Development Update: The Road to Shadowlands
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In seven weeks, brave heroes of Azeroth will venture into the Shadowlands to confront the forces of the mysterious Jailer and discover the nature of Warcraft’s afterlife. As our development shifts from implementation of new designs and content, towards polish and tuning of the world we have crafted, I would like to offer a roadmap for what to expect over the coming weeks on our Beta servers.

Introducing 9.0.2

First, on a technical note, players paying close attention to the Beta client may notice that this week’s update bears the designation “9.0.2.” Unlike recent expansions, this time around we will have not one but two client updates, aka patches, in the weeks prior to the official release of the expansion. Development of Shadowlands -specific content (the zones and dungeons of the Shadowlands, covenants, etc.) will proceed with weekly Beta updates in the 9.0.2 branch, while our Public Test Realm runs patch 9.0.1. This approach allows us to get features like the new character customization options and the streamlined leveling experience into your hands sooner in 9.0.1, while allowing the team the maximum possible time to keep polishing the level 51-60 Shadowlands experience in 9.0.2. Our Beta environment will continue to receive weekly 9.0.2 updates, and patch 9.0.2 will go live shortly before Shadowlands officially launches.

Alt Leveling

As we first announced at BlizzCon last year, while everyone’s first trip through the Shadowlands is driven by a linear narrative campaign that grants access to endgame features such as covenants, world quests, and more, we want to offer players who are leveling alts a much more flexible experience. We have had a version of that experience available in Beta for the past few weeks, as alts select their covenant immediately upon first arriving in Oribos, and then can tackle the four zones in any order they choose.

However, we’ve received a couple of points of feedback that have led us to refine this approach: First, a number of testers felt like they weren’t necessarily ready to pick a covenant right away on a new class, and wished they could replay the narrative arc that let them “test drive” each of the active abilities along the way. Second, even for players who were familiar with the overall story by that point, it felt confusing or wrong to play through portions of some zone campaigns out of order or while already a member of a covenant (e.g. doing the main Revendreth arc while already being a member of Renethal’s venthyr).

In this week’s build, alts emerging from the Maw for the first time will be met in Oribos by the mysterious Fatescribe, who now offers an explicit choice between replaying the narrative arc as first-time characters experienced it, or following the threads of fate to their inevitable conclusion and beginning the journey at a point following the climactic events at the end of Revendreth’s story. Characters choosing the latter option will enter the Shadowlands in a state where the entire narrative Campaign has already been completed, with new Bonus Objectives available in locations that were previously central to the Campaign. Lucrative zone-wide objectives for each of the four zones will provide additional structure while allowing alts to roam the Shadowlands as they prefer, earning gear and experience through their choice of a zone’s side quests, bonus objectives, world quests, dungeons, or rares and treasures.

Our goal with this alt experience remains offering more flexibility than ever before on repeat playthroughs, while also allowing alts to begin making progress towards their endgame goals, earning Anima for their covenant’s reservoir or catching up on Renown so that they can hit the ground running when they reach 60. We look forward to hearing feedback on how the new experience feels!

Torghast Progression

A number of players in the past couple of months on Beta have raised concerns about what seemed like excessively lengthy introductory questlines in Torghast, which at their worst could feel like five or six successive tutorials that had to be completed before players could access the “real” feature. In a coming build (likely next week), we’re restructuring the way Torghast is unlocked, such that players can gain full access to the main wings of the tower after completing just a single introductory run that also grants access to the Runecarver. The remaining quests to locate and rescue Jaina and Thrall will be incorporated into a larger questline that spans the six main Torghast cell blocks, rewards legendary crafting materials, and eventually unlocks the Twisting Corridors section at its conclusion.

Speaking of Twisting Corridors, as we finalize tuning, Twisting Corridors should come into its own as the “Challenge Mode” wing of Torghast, offering eighteen-floor runs at a higher level of difficulty than the rest of Torghast, with cosmetic rewards for clearing certain thresholds.

Covenants

Covenants are the centerpiece of Shadowlands and have been the subject of passionate discourse across the community over the past weeks, which has been mirrored by discussion and debate within our team. From the system’s first conception, selecting a covenant was crafted to be a weighty decision, shaping a character’s abilities, cosmetic rewards, and access to endgame story arcs and sanctum systems. A weighty decision almost by definition comes with some amount of stress, whether anxiety about making the “wrong” choice, or just evaluating various pros and cons and wishing there were a way to just get the best of all worlds.

