Development Update: The Road to Shadowlands
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
In seven weeks, brave heroes of Azeroth will venture into the Shadowlands to confront the forces of the mysterious Jailer and discover the nature of Warcraft’s afterlife. As our development shifts from implementation of new designs and content, towards polish and tuning of the world we have crafted, I would like to offer a roadmap for what to expect over the coming weeks on our Beta servers.

Introducing 9.0.2

First, on a technical note, players paying close attention to the Beta client may notice that this week’s update bears the designation “9.0.2.” Unlike recent expansions, this time around we will have not one but two client updates, aka patches, in the weeks prior to the official release of the expansion. Development of Shadowlands -specific content (the zones and dungeons of the Shadowlands, covenants, etc.) will proceed with weekly Beta updates in the 9.0.2 branch, while our Public Test Realm runs patch 9.0.1. This approach allows us to get features like the new character customization options and the streamlined leveling experience into your hands sooner in 9.0.1, while allowing the team the maximum possible time to keep polishing the level 51-60 Shadowlands experience in 9.0.2. Our Beta environment will continue to receive weekly 9.0.2 updates, and patch 9.0.2 will go live shortly before Shadowlands officially launches.

Alt Leveling

As we first announced at BlizzCon last year, while everyone’s first trip through the Shadowlands is driven by a linear narrative campaign that grants access to endgame features such as covenants, world quests, and more, we want to offer players who are leveling alts a much more flexible experience. We have had a version of that experience available in Beta for the past few weeks, as alts select their covenant immediately upon first arriving in Oribos, and then can tackle the four zones in any order they choose.

However, we’ve received a couple of points of feedback that have led us to refine this approach: First, a number of testers felt like they weren’t necessarily ready to pick a covenant right away on a new class, and wished they could replay the narrative arc that let them “test drive” each of the active abilities along the way. Second, even for players who were familiar with the overall story by that point, it felt confusing or wrong to play through portions of some zone campaigns out of order or while already a member of a covenant (e.g. doing the main Revendreth arc while already being a member of Renethal’s venthyr).

In this week’s build, alts emerging from the Maw for the first time will be met in Oribos by the mysterious Fatescribe, who now offers an explicit choice between replaying the narrative arc as first-time characters experienced it, or following the threads of fate to their inevitable conclusion and beginning the journey at a point following the climactic events at the end of Revendreth’s story. Characters choosing the latter option will enter the Shadowlands in a state where the entire narrative Campaign has already been completed, with new Bonus Objectives available in locations that were previously central to the Campaign. Lucrative zone-wide objectives for each of the four zones will provide additional structure while allowing alts to roam the Shadowlands as they prefer, earning gear and experience through their choice of a zone’s side quests, bonus objectives, world quests, dungeons, or rares and treasures.

Our goal with this alt experience remains offering more flexibility than ever before on repeat playthroughs, while also allowing alts to begin making progress towards their endgame goals, earning Anima for their covenant’s reservoir or catching up on Renown so that they can hit the ground running when they reach 60. We look forward to hearing feedback on how the new experience feels!

Torghast Progression

A number of players in the past couple of months on Beta have raised concerns about what seemed like excessively lengthy introductory questlines in Torghast, which at their worst could feel like five or six successive tutorials that had to be completed before players could access the “real” feature. In a coming build (likely next week), we’re restructuring the way Torghast is unlocked, such that players can gain full access to the main wings of the tower after completing just a single introductory run that also grants access to the Runecarver. The remaining quests to locate and rescue Jaina and Thrall will be incorporated into a larger questline that spans the six main Torghast cell blocks, rewards legendary crafting materials, and eventually unlocks the Twisting Corridors section at its conclusion.

Speaking of Twisting Corridors, as we finalize tuning, Twisting Corridors should come into its own as the “Challenge Mode” wing of Torghast, offering eighteen-floor runs at a higher level of difficulty than the rest of Torghast, with cosmetic rewards for clearing certain thresholds.

Covenants

Covenants are the centerpiece of Shadowlands and have been the subject of passionate discourse across the community over the past weeks, which has been mirrored by discussion and debate within our team. From the system’s first conception, selecting a covenant was crafted to be a weighty decision, shaping a character’s abilities, cosmetic rewards, and access to endgame story arcs and sanctum systems. A weighty decision almost by definition comes with some amount of stress, whether anxiety about making the “wrong” choice, or just evaluating various pros and cons and wishing there were a way to just get the best of all worlds.

