is that the “rarity” wasn’t even based on effort or skill. No. It was based on PURE luck. Imagine if in Classic someone just woke up one day, opened an chest, and BOOM! they got Thunderfury just because they were lucky. Or the Warglaives in TBC. Or Shadowmourne in Wrath. “Rarity” can be okay if at least it is based on effort/skill. I’m not sure why Blizzard think it’s okay that LUCK has become a more important factor than effort.

So either they never intended to make the corruptions targetable when this system was in development or they said "fuck it let's reward these who were extremely lucky even more".

Also, I can't see a point in nerfing it before it's available to buy. Right now they are just punishing people who have one GW. By their own words, it's not a problem until it's available to buy (unless it will be this friday/saturday).

Originally Posted by TheFuse

It depends on your spec, but from what I've been hearing since the nerf was first announced the corruption is pretty much dead now.

If it was completely broken on the opposite scale before, and was nerfed by 35% to become "pretty much dead", does that not mean that the actual damage of it was sort of okay in the first place? (hint - not really to both "pretty much dead now" and "okay in the first place")

According to bloodmallet it's still top 3-4 for most specs on damage per corruption. If the community considers that "broken" in a negative way compared to what it was before (considering it can still do damage while your target is hiding in PvP etc) then the community is likely the real issue. I'm not saying that corruption is a good thing (in fact I think it's a decent idea executed poorly), but sometimes it helps being at least a little bit objective.

Originally Posted by Arainie

If it was completely broken on the opposite scale before, and was nerfed by 35% to become "pretty much dead", does that not mean that the actual damage of it was sort of okay in the first place? (hint - not really to both "pretty much dead now" and "okay in the first place")

According to bloodmallet it's still top 3-4 for most specs on damage per corruption. If the community considers that "broken" in a negative way compared to what it was before (considering it can still do damage while your target is hiding in PvP etc) then the community is likely the real issue. I'm not saying that corruption is a good thing (in fact I think it's a decent idea executed poorly), but sometimes it helps being at least a little bit objective.

The simulations on Bloodmallet are often wrong because it’s based on a specific gear set. So for example, severe wont sim very well if there is almost no crit on the specific gear set.

If GW was broken in PVE then it must mean that Expedient is also broken for arms warriors and warlocks. Masterfull must be broken for fire mages. And Severe must be broken for Hunters. Because all those corruptions are better than GW for those specs/classes.

Originally Posted by Kaver

The simulations on Bloodmallet are often wrong because it’s based on a specific gear set. So for example, severe wont sim very well if there is almost no crit on the specific gear set.

If GW was broken in PVE then it must mean that Expedient is also broken for arms warriors and warlocks. Masterfull must be broken for fire mages. And Severe must be broken for Hunters. Because all those corruptions are better than GW for those specs/classes.

That's entirely my point though. It wasn't "broken" for PvE, and it isn't "broken" for PvE after the nerfs either. It was just very good and now there's something better for a few classes but gushing wounds is still decent DPS/Corruption (and not "dogshit" or "hot garbage" as some people want to claim).

PvP is another question though, and that's most likely what really warranted the nerf in the first place.

What's actually broken is how much damage corruption contributes to in the first place. When passive effects do 30-60% of your damage depending on class for those that play with passive corruptions/essences etc something just feels so off.

Originally Posted by Arainie

That's entirely my point though. It wasn't "broken" for PvE, and it isn't "broken" for PvE after the nerfs either. It was just very good and now there's something better for a few classes but gushing wounds is still decent DPS/Corruption (and not "dogshit" or "hot garbage" as some people want to claim).

PvP is another question though, and that's most likely what really warranted the nerf in the first place.

What's actually broken is how much damage corruption contributes to in the first place. When passive effects do 30-60% of your damage depending on class for those that play with passive corruptions/essences etc something just feels so off.

