Shadowlands Beta - Mythic Keystone Dungeons Changes

Originally Posted by LordVargK

Volcanic still does that now. A mage would do more DPS if he blinks before getting hit (or moves a bit to the side). Priest using Levitate would only allow him to use instant spells, so Levitate would be a dmg loss. It's not about the fall damage (except when it kills you, but a 100% oneshot on fail affix would be stupid), it's about the time in the air that you can't DPS. Or heal. If I understand the ability correctly.
I also like DPS being punished, but I think that healers should have to, you know, heal. Currently good M+ healers do the most damage. That's kinda not the point of a healer. So I welcome affixes that make healing harder, but at the same time not insta kill you if you make a mistake.

We have those, they are called tyrannical, teeming, fortified, bursting and grievous. All of those cause people to take extra unavoidable damage that has to be healed through. When you get shitty DPS that can't/won't deal with the rest of the affixes, it's still the healer who has to pick up for their slack (often to the point, where people will blame the healer for not healing through 3 orb explosions). Ultimately, reduced damage debuff is also punishing the healer though, because stuff dies slower, so they have to heal for longer time. People hate being pushed around though. If say explosive did knockback on explosion (only for DPS characters), as a melee I'd make 100% sure to get every single one of them. Hate getting knocked back. And standing in sanguine could reduce your visions similar to how the darkness phase on KJ. Make the punishment for failing a mechanic annoying to the player failing rather than putting more pressure on the healer.

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Originally Posted by Zephire

especially mythic N'zoth, he's great!

Dunno, I didn't really like the progression on him. The fight itself is good, but it's (was) tuned so tight, that there was zero room for any improvisation. Everyone has assigned positions, when and on what they are supposed to use their cooldowns and neck. The only thing you have to react to is paranoia. Rest is just doing exactly the same thing over and over again, until no one messes up and the boss just falls over. For a bit I was also in the "always upstairs" group, and that was the most boring thing ever.

Originally Posted by h4rr0d

Dunno, I didn't really like the progression on him. The fight itself is good, but it's (was) tuned so tight, that there was zero room for any improvisation. Everyone has assigned positions, when and on what they are supposed to use their cooldowns and neck. The only thing you have to react to is paranoia. Rest is just doing exactly the same thing over and over again, until no one messes up and the boss just falls over. For a bit I was also in the "always upstairs" group, and that was the most boring thing ever.

Yeah that's still true. I like the "group" progression on him though, since we all have, as you said, very set things to do. It's a more linear progress than one where you have to improvise a lot. I like both but the later can shroud progress due to the improvisation part so it can, at times, feel like you're getting no where while N'zoth have clear progress checks everywhere

Prideful seems very interesting!
I think they should do more of these. Something that takes time in m+ but offers good trade off.
Could have something like "A mini boss in the middle of the dungeon resets all cds and removes exhausted from Heroism and Time Warp after defeated." Or everyone gains full fed and gets a free flask buff :P

These changes are pretty good , now get rid of Tyrannical and we're good to go.

Hope the affix dmg is finely tuned to be a threat , the side effect changes seem kinda just a nerf of M+ difficulty

So "priest only" groups on bursting incoming. What the point? Everyone who wanted to heal M+ already leveled pala or druid, there's no need to change meta. They really should remove aoe dispell or make it not working on bursting.

Also don't like jumping volcanoes. It should be a personal choice whether you want to sacrifice DPS for survivability or the other way around. Now there's no choice. It's not like it's a hard affix anyway.

Originally Posted by longevity

mythic dungeons aka bliz asking us to repeat the same content about 1000x for the entire 2 years of the xpac

this game feels too much like a job rather than fun

Umm, they are not asking us to do anything. They are making the option available for those that want to. Which I appreciate, because I really enjoy pushing keys and io.

Why are you so confused by this? Don't like it, don't do it. It's certainly not required for raiding, as you can obtain more than enough gear from the raids itself. Even if you're doing mythic. And yes, I have done this myself ... took a break from the game, came back and joined my guilds mythic progression, but took a few months before getting back into keys. Literally had no issue with mythic raiding while avoiding mythic+ altogether.

I've been begging for m+ nerfs since they moved fort and tyrannical to t2. Thank God they finally did.

If they wanted to make mythic dungeons cool they would have a bunch of pre-made layouts in the same dungeons but with new mobs and bosses new mechanics so you never know which version of that mythic dungeon you're getting.

Originally Posted by vsb

So "priest only" groups on bursting incoming. What the point? Everyone who wanted to heal M+ already leveled pala or druid, there's no need to change meta. They really should remove aoe dispell or make it not working on bursting.

Also don't like jumping volcanoes. It should be a personal choice whether you want to sacrifice DPS for survivability or the other way around. Now there's no choice. It's not like it's a hard affix anyway.

I mean, I'm not even sure how to respond to that. Priests are very much bottom of the barren in m+, now they get some much needed love for affix they don't really have tools to deal with and you are going to bitch about it? You do realize, there are people who want some challenge healing m+ or just like the class, and these changes make priests a lot more viable for m+?

And for volcanic, a lot of m+ runs (i dare say majority) happen in pug environment, so you are not trading survivability for dps, you are basically screwing over your healer (who already is affected by the most by affixes) for position on damage meter. Awesome attitude.

Originally Posted by vsb

So "priest only" groups on bursting incoming. What the point? Everyone who wanted to heal M+ already leveled pala or druid, there's no need to change meta. They really should remove aoe dispell or make it not working on bursting.