In designing this system, we’ve done what we can to minimize the burden of regret. Those measures should be fully enabled by next week’s Beta release. While picking a covenant at the end of your journey to max level is a weighty choice, it is not a permanent one. If you find that, whatever the reason, you are unhappy with your initial covenant pick at level 60, you need only return to Oribos and you can immediately switch to a different one. Now, if you later wish to rejoin a covenant that you have left, that is slightly more involved: There is a path to redemption consisting of a series of two weekly quests to atone for breaking your vow and to rededicate yourself to that covenant’s cause. These quests are now available for testing in Beta; they are still being tuned, but the intent is that they are largely ceremonial rather than feeling like an arduous grind.

We have also taken steps to ensure that a player who switches covenants, as well as one who reaches max level later on in the expansion, never feels permanently behind as a result. Renown measures the strength of a player’s connection to their covenant and is the main vehicle for unlocking additional Soulbind powers and various covenant perks and rewards. Players primarily earn Renown via weekly quests to gather anima from across the Shadowlands, and to rescue souls from the Maw and restore them to their rightful place in the covenant. If a player has missed any of those quests, however, they will find that they can earn Renown directly through a range of activities such as dungeons, world quests, and PvP, until they are fully caught up. This system will be functional on Beta in the coming weeks.

In short, a player who regrets their covenant choice, and who wants to change their mind, should be able to do so straightforwardly at any point during the expansion, and will be able to reach a state with no long-term drawbacks or disadvantages compared to someone who had been in that covenant all along.

We’ve also heard from many players who, rather than being worried about regretting their choice, would prefer that they not have to choose at all; they have advocated that we offer a way to switch among the various active abilities offered by covenants without friction. But these covenant systems are thoroughly intertwined: Covenant abilities are often modified by covenant-specific conduits and soulbinds; most of those soulbinds in turn are unlocked through covenant-specific narrative campaigns. Granting access to one of these without the others would lead to an incomplete or confusing result. In short, pulling on that thread (or cord, as it were) would unravel the entire fabric of the system. Even so, we would embrace the work required to rebuild the covenant system along those lines if we agreed that it would be an improvement, but we ultimately do not share that view.

Before starting an arena match, engaging a raid boss, or entering a dungeon, a character in Shadowlands can change their specialization, talents (and PvP talents if appropriate), legendary item, other equipment, active soulbind, and chosen path within that soulbind. When it comes to customizing your “loadout” – the set of tools you’re going to take into a given encounter – WoW offers more options than ever before, and you can almost entirely reshape your character on the fly to suit the moment. But as malleable as those choices are, none of them, other than perhaps your specialization, defines your character – they aren’t who you are, but rather what you happen to be doing at any given moment.

Rather than add yet another layer to that decision matrix, we’re trying to do something different here, and let players more meaningfully define their character’s identity and set themselves apart from others who play the same class. And that identity entails a blend of aesthetic preference, narrative experience, and mechanical strengths and weaknesses. From the earliest sketched designs of the covenant system, our goal was for the answer to “what do you play?” in Shadowlands to be “Kyrian paladin” or “Venthyr paladin” rather than just “paladin.” And given the central role of combat and power progression to World of Warcraft as a whole, achieving that goal for most players requires that there be player power implications to covenant choice.

None of this is to say that development on covenants and their powers is finished, or that we are not open to further changes. Far from it. We understand that when we offer a choice between competing packages of strengths and weaknesses, if we’re not careful, especially given social and community pressures, weaknesses can easily overshadow strengths. The satisfaction of having an edge in one type of content doesn’t make up for the frustration of being excluded entirely from participating in another. But while tearing down the entire system may seem to some like the simplest way to avoid that pitfall, we’re committed to working with the community to ensure that players feel viable regardless of their covenant choice.

If you really want to go Kyrian on your rogue, but can’t justify it because every guide currently says that the Necrolords’ Serrated Bone Spike is too good to pass up, or if an otherwise appealing covenant has benefits that seem irrelevant in PvP, those are exactly the sorts of imbalance we want to fix, and your feedback is essential to that process. In the coming weeks, we’ll be doing numerical tuning, making changes to underlying ability designs when needed, and potentially leveraging covenant-specific conduits if a covenant needs some targeted shoring up to ensure that they’re viable in a particular type of content. As our combat team shifts its focus primarily to tuning, we’ll be rolling those changes out to Beta servers ASAP for further testing and iteration.