In designing this system, we’ve done what we can to minimize the burden of regret. Those measures should be fully enabled by next week’s Beta release. While picking a covenant at the end of your journey to max level is a weighty choice, it is not a permanent one. If you find that, whatever the reason, you are unhappy with your initial covenant pick at level 60, you need only return to Oribos and you can immediately switch to a different one. Now, if you later wish to rejoin a covenant that you have left, that is slightly more involved: There is a path to redemption consisting of a series of two weekly quests to atone for breaking your vow and to rededicate yourself to that covenant’s cause. These quests are now available for testing in Beta; they are still being tuned, but the intent is that they are largely ceremonial rather than feeling like an arduous grind.

We have also taken steps to ensure that a player who switches covenants, as well as one who reaches max level later on in the expansion, never feels permanently behind as a result. Renown measures the strength of a player’s connection to their covenant and is the main vehicle for unlocking additional Soulbind powers and various covenant perks and rewards. Players primarily earn Renown via weekly quests to gather anima from across the Shadowlands, and to rescue souls from the Maw and restore them to their rightful place in the covenant. If a player has missed any of those quests, however, they will find that they can earn Renown directly through a range of activities such as dungeons, world quests, and PvP, until they are fully caught up. This system will be functional on Beta in the coming weeks.

In short, a player who regrets their covenant choice, and who wants to change their mind, should be able to do so straightforwardly at any point during the expansion, and will be able to reach a state with no long-term drawbacks or disadvantages compared to someone who had been in that covenant all along.

We’ve also heard from many players who, rather than being worried about regretting their choice, would prefer that they not have to choose at all; they have advocated that we offer a way to switch among the various active abilities offered by covenants without friction. But these covenant systems are thoroughly intertwined: Covenant abilities are often modified by covenant-specific conduits and soulbinds; most of those soulbinds in turn are unlocked through covenant-specific narrative campaigns. Granting access to one of these without the others would lead to an incomplete or confusing result. In short, pulling on that thread (or cord, as it were) would unravel the entire fabric of the system. Even so, we would embrace the work required to rebuild the covenant system along those lines if we agreed that it would be an improvement, but we ultimately do not share that view.

Before starting an arena match, engaging a raid boss, or entering a dungeon, a character in Shadowlands can change their specialization, talents (and PvP talents if appropriate), legendary item, other equipment, active soulbind, and chosen path within that soulbind. When it comes to customizing your “loadout” – the set of tools you’re going to take into a given encounter – WoW offers more options than ever before, and you can almost entirely reshape your character on the fly to suit the moment. But as malleable as those choices are, none of them, other than perhaps your specialization, defines your character – they aren’t who you are, but rather what you happen to be doing at any given moment.

Rather than add yet another layer to that decision matrix, we’re trying to do something different here, and let players more meaningfully define their character’s identity and set themselves apart from others who play the same class. And that identity entails a blend of aesthetic preference, narrative experience, and mechanical strengths and weaknesses. From the earliest sketched designs of the covenant system, our goal was for the answer to “what do you play?” in Shadowlands to be “Kyrian paladin” or “Venthyr paladin” rather than just “paladin.” And given the central role of combat and power progression to World of Warcraft as a whole, achieving that goal for most players requires that there be player power implications to covenant choice.

None of this is to say that development on covenants and their powers is finished, or that we are not open to further changes. Far from it. We understand that when we offer a choice between competing packages of strengths and weaknesses, if we’re not careful, especially given social and community pressures, weaknesses can easily overshadow strengths. The satisfaction of having an edge in one type of content doesn’t make up for the frustration of being excluded entirely from participating in another. But while tearing down the entire system may seem to some like the simplest way to avoid that pitfall, we’re committed to working with the community to ensure that players feel viable regardless of their covenant choice.

If you really want to go Kyrian on your rogue, but can’t justify it because every guide currently says that the Necrolords’ Serrated Bone Spike is too good to pass up, or if an otherwise appealing covenant has benefits that seem irrelevant in PvP, those are exactly the sorts of imbalance we want to fix, and your feedback is essential to that process. In the coming weeks, we’ll be doing numerical tuning, making changes to underlying ability designs when needed, and potentially leveraging covenant-specific conduits if a covenant needs some targeted shoring up to ensure that they’re viable in a particular type of content. As our combat team shifts its focus primarily to tuning, we’ll be rolling those changes out to Beta servers ASAP for further testing and iteration.