But why nerf just one corruption with the argument that it’s “broken“ when there are other corruptions which are even more “broken” (in pve). I don’t understand the logic. If GW was so “broken” then why would Arms Warriors still rather use Expedient..

Originally Posted by Kaver

But why nerf just one corruption with the argument that it’s “broken“ when there are other corruptions which are even more “broken” (in pve). I don’t understand the logic. If GW was so “broken” then why would Arms Warriors still rather use Expedient..

Haste corruptions don't give an infinite benefit. You stack it to a point then focus on other corruptions. Haste not only affects core rotations but also synergises with other corruptions/essences/what not.

Pure damage corruptions don't really lose power the more you stack, GW was the most problematic of the pure damage corruptions because it had rediculously high DPS per corruption point. Their choices were increase the corruption cost or nerf the damage, they chose the latter.

Also bear in mind pure damage corruptions have zero affect on your gameplay, it's completely all passive damage. Nerfing stat corruptions has a massive affect on how your class plays (and if you look at how they treated the planned ineffable truth nerfs, massively changing gameplay is not in their focus).

When people were lucky and had most of their gear with gushing wounds - which made them kinda OP - it's fine.
When everyone has it - it's too powerfull.

Good job Blizz at balancing.

Originally Posted by Great Destiny Man

Haste corruptions don't give an infinite benefit. You stack it to a point then focus on other corruptions. Haste not only affects core rotations but also synergises with other corruptions/essences/what not.

Pure damage corruptions don't really lose power the more you stack, GW was the most problematic of the pure damage corruptions because it had rediculously high DPS per corruption point. Their choices were increase the corruption cost or nerf the damage, they chose the latter.

Also bear in mind pure damage corruptions have zero affect on your gameplay, it's completely all passive damage. Nerfing stat corruptions has a massive affect on how your class plays (and if you look at how they treated the planned ineffable truth nerfs, massively changing gameplay is not in their focus).

But GW doesn’t have a higer dps per corruption ratio than Expedient has for Arms warriors. And Arms doesn’t stack Expedient to a certain point, they keep stacking it. It’s not fair that some specs get so much more dps from stats than other specs.

Originally Posted by Kaver

But GW doesn’t have a higer dps per corruption ratio than Expedient has for Arms warriors. And Arms doesn’t stack Expedient to a certain point, they keep stacking it. It’s not fair that some specs get so much more dps from stats than other specs.

But nerfing Expedient nerfs it for everyone, not just Arms warriors. If you want to focus purely on Arms warrior usage then your argument should be "adjust haste scaling for that spec". Same way that nerfing masterful only would make it even more useless for any non-mage.

Originally Posted by Great Destiny Man

But nerfing Expedient nerfs it for everyone, not just Arms warriors. If you want to focus purely on Arms warrior usage then your argument should be "adjust haste scaling for that spec". Same way that nerfing masterful only would make it even more useless for any non-mage.

My argument is not really to nerf anything. I just used Expedient as an example of why nerfing Gushing Wounds wasn’t really necessary in PVE. It would not have made any specs OP because the best specs in the game wouldn’t have used it anyway. Arms would still use expedient and Mage would still Masterful. So nerfing Gushing Wounds was not really necessary in PVE.

PVP is a different story of course.

Originally Posted by Eazy

When people were lucky and had most of their gear with gushing wounds - which made them kinda OP - it's fine.
When everyone has it - it's too powerfull.

Good job Blizz at balancing.

This is easily understandable.

10 people on 100 have it = who cares if it’s op.
90 people on 100 have it = wait it’s op

The idea of “buy your own corruptions” is fine but it should have been implemented the day corruptions went live (as well as buyable essences for alts).

Originally Posted by sociald1077

So does that mean gushing wounds in bad now? Should it be something we spend echos on, or is it a dead corruption now?

bad? no.
is no longer ultra overpowered? yes.
is still good to have? only 1 or 2 on 475+ items and for some specs(basically all spec that used it before the nerf), items lower than 475? better stick a severe or expedient on it