Also don't like jumping volcanoes. It should be a personal choice whether you want to sacrifice DPS for survivability or the other way around. Now there's no choice. It's not like it's a hard affix anyway.

what?! right now loads of the good healer classes don't care about bursting? and they are doing more than just fine with bursting. priests on the other hand have a hard time dealing with it? it's a freaking good change overall but you just seem to be a hater my friend. priest only meta, what are you on about

right now you don't really care about volcanic, it's a dead affix so i think it's a good change and a change you actually have to play around now.

Originally Posted by hambone2626

the bursting one is unfair priest are going to have the advantage since they can mass dispel and us lowley healers will only be able to dispell one

Is it bad that classes have strengths and weaknesses?

Originally Posted by Sharnie786

Some of these changes seem good but Grievous' new functionality is definitely a nerf for Resto Druids! Feelsbad!

Imagine someone has 4 stacks of grievous and in order to remove it casting Rejuv 4 times removes it faster than Regrowth! That seems kinda messed up to me tbh

Unless I misread, rejuv wouldn't remove anything because it says "non-periodic heals". Swiftmend, Regrowth (if the initial heal counts) and Nourish would be the druid spells that remove stacks.

Originally Posted by IndCold

Unless I misread, rejuv wouldn't remove anything because it says "non-periodic heals". Swiftmend, Regrowth (if the initial heal counts) and Nourish would be the druid spells that remove stacks.

I'd think the "hit" of rejuv would count as nonperiodic.

Scaling bursting with keystone level sounds like it's going to be harder but not impossible to deal with. Of course a priest of some sort will be in meta no doubt.

Grievous scaling with level sounds like a mana draining shitty nightmare. I doubt the stack-remove mechanic will help much.

I'm still left wondering why the goal is to make the "easy" affixes harder at all. Bring the others down (more) instead. Focus on mob and boss mechanics. Much more happy fun time.

add MORE BETA invites!!!!

Plz send me a message when they remove the m+ system completely, or change the design. Till then, cya. Cheers.

Originally Posted by h4rr0d

I'd think the "hit" of rejuv would count as nonperiodic.

Huh, I guess it could. The spell wording only says it heals over X sec, so I didn't even think it had an initial heal, I haven't played resto druid in a decade.

Originally Posted by Scrysis

Well, right now, you can't get rid of any of the grevious stacks at all unless you heal someone above the threshold. Druids have swiftmend, and they're getting nourish back. And nourish is going to have modified cast times. So I don't think they'll be in much of a bad position at all.

I thibk that's where you're slightly mislead. A higher ilvl doesn't mean better item. You can get 475 Azetite pieces from the vendor for very little currency, however, they're not the best. The best items still come from raids. For example. I recently started raiding with my mage and I got 3 BiS HC pieces of Azerite that made my damage go way higher than those 480 pieces.

Even in terms of stats, most of the best gear comes from raids. The ilvl is irrelevant unless it's a massive jump. The 430 HC Font of Azshara trinket is still better than most M Nyalotha trinkets for some casters.

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Originally Posted by h4rr0d

We have those, they are called tyrannical, teeming, fortified, bursting and grievous. All of those cause people to take extra unavoidable damage that has to be healed through. When you get shitty DPS that can't/won't deal with the rest of the affixes, it's still the healer who has to pick up for their slack (often to the point, where people will blame the healer for not healing through 3 orb explosions). Ultimately, reduced damage debuff is also punishing the healer though, because stuff dies slower, so they have to heal for longer time. People hate being pushed around though. If say explosive did knockback on explosion (only for DPS characters), as a melee I'd make 100% sure to get every single one of them. Hate getting knocked back. And standing in sanguine could reduce your visions similar to how the darkness phase on KJ. Make the punishment for failing a mechanic annoying to the player failing rather than putting more pressure on the healer.

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Dunno, I didn't really like the progression on him. The fight itself is good, but it's (was) tuned so tight, that there was zero room for any improvisation. Everyone has assigned positions, when and on what they are supposed to use their cooldowns and neck. The only thing you have to react to is paranoia. Rest is just doing exactly the same thing over and over again, until no one messes up and the boss just falls over. For a bit I was also in the "always upstairs" group, and that was the most boring thing ever.

I'm not sure most good healers do do the most damage in m+. The only 4 healers that do decent dmg in M+ are Disc, Hpala, Rdruid and Monk. Holy Priest and RSham don't have the dmg for AoE pulls. That's where most the other healers dmg comes from. Disc with DoT spreading, monk with spinning crane kick, pala with consecration and druids with dots and bleeds if specced into feral.

I like doing healing AND dmg to help out ny group, I do that in raids and m+. I think that it shows not only can I keep people alive but when there is nothing to heal I am still being useful. A healers job is not only to heal, it's to be a part of a group and help that group in anyway. I have found that attitude in pugs a lot where people keep saying healers are meant to heal not DPS, but I've never seen an actual statement by Blizz saying what a healer is and isn't supposed to do.

The reason I really enjoy RestoDruid is because I can moonfire a whole bunch of mobs, then sunfire then go cat and put bleeds and then swipe away until I need to heal. I've not had this much fun healing anything ever.

I think DPS should be punished for thinking a healer is supposed to heal away their mistakes. Yes, you keep the group alive but not to the point where you're spamming expensive heals when it is unnecessary.

Originally Posted by Sharnie786

I thibk that's where you're slightly mislead. A higher ilvl doesn't mean better item. You can get 475 Azetite pieces from the vendor for very little currency, however, they're not the best. The best items still come from raids. For example. I recently started raiding with my mage and I got 3 BiS HC pieces of Azerite that made my damage go way higher than those 480 pieces.

Even in terms of stats, most of the best gear comes from raids. The ilvl is irrelevant unless it's a massive jump. The 430 HC Font of Azshara trinket is still better than most M Nyalotha trinkets for some casters.

Misquote? I didn't talk about ilevel at all. . . .