PvP Itemization

We have been following the constructive feedback about the range of gear available on our PvP vendors, and we agree with the underlying concerns. While WoW is an interconnected ecosystem of different content and systems and we feel that the very strongest characters should be the ones who participate and excel in a wide range of activities, each individual progression path should offer the majority of the tools required for success in that path. The current PvP vendors fall short of that goal.

We are considering a few different solutions, such as reworking the stat coverage of the vendor gear and/or providing PvP-specific bonuses through those items. As soon as we’ve settled on a direction, we’ll share our plan for feedback, and get the changes up on Beta for testing.

Sockets

While we eliminated Warforging and Titanforging in Shadowlands , with the goal of increasing clarity and player agency over rewards, the question of how to handle sockets was not quite as clear-cut. A certain critical mass of sockets across all player gear is essential to support Jewelcrafting as a player profession, and in recent expansions the chance for any endgame item to upgrade to a socketed version gave players of all playstyles the opportunity to interact with the Jewelcrafting tradeskill. At the same time, sockets unquestionably constitute power, and can be every bit as impactful as Warforging.

Trying to balance these considerations, the approach we’ve settled on for Shadowlands is to keep sockets as a random item property, but to allow players to add sockets to their items via a consumable sold by Ve’nari in the Maw (similar to Gouged Eyes in the recent Visions of N’Zoth update). This way all players can take advantage of gems and seeing a socketed item drop offers a short-term efficiency advantage, but in the long run competitive players can still make steady progress towards a best-in-slot gear setup without relying on an additional layer of randomness. Finally, in order to limit the total impact of gems, and the power gap between players with full sockets and those without, in Shadowlands only Helms, Rings, Necks, Bracers, and Belts can have a socket randomly generated or added by Ve’nari. These changes should all be active by next week’s Beta update.

The one thing all the above topics have in common is that they have been driven by your passionate feedback throughout the development process, which has helped shape the game for the better over the course of the past year. And a special thanks to all the testers reporting bugs on Beta – we’ve already fixed thousands of issues based on your reports, and are continuing to work through those reports as we aim to make Shadowlands the best experience it can possibly be when it arrives on October 26.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Development Update: The Road to Shadowlands started by Lumy View original post
Comments 206 Comments
  1. Swnem's Avatar
    They don't get it. I agree with everything until here:
    Rather than add yet another layer to that decision matrix, we’re trying to do something different here, and let players more meaningfully define their character’s identity and set themselves apart from others who play the same class. And that identity entails a blend of aesthetic preference, narrative experience, and mechanical strengths and weaknesses. From the earliest sketched designs of the covenant system, our goal was for the answer to “what do you play?” in Shadowlands to be “Kyrian paladin” or “Venthyr paladin” rather than just “paladin.” And given the central role of combat and power progression to World of Warcraft as a whole, achieving that goal for most players requires that there be player power implications to covenant choice.
    This is at odds with the game they have. No, there won't be a Venthyr paladin and a Kyrian paladin. There will be a good paladin for the content being run and a bad paladin for the content being run. You are not adding choices, you are adding wrong choices aka traps.
    For this to work devs, you have to break all addons and all first and third party sites that allow you to track performance and maximize it. It is impossible to make both of these things work. You can't have both, it's impossible. Choose one.
    Make up your mind on what kind of game you want to make.
  1. Nuciek's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    They don't get it. I agree with everything until here:


    This is at odds with the game they have. No, there won't be a Venthyr paladin and a Kyrian paladin. There will be a good paladin for the content being run and a bad paladin for the content being run. You are not adding choices, you are adding wrong choices aka traps.
    For this to work devs, you have to break all addons and all first and second party sites that allow you to track performance. It is impossible to make both of these things work. You can't have both, it's impossible. Choose one.
    Just like it's impossible to have 11 classes in one game?
  1. Swnem's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuciek View Post
    Just like it's impossible to have 11 classes in one game?
    Its' not the same is it? Different classes bring different utility/buffs. If they didn't, people would stack the same class. Which btw, was already happening.