PvP Itemization

We have been following the constructive feedback about the range of gear available on our PvP vendors, and we agree with the underlying concerns. While WoW is an interconnected ecosystem of different content and systems and we feel that the very strongest characters should be the ones who participate and excel in a wide range of activities, each individual progression path should offer the majority of the tools required for success in that path. The current PvP vendors fall short of that goal.

We are considering a few different solutions, such as reworking the stat coverage of the vendor gear and/or providing PvP-specific bonuses through those items. As soon as we’ve settled on a direction, we’ll share our plan for feedback, and get the changes up on Beta for testing.

Sockets

While we eliminated Warforging and Titanforging in Shadowlands , with the goal of increasing clarity and player agency over rewards, the question of how to handle sockets was not quite as clear-cut. A certain critical mass of sockets across all player gear is essential to support Jewelcrafting as a player profession, and in recent expansions the chance for any endgame item to upgrade to a socketed version gave players of all playstyles the opportunity to interact with the Jewelcrafting tradeskill. At the same time, sockets unquestionably constitute power, and can be every bit as impactful as Warforging.

Trying to balance these considerations, the approach we’ve settled on for Shadowlands is to keep sockets as a random item property, but to allow players to add sockets to their items via a consumable sold by Ve’nari in the Maw (similar to Gouged Eyes in the recent Visions of N’Zoth update). This way all players can take advantage of gems and seeing a socketed item drop offers a short-term efficiency advantage, but in the long run competitive players can still make steady progress towards a best-in-slot gear setup without relying on an additional layer of randomness. Finally, in order to limit the total impact of gems, and the power gap between players with full sockets and those without, in Shadowlands only Helms, Rings, Necks, Bracers, and Belts can have a socket randomly generated or added by Ve’nari. These changes should all be active by next week’s Beta update.

The one thing all the above topics have in common is that they have been driven by your passionate feedback throughout the development process, which has helped shape the game for the better over the course of the past year. And a special thanks to all the testers reporting bugs on Beta – we’ve already fixed thousands of issues based on your reports, and are continuing to work through those reports as we aim to make Shadowlands the best experience it can possibly be when it arrives on October 26.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Development Update: The Road to Shadowlands started by Lumy View original post
Comments 206 Comments
  1. Radazar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage Alodi View Post
    Well this shit better go live asap , they won't change their mind on covenant until they see the outrage on live servers.
    lmao even if they do change it then people will bitch that they went back on the system they put into the game. their is no making you people happy
  1. GreenJesus's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Meta View Post
    No wait hold the f***ing phone!

    "Speaking of Twisting Corridors, as we finalize tuning, Twisting Corridors should come into its own as the “Challenge Mode” wing of Torghast, offering eighteen-floor runs at a higher level of difficulty than the rest of Torghast, with cosmetic rewards for clearing certain thresholds."

    Is that what has become of the supposed "Infinite Dungeon" that Torghast was ment to be? Are you legit telling me that there will be no infinite climb mode and that I will only get 18 floors to climb; Then I will have to start over from scratch and just do 0-18 again? That can't be it? There still must be a infinite mode which is there just for s**ts n giggles? Screw if it has any rewards or not of any kind; What I was looking forward too in Shadowlands was to climb this supposed "infinite tower" they pushed so heavy at Blizzcon; So for the love of the Jailer please tell me this 18 floor thing is it's own thing and that there still will be a mode that just goes on forever...
    Does this mean that regular Torghast is just the "shits and giggles" version to complete a questline, but the 18 floor "Twisting Corridors" is the actual repeatable content that will have all the rewards? I mean.. to be honest I'm not sure being forced to go up 99 floors a week would have been very fun.. I feel like 18 floors is already a good amount of floors. Since I don't have a lot of time I feel like this change is good for me.
  1. Wulfey's Avatar
    For the covenants, it will be mathed out early on which Covenant is the best for your spec/class. You will pick that one.

    The real worry is when Blizz learn of this math and nerf the crap out of the mathematically superior one.

    Take Condemn/Venthyr for Warriors. This is a flat no brainer. Condemn is miles ahead of the other covenant abilities due its utility in all aspects of the game.