    There are several specs considered "dead" or "bad". This is not new. It just results in angst to players of those specs cause they have a harder time getting into content. So, congrats, you confirmed the point.
  1. Nnyco's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by korijenkins View Post
    PvP stats PLEASE. It solves every problem. The complaining will vanish if they do JUST THAT.
    And it will add multiple problems. Not to mention that stats that are only working in one type of content are extremly stupid.
  1. Crixes1's Avatar
    Ima be honest, I miss Cata gearing. Alot of things had sockets. It felt like JC actually had some worth and it felt amazing to socket a chest or pants with 3 gems and a enchant. Like so satisfying buffing up that bad boy. Now just a gem for one piece of gear and its random af. Ugh. I want it to have some value, ya know?
  1. Musta's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpleton View Post
    Can't wait for them to pull the ripcord in 9.1
    completely this. I wonder if they are not just pulling right now cuz they couldnt make the changes in time. Totally possible tbh.
  1. Fawkess's Avatar
    I really hope they can make Jewelcrafting a profitable profession again, Gems this expansion have just had no worth at all besides green and red ones for rings
  1. goldentforce's Avatar
    When Ion saids they will make all the covenant choices viable, I assume he means you can do content with them. However viability is relative here to the other options, not whether the content can actually be done with them (you can beat content with unoptimal builds). If one ability is just doing 5% more damage and the other abilities only bring damage (this is the case for most), the one doing more damage is more viable than the others, and the playerbase will see the others as less viable. It has been objectively true that there has been strictly better legion legendaries, corruptions, azerite gear, essences. You can check sims/progress meters,etc. of these things and see that they have never been balanced. The same will apply to covenants/conduits/soulbinds. It is inevitable and unlike the other systems acquisition is not the issue (ap grinds/rng drops,etc.) but the options are forced upon you. This is equally bad, in these other systems you could target or eventually get the best piece, but now you are giving up an rpg experience and leaving progression in a covenant for performance. Letting people choose abilities would allow people to use each set in the circumstances that could enable them and all the abilities could be more powerful. Because they are locked off by choice, it means all the abilities will be unbalanced then nerfed to be as close to irrelevant as possible so there is no "wrong choice". Whats the point of these systems if they are just going to be nerfed and stomped so they are less problematic and less fun, when if you could switch between abilities can have niche situations where they are powerful and useful (i.e nightfae dk is absurdly strong cause strength amp/dr scale greatly with all the specs, and necrolord grabby hands is mostly a utility spell. If you switch between, situations where the utility makes an encounter easier you can now use, however if you can't switch giving up strength amp/dr for vast majority of content is a poor decision).

    If blizzard want each character to be a little more differant than players of the same spec/talent builds, they should of made a gameplay only subspec system that is more interactive than 1 class ability, 1 generic ability, trinket/azerite procs in soulbinds so the choice is more meaningful, has a variety of tools and impact, and doesn't hurt the story/cosmetic/aesthetic pros of the covenant system.
  1. letssee's Avatar
    lol

    retail...

    10/char
  1. Nuciek's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Its' not the same is it? Different classes bring different utility/buffs. If they didn't, people would stack the same class. Which btw, was already happening.

    There are several specs considered "dead" or "bad". This is not new. It just results in angst to players of those specs cause they have a harder time getting into content. So, congrats, you confirmed the point.
    May I only remind you that the game was more alive and had more players when there were more "dead" and "bad" specs in the game?

    Balance is crucial, but it's not everything, just like WoW has proved to be the case for plenty of years. BFA was actually one of the best balanced expansions in the history and is also considered one of the worst expansions in history. Of course not because of balance, but as I said, balance sometimes has to take a hit for the gameplay to be better in general.
  1. Katchii's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    This is at odds with the game they have. No, there won't be a Venthyr paladin and a Kyrian paladin. There will be a good paladin for the content being run and a bad paladin for the content being run. You are not adding choices, you are adding wrong choices aka traps.
    For this to work devs, you have to break all addons and all first and third party sites that allow you to track performance and maximize it. It is impossible to make both of these things work. You can't have both, it's impossible. Choose one.
    Make up your mind on what kind of game you want to make.
    It's really not their fault people can only see "good" and "bad" paladin based on their choice and strictly on performance alone.

    The problem is that a non insignificant portion of the player base, you included apparently, subscribe to this notion that ONLY the top performing build is viable at all, and anything other than that build is complete trash.

    This notion, in and of itself, is trash and needs to die a horrible death. Because it's completely false.
  1. Sithalos's Avatar
    Imagine thinking that a stupid hashtag movement was going to change anything. LOL
  1. AngerFork's Avatar
    Thoughts on each item posted here:

    9.0.2 - Makes sense, it seems like a good idea to give the team as much time as possible to finish up the 51-60 experience while letting the other items come into the game with the pre-patch. I do feel they should move the SL build up to 9.0.3 at least though. System-wise, I could see confusion coming in from trying to go from 9.0.2.x to 9.0.1.x. Better to give the later version the higher number.