    What happens when they nerf it?
  1. Alcsaar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    You're of course allowed to think that, and they're allowed to disagree.
    There is nothing to "think" about. The best covenants will get mathed out and then 99% of people will choose the strongest covenant for their spec/class and that will be it. Covenants are an illusion of choice and nothing more, and that is what makes it a poor system. Not to mention I can already see people getting denied from mythic+/raids because they aren't their BIS covenant.
  1. Brash's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Wulfey View Post
    For the covenants, it will be mathed out early on which Covenant is the best for your spec/class. You will pick that one.

    The real worry is when Blizz learn of this math and nerf the crap out of the mathematically superior one.

    Take Condemn/Venthyr for Warriors. This is a flat no brainer. Condemn is miles ahead of the other covenant abilities due its utility in all aspects of the game.

    What happens when they nerf it?
    Then it comes more in line with the rest of the spells but is still good?
  1. Cosmic Janitor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Squishlee View Post
    Yea, this is fucked. Either they will end up with a shit system until 9.3, OR they will nerf covenant abilities so bad you don't even press them which will just mean "choose venthyr for the teleport". GG Blizz, GG.
    Thanks to various shoe-horned in interactions this won't be the case anymore. At least not across the board. For m+ you pretty much want one of each coveant if you run a permanent team, since they allow for some completely broken skips or power upgrades in the dungeons.

    The first raid currently could mean that many people either roll kyrian or go alliance for hardcore progress to get rid of the bleeds (from all the non-vampire mobs..).
  1. Omedon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Alcsaar View Post
    There is nothing to "think" about. The best covenants will get mathed out and then 99% of people will choose the strongest covenant for their spec/class and that will be it. Covenants are an illusion of choice and nothing more, and that is what makes it a poor system. Not to mention I can already see people getting denied from mythic+/raids because they aren't their BIS covenant.
    Not everyone cares about the layers of content where people are denying each other. Most if not all content will be developed as covenant agnostic because it's intended for everyone to see it regardless of covenant. Difficulty levels are not content. Covenant campaigns are content and yes, there your covenant will matter... because that just makes sense.
  1. Darknessvamp's Avatar
    Tl;dr on Covenants: they're not changing it before launch, they don't intend to figure out how to switch out the soul bind talent tree buffs that apply to the abilities to make them swappable, they'll probably change it after a patch due to complaints or two into the expansion.
  1. Cosmic Janitor's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Does this mean that regular Torghast is just the "shits and giggles" version to complete a questline, but the 18 floor "Twisting Corridors" is the actual repeatable content that will have all the rewards? I mean.. to be honest I'm not sure being forced to go up 99 floors a week would have been very fun.. I feel like 18 floors is already a good amount of floors. Since I don't have a lot of time I feel like this change is good for me.
    6 floors is for weekly power gains, 18 is for farming cosmetics/toys/pets/etc.
  1. baseballfan's Avatar
    “what do you play?” in Shadowlands to be “Kyrian paladin” or “Venthyr paladin” rather than just “paladin.” I have heard that somewhere before.. in the past... in BFA beta.. perhaps? almost exact forumla. BFA- "What do you play? In Bfa we want people to be a "Prot paladin" or a "Ret paladin" rather than just "Paladin"".
  1. Lahis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by gleepot View Post
    You didn't read anything, did you? They are trying to directly address covenant feedback with new changes.
    They can keep polishing turd till the end of time, but it will still be a turd.
    Blizzard has never succeeded in balancing system like this.
    Covenants will be the great fault of this expansion which they'll admit was a mistake when doing 10.0 interviews two years from now on.
  1. Biomega's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Brash View Post
    Then it comes more in line with the rest of the spells but is still good?
    Well, ideally - but there's been tons of examples in the past where that hasn't been the case, and Blizzard's balancing has oscillated wildly between OP and useless (with a few exceptions). That's what people are worried about, and with good historical reason.

    They keep promising that everything will be balanced and that the real DPS differences will be on the order of racials (nevermind the fact that past racial imbalance is directly responsible for the wild population skew towards Horde). Whether or not they actually WILL balance it like that is another matter entirely, and with Blizzard's track record so far many people simply aren't buying into the promise. No matter how often it's repeated.
  1. OmedonIsAGenius's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    Not everyone cares about the layers of content where people are denying each other. Most if not all content will be developed as covenant agnostic because it's intended for everyone to see it regardless of covenant. Difficulty levels are not content. Covenant campaigns are content and yes, there your covenant will matter... because that just makes sense.
    Difficulty levels are not content.
    Yeah because normal dungeons are the same as a +27. Because LFR N'Zoth is the same as mythic N'Zoth. Excellent point kind sir.
  1. Firebert's Avatar
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    If you really want to go Kyrian on your rogue, but can’t justify it because every guide currently says that the Necrolords’ Serrated Bone Spike is too good to pass up, or if an otherwise appealing covenant has benefits that seem irrelevant in PvP, those are exactly the sorts of imbalance we want to fix, and your feedback is essential to that process. In the coming weeks, we’ll be doing numerical tuning, making changes to underlying ability designs when needed, and potentially leveraging covenant-specific conduits if a covenant needs some targeted shoring up to ensure that they’re viable in a particular type of content. As our combat team shifts its focus primarily to tuning, we’ll be rolling those changes out to Beta servers ASAP for further testing and iteration.
    If you have beta access and are complaining about "BiS covenants", get on the beta and start feeding back to Blizzard.

    Be the change you want to see in the world.
  1. schwarzkopf's Avatar
    Excellent news that the covenants remain meaningful, was worried they'd give into the whingers.

    There isn't any reason to have a problem with covenants in any system where classes exist.

    I'm 100% behind trying to reverse the homogenisation.
  1. Orpheus66's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    PvP stats PLEASE. It solves every problem. The complaining will vanish if they do JUST THAT.
    Thank you for being so high on the comments, please PLEASE have PvP specific stats (like PvP power!)
  1. Omedon's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by OmedonIsAGenius View Post
    Yeah because normal dungeons are the same as a +27. Because LFR N'Zoth is the same as mythic N'Zoth. Excellent point kind sir.
    Literally same maps, mobs (in most cases), and content, yes. Difficulty levels are not content. All content is available to all players regardless of diffcilty.
  1. Alcsaar's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    Not everyone cares about the layers of content where people are denying each other. Most if not all content will be developed as covenant agnostic because it's intended for everyone to see it regardless of covenant. Difficulty levels are not content. Covenant campaigns are content and yes, there your covenant will matter... because that just makes sense.
    It doesn't matter if content is designed for all covenants to be able to do it - all that matters is what people will require when forming groups. We already see item level requirements and Raider IO scores - to think for a second that people won't also require BIS covenants would be silly.
  1. Reead's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Meta View Post
    No wait hold the f***ing phone!

    "Speaking of Twisting Corridors, as we finalize tuning, Twisting Corridors should come into its own as the “Challenge Mode” wing of Torghast, offering eighteen-floor runs at a higher level of difficulty than the rest of Torghast, with cosmetic rewards for clearing certain thresholds."

    Is that what has become of the supposed "Infinite Dungeon" that Torghast was ment to be? Are you legit telling me that there will be no infinite climb mode and that I will only get 18 floors to climb; Then I will have to start over from scratch and just do 0-18 again? That can't be it? There still must be a infinite mode which is there just for s**ts n giggles? Screw if it has any rewards or not of any kind; What I was looking forward too in Shadowlands was to climb this supposed "infinite tower" they pushed so heavy at Blizzcon; So for the love of the Jailer please tell me this 18 floor thing is it's own thing and that there still will be a mode that just goes on forever...
    You're reading it wrong. Twisting Corridors has always been limited to 18 floor runs at a time, to prevent your powers from scaling too far out of control. Once you've completed an 18 floor run, you can skip to floor 18 on your next run and begin there, with your anima powers wiped.

    Torghast is broken out into 6 floor "blocks", and you can skip to any "block" you've completed on a previous run. i.e., once you've cleared an 18 floor run you can skip to Floor 7, Floor 13, or Floor 19 on your next run. If you then begin at Floor 19 and successfully complete floor 32, you can begin your next run at 33 (or any other block interval below that).
  1. OmedonIsAGenius's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    Literally same maps, mobs (in most cases), and content, yes. Difficulty levels are not content. All content is available to all players regardless of diffcilty.
    Do you agree or disagree that the way in which you play the content is wildly different based on the difficulty? Your experience changes based on the difficulty of said content.

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