    Alt leveling - I like this setup. I suspect for mass alt leveling, it will allow for a different set of experiences that can be built out throughout the expansion. If done with proper gearing, it could fix some of the weird gear issues alts tend to see in BfA.

    Torghast - Another good change. That tutorial section will feel like a pain on your 20th run in Torghast. Best to just get to the action after completing the tutorial piece.

    Covenants - Not as sure on this one. While I understand the logic behind "Kyrian Paladin" vs. "Venthyr Paladin", the problem is that it isn't really that much of a change. It's one ability which will be judged to be right or wrong. Additionally, since it is easy to swap out covenants, it will be far easier for players to bully others into being a "Kyrian Paladin" if a "Venthyr Paladin" has 2 DPS less on a Patchwerk sim. I respect them for trying something different and I don't believe pulling the ripcord is the right move, but I don't see this experiment working out the same way they do.

    PvP - Not really much here aside from a "looking at it" post. Totally get it. The wrong solution could mean that PvP is the default "right" answer for gearing, or that PvP gear is once again far below PvE gear in PvP. Hoping they get a good solution, not sure they will.

    Sockets - I've been on record in the past as stating that if Blizz could do so without massive community uproar, they would eliminate a few professions such as Jewelcrafting and Inscription. IMO, this is further proof that they would love to just get rid of gems as is and remove the randomization, but they aren't sure how to handle the JC profession otherwise. It seems weird to me that gem slots have to be randomized rather than just added in like they were in BC. I have no clue why they opted to go away from that system.
  1. Pattyz's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    And it will add multiple problems. Not to mention that stats that are only working in one type of content are extremly stupid.
    Only one type of content? Theres 2 types in total.. PVE and PVP. So having a PVP stat would cover a large portion of the entire game..arenas, BG'S, World PVP etc.
  1. Nnyco's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattyz View Post
    Only one type of content? Theres 2 types in total.. PVE and PVP. So having a PVP stat would cover a large portion of the entire game..arenas, BG'S, World PVP etc.
    So wheres my raid power, my m+ power, my wq power?
  1. Dartz1979's Avatar
    when is the pre patch gonna be though
  1. Mafic's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    I guess all I can say based on what they wrote about Covenants is that I am not buying Shadowlands until they decouple player abilities from them. Shame, as in many ways I was hoping it would be a back-to-form expansion from Blizzard.
    That is a smart decision IMVHO.
  1. Fkiolaris's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuciek View Post
    Are you also waiting for them to decouple player abilities from classes? Because that's basicly how they treat covenants and I can tell you right now that they will not change that design ever. People have to stop thinking it's another heart of azeroth or something like that, because it's closer to spec/class in the sense that they don't want you to switch them. They want to you pick something and stick with it for the most part.
    They can treat them whichever way they want, it's their game at the end of the day. That does not make it the same though (covenants and classes) and that's my decision to make as a paying customer. So we agreed to disagree and I am simply taking my money and time elsewhere. All the best.
  1. Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
    7 weeks left, no prepatch date... Wtf?
  1. Ariamis's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    They don't get it. I agree with everything until here:


    This is at odds with the game they have. No, there won't be a Venthyr paladin and a Kyrian paladin. There will be a good paladin for the content being run and a bad paladin for the content being run. You are not adding choices, you are adding wrong choices aka traps.
    For this to work devs, you have to break all addons and all first and third party sites that allow you to track performance and maximize it. It is impossible to make both of these things work. You can't have both, it's impossible. Choose one.
    Make up your mind on what kind of game you want to make.
    How good is good? Proportionately, how bad is bad? How many abilities right now would you consider a trap?

    (For the record, Slaughter qualifies as a trap and needs a redesign)

    How many of these abilities are so catastrophically bad that they hold zero value in every perceivable scenario? Even slaughter, while having negligible PVE value, has some PVP applications and creates an interesting poison-spread gameplay to counter opposing healers and improve self sustainability.

    I laughed at the covenant spreadsheet circulating because it’s all anecdotal, pre-tuning, and felt agnostic of any actual application. The DK one, as an example, is completely ignorant of uptime and encounter design, placing abilities in a ‘trash’ tier without any acknowledgement as to why.

    We were all terrified of the Venthyr teleport being used to cheese M+, but I haven’t really seen much of that during my time in beta, nor on vids.

    The game always evolves so greatly over the course of an expansion (see: shadowmeld), that we aren’t really in a position to evaluate what is / isn’t useful with the level of info we have at this moment.

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